awaiting sentencing phase

[AW2B]

Nel's case was that the cricket bat strikes came first... that there had been an argument and Reeva ran and locked herself in the toilet to protect herself from OP.

I think a weakness of the State's case was that Nel didn't create a mosaic around his theory.

It's very possible the bat strikes came before AND after the shots. During the heat of the argument he chased Reeva with a bat..when he couldn't force the door open..he got his gun to shoot her. The only trouble with this theory..Reeva would have had enough time to dial emergency..that's assuming she had her cellphone with her....is it a fact that she had it with her?

 

[Angela Carr]

I honestly wonder how much of the proceedings Milady actually heard...I'm convinced that she's hard of hearing and that most of the evidence sailed right over her head...

It certainly fits with the deadpan face, and lack of any meaningful interaction with the lawyers. The only thing I commend her for is that she never yawned. Now I believe she was made a judge due to affirmative action, not due to skills or competency.

 

[delilah]

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/03/03/here-s-the-luxury-hideaway-where-oscar-has-found-refuge

Here's the luxury hideaway where Oscar has found refuge

It is in a former Dutch Reformed Church rectory that Oscar Pistorius has found refuge since his arrest for the killing of his model girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp.

The estate in the "old money" suburb of Waterkloof in Pretoria is a family-owned property that boasts high walls, a triple-storey mansion and a luxury swimming pool.

A private security guard has been stationed outside every day this week.

Interesting pictures of uncle Arnold's home.

Is that in addition to the armed guard that OP claimed stood outside his bedroom every night because he's so terrified? So terrified he woke up and hid in a cupboard until Aimee came to talk him out? What exactly is he so terrified of? Oscar, THERE WAS NO INTRUDER!!!

 

[soozieqtips]

It's very possible the bat strikes came before AND after the shots. During the heat of the argument he chased Reeva with a bat..when he couldn't force the door open..he got his gun to shoot her. The only trouble with this theory..Reeva would have had enough time to dial emergency..that's assuming she had her cellphone with her....is it a fact that she had it with her?

BIB - The 'fact' is that OP said he found her phone in the toilet, but as we know, just because he says something doesn't make it fact - unless he's telling Judge Masipa of course.

 

[delilah]

It certainly fits with the deadpan face, and lack of any meaningful interaction with the lawyers. The only thing I commend her for is that she never yawned. Now I believe she was made a judge due to affirmative action, not due to skills or competency.

I think this is one of the other tragedies of this trial, aside from the obvious one - it is making people question affirmative action, which is a terrible shame. Apartheid was despicable, yet SA emerged from its dreadful past to become a functioning multicultural democracy, albeit with plenty of social and political problems that are yet to be resolved. It would be so disappointing if people use this rubbish verdict to dis the promotion of black men and women post apartheid. I'm sure there are plenty of white, well educated, middle class, male judges around the world who've made crap decisions too.

 

[Cherwell]

Is that in addition to the armed guard that OP claimed stood outside his bedroom every night because he's so terrified? So terrified he woke up and hid in a cupboard until Aimee came to talk him out? What exactly is he so terrified of? Oscar, THERE WAS NO INTRUDER!!!

No, no, the armed guard is most likely there to stop OP from rushing out and shooting somebody else. Can't be too careful!

 

[delilah]

No, no, the armed guard is most likely there to stop OP from rushing out and shooting somebody else. Can't be too careful!

but didn't OP say he NEVER wanted to handle a firearm again? I wonder how long after the verdict it will be before he's back on the shooting range...

 

[sleuth-d-]

Wow... believe it or not this is the first time I've seen this official photo !! Imo it clearly shows a tank top exactly like one she was wearing when she entered the security gates. Hopefully, somebody here has a better eye than I do in judging whether this top is the right size to fit Reeva or right size for OP.

Like you, I pause each time I see the words "she was fully clothed" as it makes me wonder if that means she was wearing undergarments as well as top and shorts. (Actually, the very first time I saw the "fully clothed" statement, it made me think she was wearing shoes, too.)

I've never seen a photo of the basketball shorts... only the description that they showed the bullet marks from where she was shot in the hip...denoting that they were in normal wearing position when she was shot.

ty. that is also the first information i have seen regarding the white shorts/bullet marks/normal wearing position. so fair swap

 

[Cherwell]

no mention either of whether 'fully clothed' meant just OP's basketball shorts and HER tank top. no mention of knickers... were they also neatly packed in amongst her fresh laundry???

if she was wearing his basketball shorts, they would have had similar hole/damage in the upper thigh/hip area... has anyone seen this to verify it?

Slightly off-topic, but what are "basketball shorts"? I never heard the expression before this case.
Is there anything distinctive about shorts intended for playing basketball, or are they, like .... just shorts?

