Found Alive AZ - Alicia Navarro, 14, autistic, Glendale, 16 Sep 2019 *found in 2023* #2

[Ontario Mom]

DBM

 

[Bluebear15]

MOO

as a last resort, if LE fails to arrest anyone, AN’s mother maybe could seek a permanent or emergency guardianship in court. This is usually for senior care, but it wouldn’t hurt to try

“An emergency guardianship in Arizona is expedited (within 24-72 hours) and typically chosen when imminent financial harm, physical harm, or death is going to happen to an incapacitated person.”

(In Arizona, Incapacitated person includes any person who is impaired by reason of mental illness, mental deficiency, mental disorder)

AN recently moved to a dangerous native reservation known for violent crimes, so one could Argue there is imminent physical harm exacerbated by her vulnerabilities, lack of proper education, lack of medical care, etc.


If emergency guardianship arguments fail, she can then try to file for permanent guardianship:

“A permanent guardianship will be granted if the ward is still unable to take care of themselves and there is no reasonable objection to not granting the guardianship.”

She isn't incapacitated though. People can't be effectively sectioned just because you don't like their decisions. <modsnip - off topic> Jmo, imo, moo!!

 

[MissLaura]

I think the most likely scenario here is that these two haven't been together this whole time.

I would be shocked if they haven't been together the whole 4 years. I think this man is the one who groomed her and who she had been talking with that night. MOO.

 

[MiamiGuy50]

I was thinking her lack of dental care could help with that. But if she is able to get all her paperwork to legally work, maybe she will get medical and dental. I am hoping a witnesses have come forward and they can get a solid timeline on this.

That’s exactly what I was thinking. The dental work is basic medical care being neglected.

 

[MiamiGuy50]

She isn't incapacitated though. People can't be effectively sectioned just because you don't like their decisions. <modsnip - off topic> Jmo, imo, moo!!

In Arizona, someone incapacitated includes someone with a mental disorder

If people don't leave her alone she might just disappear again. She clearly just wants to live a "normal" life and not be bothered by other people. Whatever the reason may be, it appears she's not willing to have contact with her mother and just wanted her to know she's okay so she can stop looking and move on. Yes, I know this is cold but Alicia has the right to make her own decisions and to be respected.

She is an international news story. millions of people still want to know what happened, and until they get that answer, there will be cameras and attention

Moo

 

[SimplyCass]

She isn't incapacitated though. People can't be effectively sectioned just because you don't like their decisions. <modsnip - off topic> Jmo, imo, moo!!

On what basis do you say that? We practically know nothing. Nobody except the main players have the case file, the original documents, the full interview when AN first went to the police station, among other things.

The allegation/claim that AN wants to be left alone seems SOLELY based on there being no reporting on an in-person meeting or reunion between AN and mother. They could have long-term plans to reunite (they have mentioned that in passing). IMO that info isn't of public interest or concern and may not be reported on or information given about.

 

[gitana1]

I really don't think a meaningful reunion can/will take place until the perp is out of the way. IMO, AN was a very vulnerable child that was preyed upon like so many 14 yr old's, and then add her being autistic-- this just raised the stakes.

It will take some time for her to realize she was a victim of her partner, and it's not going to happen as long as he's in her daily presence. JMO

100%. Look at the case of Elizabeth Thomas who went “willingly” with her predator. She had to go to an inpatient therapeutic program before she realized that what happened wasn’t her choice, or her fault.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Moo-

<modsnip - off topic>

I think the law needs to recognize people with mental disabilities Better. It’s a hard problem to solve because there’s so much variability in the spectrum, and maturity levels differ in everyone . perhaps give a longer runway to autistic children before they’re considered “adult” under the law.


Regardless of mental disability, I think kids that are kidnapped and harbored for long periods of time need to be considered children until they’re 21 or so due to “mental conditioning” and grooming that can destroy their mind and ability to make decisions for themselves. How can AN make decision for herself when she probably didn’t go to school moo, leaving her educationally delayed?

Speaking in generalities, that's actually the worst thing you can do, IMO. People who are kidnapped lose agency. They are controlled by someone else and lose even bodily autonomy. The last thing we want to do is take away the independence their peers have at 18. That sends a terrible message, IMO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I was thinking her lack of dental care could help with that. But if she is able to get all her paperwork to legally work, maybe she will get medical and dental. I am hoping a witnesses have come forward and they can get a solid timeline on this.

Neglecting dental care doesn't make one incapacitated.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

On what basis do you say that? We practically know nothing. Nobody except the main players have the case file, the original documents, the full interview when AN first went to the police station, among other things.

The allegation/claim that AN wants to be left alone seems SOLELY based on there being no reporting on an in-person meeting or reunion between AN and mother. They could have long-term plans to reunite (they have mentioned that in passing). IMO that info isn't of public interest or concern and may not be reported on or information given about.

When it comes to mental capacity, it isn't her job to prove she has it. It's the family's job to prove she doesn't.

Source: my career.

 

[whiterhino]

Neglecting dental care doesn't make one incapacitated.

Doesn't this also mostly pertain to persons who are physically incapable of caring for their own physical needs so to speak (someone with limited dexterity/mobility). If a caregiver is required and there isn't one made available for example.

What about between the ages of 14/15 to 18? Does it make a difference if it's a teenager who "ran away" versus one who went "missing"? FWIW I don't want to head into the dark waters of what is known to some as abelism.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Doesn't this also mostly pertain to persons who are physically incapable of caring for their own physical needs so to speak (someone with limited dexterity/mobility). If a caregiver is required and there isn't one made available for example.

