awaiting sentencing phase

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PrimeSuspect said:
And far from the long jail sentence that state prosecutors called for during his murder trial, it is highly likely that the double-amputee Olympian known as ‘Blade Runner’ will never spend another night behind bars.
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What do they mean, "another" night? :mad:
 
Whatever happens, Masipa and Pistorius have brought shame and ridicule upon the SA justice system. At this stage, can that be corrected?
 
I know that both assessors participated in coming up with the verdict.

IIRC, I read on one of the links here that it's up to the Judge whether or not she confers with them on the sentencing.

I suspect she'll include them in the sentencing. Thoughts?
 
Mr Fossil said:
Absolutely! Masipa (and her Assessors) take Roux's timeline as the basis for Masipa's chronology, without checking anything. Unbelievable.

The Defence got the 03:27:14 details from the State. It was not disputed by Nel. I believe the Security landline call log was entered as Exhibit Q (ref Defence HoA).

03:27:14 was put to Dr Stipp by Roux but Stipp stuck to his sequence and said he didn't know the times. Worth a listen because Roux tries to trick him into agreeing that everything must have been after that time, and then points out he was at OP's house. Stipp says he'd like to see the times.

03:17 is based on Johnson's call time then fit everything from there (if it doesn't fit, change it or discard it).

Is Culpable Homicide really a 'competent' verdict?
Click to expand...

Hi Mr Fossil

I had the same question as you, especially after Masipa claimed in her judgement that she had call records for all the calls.

What does this mean?

Does she have for instance, the telephone company records for Stipps and that is how she places the 10111 call at 03:17? But then if that exhibit exists, why did Roux not mention it in his cross examination or closing?

An aspect so this case which seems odd, is why are the call records for each phone not in evidence?

Or are they in evidence but bizarrely neither state nor defence refers to them?

The only reference I have come across is Exhibit Q which was discussed in the X of Baba, and the exhibits relating to Johnson's notes.

But again this is bizarre. Why are Johnson's telephone records not in evidence?

Or are they?

But if they are - why does Roux not refer to them?

Can it be the Police were so incompetent as to not secure all these records?

Seems very strange.

I can only hope, one day we get access to these exhibits.
 
PrimeSuspect said:


“The appeal process is long and expensive, plus there are political issues which make it unlikely that the state would appeal. Both Judge Masipa and the National Director of Public Prosecutions are government appointees and it would not be the done thing for one to be seen to criticise the other.
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This is true in every criminal case - never heard of it being a reason not to appeal.
 
FYI Australian Newscorp today:

http://www.news.com.au/world/oscar-...-reeva-steenkamp/story-fndir2ev-1227088126803
Oscar Pistorius set to return to South African court for sentencing over manslaughter of model Reeva Steenkamp
OCTOBER 13, 2014 12:00AM

CONVICTED killer Oscar Pistorius returns to court in Pretoria for sentencing... but it could be weeks, months, even years before he knows his fate...According to Dr Llewelyn Curlewis... it is a process that could take weeks and will probably result in a non-custodial sentence....The judge has two options, to impose direct imprisonment of up to 15 years, or non-custodial “correctional supervision”...“My take on the matter is that this is what the judge will order. Our prisons are overcrowded and judges are told to avoid the burden on the community and the taxpayer of a custodial sentence where possible... on the facts presented in the case it could be argued that Oscar Pistorius is no threat to society...

... and there is Dr Curlewis's informed opinion.
 
Judgejudi said:
Jub Jub has been in prison for the past 2 years and is still there. The 2 year reduction to his new sentence is because he's already served 2 years.

You won't know the OP sentence at lunchtime tomorrow. The mitigation phase of the trial starts tomorrow. An entire week has been set aside to hear argument regarding mitigation (as to why he should get a lesser sentence) and aggravation (as to why he should get a longer sentence). The judge will then adjourn the court to consider these arguments and will set a further date when she hands down her sentence.

The Dewani case is not the same. Dewani and the hitman were both ill.
While most are not happy with Masipa's judgment, she has been a judge for 16 years. You don't "disbar" a judge because you're unhappy with a verdict.
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Thanks Jj just letting off steam here:).