 

[cottonweaver]

We've discussed these points before, so it might be of interest to post SA commentator Mr Miktal again, to whom Bystander alerted us and who has commented recently on Lisa's site about the same issues of plausibility:

- his reactions early hours 14 feb are not normal for the truly remorseful IMO
- his apparent attempts at resus were not credible in relation to his own testimony

"Thought I was done with this case but it keeps dragging me back in!
Lots of things about OP`s overall behavior are just not natural or what you would expect if the events happened as he said. For example, all he says to anyone after the shooting is, I thought she was an intruder…..and that`s basically it. But put yourself in that situation. You`ve just innocently shot and killed your loved one, not realising that they had gone to the toilet behind your back. Would you not be trying to explain what happened?
I don’t know how I missed her getting up
I only just spoke with her in bed
I didn’t hear when she got up
Why didn’t she say something?
I was so scared I thought an intruder had some in
Why didn’t I check?
All of these questions are normal for someone wanting to relieve the burden of their guilt/remorseful feelings. Remember, OP didn’t call Oldwadge that night so he wasn’t advised to keep his mouth shut. He just said as little as possible because he hadn’t sorted out his version yet.
Also, think I`ve said this before, but there is really no point in highlighting that OP “had his fingers in her mouth to help her breath” or that he was “praying to god to save her”, when his first call after finding Reeva still alive was NOT to emergency services.
Christ this gutless coward makes you nauseous."

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/09/27/judge-and-juror-vs-a-miscarriage-of-justice/

 

[steveml]

Re BIB - Do you find Masipa's finding that because OP was distraught after the event this proves he cannot have intended to kill Reeva Steenkamp to be a logical and well-reasoned conclusion?

Not at all. I wouldn't presume anything of the sort - but Masipa never said this proves OP cannot have intended to kill Reeva. She alluded to the fact that witnesses indicated that they believed he was genuinely distraught, which is entirely different.

 

[cottonweaver]

Slightly off-topic, but what are "basketball shorts"? I never heard the expression before this case.
Is there anything distinctive about shorts intended for playing basketball, or are they, like .... just shorts?

Traditionally, for men, down to knee length, similar to the photo of OP himself post killing - the shorts he is wearing in that shot.

 

[foxbluff]

It's very possible the bat strikes came before AND after the shots. During the heat of the argument he chased Reeva with a bat..when he couldn't force the door open..he got his gun to shoot her. The only trouble with this theory..Reeva would have had enough time to dial emergency..that's assuming she had her cellphone with her....is it a fact that she had it with her?

BBM - In a stretch I suppose it's possible, but I don't think it's very probable. IIRC the expert testifying that the cricket bat strikes came after the gunshots due (?or in part due) to there being a crack in the toilet door running through one of the bullet holes, was pressed further into agreeing that this only proved for sure that a bat strike came after that particular bullet hole.

I think the testimony about the bat strikes was much better for the DT than the PT which is probably why Nel didn't mention it in his HoA.

 

[cottonweaver]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/213894562/Bathroom-bullet-hell

 

[sleuth-d-]

Here are a couple of excerpts about the shorts from Juror 13.This was written before the photo of the top was released, obviously. I have not seen any photos of the shorts. I don't think any have been released.


RIGHT HIP/GROIN



http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-6/

many thanks.

"• A bullet wound to her right hip, 92cm from the ground. Small 5mm hole found on shorts."

just wondering... how does a 9mm bullet make a 5mm hole on shorts?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9×19mm_Parabellum#mediaviewer/File:9x19mm_Parabellum.svg

 

[foxbluff]

Traditionally, for men, down to knee length, similar to the photo of OP himself post killing - the shorts he is wearing in that shot.

Yes, exactly. Plus even though the style of basketball shorts has changed over the years, they all have elastic waistbands... unlike many regular shorts.

 

[steveml]

That depends on your definition of "valid". It absolutely stinks that he wasn't even mentioned in court. Even if he had stuck to his claim of having heard nothing, there were still questions he could have answered.

But for both defence and prosecution to pretend that he wasn't even on the premises that night - something's not right. You surely must agree about that.

No, I strongly disagree. The whole idea of a 'witness' is entirely that - you're supposed to have witnessed something. There's obviously a cast-iron alibi that he was elsewhere and both prosecution and defence are entirely happy with that. As both parties have no disagreement about this person, why on earth should they pointlessly bring him into court. They're not going to waste time and resources just to satisfy public curiosity - at the expense of taxpayers. The groundwork investigating an alibi is done before the trial commences.

 

[steveml]

I agree..................but

He didn't need too surely!

He stated early on that it didn't matter who was behind the toilet door.
OP fired 4 shot's at a 'human being' and it resulted in that human being dying from said shots.................that's Murder whether it was Reeva or an Intruder.
OP knew the rules because he took the tests and signed the forms.
Masipa and the assessors are toast after this ridiculous travesty of justice and I really do feel sorry for them.
But they have no one to blame but themselves................surely they were taking advice?
Are they allowed to consult with 'superior' minds during the trial?
I doubt it but.................?

The verdict will be over ruled without doubt IMO

Oh the melodrama. Since when have a judge and assessors become 'toast' for making a decision, which by all accounts may not even be appealed?

Judges up and down the country often have verdicts challenged and sometimes overturned - they still carry on their job as normal. This isn't a topic of national security we're dealing with here - it's a shooting. A regular daily occurrence in SA.

 

[steveml]

Roux said exactly this re possible witnesses with an explanation of "don't want to hear their voices all over the world", haha.

BIB

Not sure what that means?

...but you've totally missed the point.

 

[soozieqtips]

Oh the melodrama. Since when have a judge and assessors become 'toast' for making a decision, which by all accounts may not even be appealed?

Judges up and down the country often have verdicts challenged and sometimes overturned - they still carry on their job as normal. This isn't a topic of national security we're dealing with here - it's a shooting. A regular daily occurrence in SA.

BIB - by all accounts the decision may not even be appealed?

Where did you read that?