Nope. If someone has a mental disorder that impairs them, that would be reason for an acute hospital stay if it's acute, or a group home/guardian if it's not. If someone is physically incapable, but has mental capacity, they wouldn't qualify. It would be up to them to make their own decisions re: their dental care -- either go without or hire caregivers to help them.

What about between the ages of 14/15 to 18? Does it make a difference if it's a teenager who "ran away" versus one who went "missing"? FWIW I don't want to head into the dark waters of what is known to some as abelism.

Teens are governed by parents, so having a guardianship doesn't make sense unless their parents are gone and they're a ward of the state. At 18, again, you have to prove lack of mental capacity (it's actually competency, but we've been using capacity throughout the thread, so staying with it for consistency, though it's not entirely accurate). Just making bad decisions doesn't prove the person is impaired.

 

[gitana1]

She is not 14 anymore. I'm talking about the here and now, not what happened when she was 14.

Yes but doesn’t that affect her now? I mean Jaycee Dugard stayed with her captor after the age of majority, for another 20 years. Should we say that was her choice? She wasn’t chained in a shed by that point. She was out in public.

I think the chains of grooming and years of abuse of a minor are strong. And they may affect a person’s capacity. But, yeah. This probably isn’t the best way to go. An adult with a disability is entitled to autonomy and agency.

 

[SherryLock]

It's hard when a loved one is (potentially) in that gray area between being clearly in need of supervision and being fully in control of their faculties.

There hasn't been all that much public info. given about this case since AN has been located. But it reminds me of a somewhat common issue with elderly loved ones. We had one who thought she was doing just fine on her own (she wasn't). But if you push too hard, they can get spooked or think you're against them and cut you off completely. And then you won't be able to assist them at all.

So IDK but it could be those involved are being careful to step lightly for now.

 

[Seattle1]

We know that AN was having nonsensical thoughts shortly before she disappeared -- giving us an idea of her vulnerability when she was communicating with her alleged predator more than 4 years ago.

Today there's a MSM report of a married woman and mother who for one year, believed she was in a relationship with an actor she met on an online artists' forum. She divorced her husband and sent the imposter more than $10K.

I have no doubt AN was manipulated to believe she was being the hero -- saving her predator from his misery. 'She's the only one who understands him'...

Woman enlists the help of YT series Catfished to uncover the truth

She 'hit it off' with a stranger who hid behind his user name before claiming he was Dacre — one of her favorite actors.

'I’m suspicious from the get-go, until he starts doing things that make me believe he is who he is,' she told Catfished.

The real-life Dacre has been in a relationship with his model girlfriend Liv Pollock for six years, but the person she was speaking with claimed they were unhappy.

'He was venting to me after a few months about his partner, saying she is very controlling of him. He doesn't get to do the things he wants to do. She's always there. She's always got to supervise,' she recalled. 'I kind of empathize with that because my ex-husband was that way.'

After months of talking, McKala's 'Dacre' admitted to having feelings for her and asked her to be his girlfriend.

 

[Bluebear15]

In Arizona, someone incapacitated includes someone with a mental disorder

She is an international news story. millions of people still want to know what happened, and until they get that answer, there will be cameras and attention

Moo

Autism by itself isn't a mental disorder, and certainly not a condition that anyone would be sectioned under. You just don't like her decisions so want to take her rights away. That's not morally correct imo. Jmo, moo.

What is autism?

Find out what autism is and how it affects people.

www.nhs.uk

 

[Maat99]

Autism by itself isn't a mental disorder, and certainly not a condition that anyone would be sectioned under. You just don't like her decisions so want to take her rights away. That's not morally correct imo. Jmo, moo.

What is autism?

Find out what autism is and how it affects people.

www.nhs.uk

I agree with everything you said except I would really really want some confirmation that she is in fact making decisions freely and not based on threats or manipulation. And that has nothing to do with autism. There are just too many cases where victims stay with captors because they are terrorized or otherwise manipulated into believing that is their only choice.
I could not leave my daughter to the possibility of that fate and if I had to, I would sacrifice my relationship with her to prevent it.
Worst case she separates from her groomer/partner/whatever for a few months, has some therapy with a neutral third party to process events, and can choose to go right back to him. Moo

 

[Kittybunny]

There are a lot of gray areas in this case, and one can certainly put themselves in the position of a mother and want to go in and find a way to force Alicia to come home and rescue her immediately. However, the answer of how to help Alicia, in my opinion, is not to overly focus on her. She did not commit a crime. As @BeginnerSleuther points out, she should not be punished for "bad decisions" - especially if those were and may not be of her own making.

I believe it is best to let the investigation play out. If this guy she is with did indeed commit a crime by grooming her when she was a minor and luring her away from those who have legal custody, he is the criminal and should be brought to justice. Once he is arrested, Alicia can then perhaps make different decisions, but it may not happen in the timetable we think it should.

Either way, I pray Alicia is safe - physically and mentally.

 

[Lusitana]

Not getting dental services doesn't qualify, in my opinion, as a justification to put an adult under a conservatorship. Dental services are expensive.

LE can't do much besides investigating in order to find out if her current partner did in fact aid her in running away, other than that, she's an adult and should be free to live her life however she sees fit.

Diminishing Alicia and her wants and needs is, in my opinion, heartbreaking. If this man didn't do anything wrong, they should be left alone. By all accounts, she has a partner, is being surrounded by that partener's family and wants to live a "normal" life by getting a job and a driver's license.

Following them around, taking pictures of them and posting them for all to see, exposing someone who might be innocent in all of this and making their location public is inappropriate and I'm appalled at LE for not advising the media to stay clear of them.

 

[Teche]

LE must have accomplished a forensics search on the family’s Internet and phones. AN’s phone should be a shared account. Doesn't the FBI & LE not know who she communicated with.