BIB.......................its not just me unhappy with the verdict though it's at least several million people around the world and I mean millions.
It stinks and I stand by my reaction to the verdict she should be stood down forthwith and a retrial ordered immediately.
Her 2 assessors should be sent to college to practice legal aid or something similar................in motoring cases at a max:).

As an aside here.
I love and respect your posts and your obviously far more 'clued up' on all this legal stuff than I am.
What is your opinion on :-

a). Masipa ignoring photo 55.
b). Masipa ignoring the ballistics evidence.
c). Masipa ignoring the testimony of 4 witnesses hearing a woman screaming for her life.
d). Masipa ignoring the evidence of the gun expert who trained OP and proved that OP KNEW the rules about handling and discharging a gun.
etc
etc
I think I already know your answers from previous posts but I don't agree that Masipa should not be 'sanctioned' because of her verdict here because she has 16 year serving the bench.
She has made a huge monumental *advertiser censored*-up here and half the world agree IMO.

After OP testified we were all holding our faces in our hands.............ironic to say the least... with his totally and utterly feeble attempt at wriggling out of this Murder.
Then came his 'witnesses' who just made the whole thing more farcical fgs!!

And she believed this BS !!

No way Jj ..........No bloody way.
 
mrjitty said:
Hi Mr Fossil

I had the same question as you, especially after Masipa claimed in her judgement that she had call records for all the calls.

What does this mean?

Does she have for instance, the telephone company records for Stipps and that is how she places the 10111 call at 03:17? But then if that exhibit exists, why did Roux not mention it in his cross examination or closing?

An aspect so this case which seems odd, is why are the call records for each phone not in evidence?

Or are they in evidence but bizarrely neither state nor defence refers to them?

The only reference I have come across is Exhibit Q which was discussed in the X of Baba, and the exhibits relating to Johnson's notes.

But again this is bizarre. Why are Johnson's telephone records not in evidence?

Or are they?

But if they are - why does Roux not refer to them?

Can it be the Police were so incompetent as to not secure all these records?

Seems very strange.

I can only hope, one day we get access to these exhibits.
Click to expand...

She has telephone records for OP's, Reeva's and Security mobiles and Call Log for Security landline (the latter gives unanswered calls). Other failed calls (e.g. 10111) won't show anywhere. I believe Johnson's call time was provided by Johnson himself and given in his statement (he queried its accuracy at one point with Roux). Off the top of my head, Exhibits for call records are ZZn, Q, R, S
 
'She Was His Princess’
YOU interview with Christo Menelaou
May 2 2013
You_02-May-2013_preview.pdf
Click to expand...

"That morning Christo had a quick shower and drove over to Oscar’s house."

WTFseriously?!! I don't even know where to begin with that one.

“Oscar refuses to take antidepressants or sleeping pills.”

Hah, not what OP said on the stand!

ROUX: Mr Pistorius, are you on medication?
OP: Yes My Lady, I have been on medication since last year about the third week of February.

Christo suddenly woke at 3:08 - well, that certainly puts a serious crimp in DT’s time line (no wonder Roux didn’t call him).

He heard three “thunderclaps” (but nothing else, of course) - and waited for rain (seriously LOL?) ... that’s a new one.

“Interview given with his friend’s knowledge”

(Oscar-approved).

“Christo believes the athlete accidentally shot Reeva, ‘else Oscar wouldn’t now be so cut up and plagued by his conscience.’”

Masipa clearly borrowed her judicial logic re: ‘remorse’ from CM!

Whole article sounds like a slick Pistorius family press release (Ozzie’s a mournful, Bible-reading angel!) I wouldn’t doubt that, CM being bbf with OP, that Uncle Arnie somehow had a hand in the content.) This interview with Christo is nothing but OP-directed PR spin - nah, his best bud wouldn’t be biased, right?

“Christo and Oscar have been such close friends for the past five years that Oscar has said they’re like brothers.”

Then why the F didn’t OP call his "brother" Christo (who lives around the corner at 284 Bush Willow) instead of Stander?!!

April 9 2013 cell messages excerpt OP / Christo (Google Afrikaans translate) -

Ek hou j maar net so ophoogte bietjie weet j het so baie op j minde maar noet soms ook aan ander dinge dink. Hi boettie jy moet lekker aand he. So do you whanna do coffie? Of is j nie in die bui. Sorry vir die lang sms weet jys nie lus vie sulke dinge nie.

I like j but equally abreast little know y so much on j Nut beloved but sometimes think of other things. hi boettie you need to have fun night. So do you whanna do coffie? Or j is not in the mood. Sorry for the long text not know jys loop vie such things.

(Who or what is “j”?)

[I have my theory on "j" but I'll hold off - I want to see what you guys think. :D]

On April 6, OP parties at Kitchen Bar and Buddha Ta with tough guy tow-truck baron Craig Lipschitz, doing shooters, getting drunk, dancing and flirting - zeroing in on RS-lookalike Kesiah Frank (who, smart girl, rejected him).

But ...

On April 9, OP spills his brokenhearted guts to bestie Christo via SMS ... who just happens to do an EXCLUSIVE interview a few weeks later ... along with photos of said convenient SMS’s ... defending his poor, bereaved buddy on all counts.

All so much glittering, pre-packaged bullsh#t.

Oh, and btw, Christo’s house was (allegedly) broken into via LADDER in 2010/2011 (per Stander, who conveniently cannot recall if a police report was made LOL) - so what does he do?

Leaves LADDERS under OP’s open windows that day.

Seriously makes you freakin wonder.
 
Mr Fossil said:
She has telephone records for OP's, Reeva's and Security mobiles and Call Log for Security landline (the latter gives unanswered calls). Other failed calls (e.g. 10111) won't show anywhere. I believe Johnson's call time was provided by Johnson himself and given in his statement (he queried its accuracy at one point with Roux). Off the top of my head, Exhibits for call records are ZZn, Q, R, S
Click to expand...

So, where did the time 3.17 for a call to 10111 come from? Did Roux just assume it?

I have to say I am struggling to fit Dr Stipp's testimony in with everyone else's. Roux was reduced to calling him a liar, but I am certain that was not the case.

The more I think about it, the more sure I am that there is some fundamental element of that night that is missing & that none of us has thought of. Something that would make us all go "OF COURSE!" and it all falls neatly into place.

I have not the faintest idea what that might be though!
 
Mr Fossil said:
She has telephone records for OP's, Reeva's and Security mobiles and Call Log for Security landline (the latter gives unanswered calls). Other failed calls (e.g. 10111) won't show anywhere. I believe Johnson's call time was provided by Johnson himself and given in his statement (he queried its accuracy at one point with Roux). Off the top of my head, Exhibits for call records are ZZn, Q, R, S
Click to expand...

Can calls not be recovered from the service provider?

For instance, my mobile phone has a very extensive call log which could be reconciled with the mobile network. Ditto my landline.

As far as I can see - the timing for Johnson's call is simply whatever his iphone log sent.

Clearly this "clock" is never reconciled to the security log "clock" which would be an elementary blunder by Masipa

However if calls are reconciled to the relevant networks - they should be fairly accurate

I am not sure if calls that did not connect would be logged.

Therefore it really is difficult to understand how the 10111 call is timed precisely to 3:17

I agree it has a nonsensical effect on Stipp's evidence because now he must have already spoken to security BEFORE he hears the second shots.

Meanwhile it means the next door neighbours Mr & Mrs N completely don't hear the second shots at all while Johnson much further away is hearing screams cut off by shots!

in my view the only logical reconciliation is that Johnson's clock is wrong.
 
LemonMousse said:
So, where did the time 3.17 for a call to 10111 come from? Did Roux just assume it?

I have to say I am struggling to fit Dr Stipp's testimony in with everyone else's. Roux was reduced to calling him a liar, but I am certain that was not the case.

The more I think about it, the more sure I am that there is some fundamental element of that night that is missing & that none of us has thought of. Something that would make us all go "OF COURSE!" and it all falls neatly into place.

I have not the faintest idea what that might be though!
Click to expand...

For me the "of course" was from the Juror 13 site.

I think Juror 13 is correct that the Stipp's are the only people who heard the first "bangs"

No one else is mistaken. No one screams like a woman.

All the other witnesses hear a shooting and correctly ID it as such. The N's as the closest witnesses awake after the shots, and hear only OP after this time. They hear no more shots. Basically we do know exactly what happened just prior to 3:15:51. A shooting.

The opportunity created for the defence was the fact that the Stipp's mistakenly identified the damage done in the bathroom as shots. After that, the defence just had to manufacture its evidence to match what the witnesses said, because OP gets to go second.

Even then - his timeline doesn't work.
 
Fuskier said:
FYI Australian Newscorp today:

http://www.news.com.au/world/oscar-...-reeva-steenkamp/story-fndir2ev-1227088126803
Oscar Pistorius set to return to South African court for sentencing over manslaughter of model Reeva Steenkamp
OCTOBER 13, 2014 12:00AM

CONVICTED killer Oscar Pistorius returns to court in Pretoria for sentencing... but it could be weeks, months, even years before he knows his fate...According to Dr Llewelyn Curlewis... it is a process that could take weeks and will probably result in a non-custodial sentence....The judge has two options, to impose direct imprisonment of up to 15 years, or non-custodial “correctional supervision”...“My take on the matter is that this is what the judge will order. Our prisons are overcrowded and judges are told to avoid the burden on the community and the taxpayer of a custodial sentence where possible... on the facts presented in the case it could be argued that Oscar Pistorius is no threat to society...

... and there is Dr Curlewis's informed opinion.
Click to expand...

Sure didn't stop Masipa from sentencing a cop to LIFE for killing his wife? LOL

Yeah, clearly Oz is no threat to society ... except to gorgeous, blonde lawyers / models / marketing students / paramedics / WOMEN.

Non-custodial sentence - home arrest, financial compensation to the victim, community service, penalty fine to get out of jail.

WTF kind of "sentences" are those?!

Being held "prisoner" in your family's mansion?

Having your filthy rich family buy your way out of prison?

Perhaps a nationwide speaking tour: Brother Ozzie's Community Bible-Prayer Meetings on the evils of guns (wink) and merits of remorse (wink)?

Yes, his "rehabilitation" will then be complete.

Masipa will smile.

Until next time.
 
soozieqtips said:
BIB - hang on a sec. Doesn't that prove bias? Surely the assessors should be neutral. If the verdict was mostly written up by someone who doesn't believe in sentencing, or rather, believes in 'holistic' sentencing, then they're not neutral at all. Bloody hell.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Tess also said, "Not sure where I’ve read it (may be from your research!) but isn’t there conflict of interest or bias when someone on the bench is so heavily on one side of the case?"

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/...-tragic-night/
 
ColonelMustard said:
When Dick Cheney ( former US VP?, well something or other) went walking around, people just shouted out obscenities to him. If I lived in SA, I have visions of myself doing something similar - losing complete control and going off on Masipa, yelling and ranting at her, if our paths ever crossed.

That's so weird because I never yell at anyone or even get very upset.


I wonder, if I was Reeva's mom, whether I would take the stand and testify about his sentencing. I might have a different plan -- to reclaim my power and Reeva's, too, as her proxy. Just like Reeva most certainly stood up to OP and gave him a piece of her mind, s Reeva's mom I'd do the same to Masipa.

I might sit down up there in the witness box, stare straight at her with steely eyes for a long time - longer than comfortable so everyone would wonder what was going on -- then I'd slowly get up and tell her the whole thing was a mockery, which I refused to dignify any longer with my presence.

I would tell her that participating any further in the farce would be co-signing her bu!!sh#t, and I refused to do it. Then everyone on my side/Reeva's side would get up and we'd all walk out.

Just as I'm going to hate seeing Oscar's sneers and smirking tomorrow morning, now I'm also going to hate seeing Masipa flashing her sickly-sweet smile at the Pistorius clan, at Oscar, at ANYONE - and hearing her soft, saccharine, voice of betrayal.

Maybe I'll surprise myself and, instead, feel pity for her. Whatever I feel it won't have anything in common with how I felt about her before the verdict. That I know. (I'm nervous to see Nel, again, too, but for wholly different reasons.)
Click to expand...

Wow. If only....
Spot on!!!!
 
Judgejudi said:
Absolutely. Tess also said, "Not sure where I’ve read it (may be from your research!) but isn’t there conflict of interest or bias when someone on the bench is so heavily on one side of the case?"

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/...-tragic-night/
Click to expand...

This verdict was cherry picked so that the sentence could be light, IMO. My only hope is that the State appeals and the new judges are fathers with daughters who refuse Uncle Arnie's rhino horns money.
 
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