So frustrating, but at least he won’t get out of prison for a while. What a nightmare for AN and her family. It will probably take years for her to recover.
I still can’t believe some people thought AM wasn’t a victim.
Found Alive AZ - Alicia Navarro, 14, autistic, Glendale, 16 Sep 2019 *found in 2023* #2
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I still can’t believe some people thought AM wasn’t a victim.
whiterhino
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JMO I think that in order for charges to be laid, the burden would've fallen on ANs shoulders to disclose whatever went on. Victims have rights, up to and including whether they want to press charges or not. Whatever AN chooses is her choice and at the end of the day, I just wish them well and all the best for the future.
Perhaps there should be a new thread for updates on ED that is separate from ANs name? JMO.
ChatteringBirds
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I don't know that a victim who is a minor can just decide not to press charges, and the abuser gets away with it. But she could choose whether to cooperate, and maybe they are respecting her need to heal right now and looking for other ways to keep him locked-up. All IMO only.
whiterhino
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Yes I thought twice after my post but couldn't edit it! Sometimes things are beyond the control of the victim where LE have the authority/obligation to press charges regardless. I am not sure of the details surrounding why LE have not investigated it further to know if ED was involved in luring or abducting AN. I am sure it has a lot to do with the circumstances and victims rights as well. JMO.
loveplace
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I think this becomes a much more complicated question in this case because the victim is an adult now who has more solidified rights now. Jmo
SherryLock
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This is all in general terms, and may not apply to this case at all.
But first, I don't think a victim can be forced to cooperate. It's also possible that a victim does cooperate but the suspect/s can't be identified/located or is deceased, or LE doesn't think they have enough proof for charges to stick. And even with unsolved murders and currently missing, endangered minors, when there are no more leads for LE to go on at the time, they have to stop.
It's also possible that if a minor found home life unbearable or wanted to leave for a love interest or whatever, that they would not view whoever assisted them as a criminal but rather sees them as a friend/s, protector or past love interest and would not want to turn them in. They may see it that way just at their current young age, or forever. Just saying, legalities and how people feel about situations or people in their life are not always the same.
Just one example here, say a fifteen-year-old had decided to run off with her eighteen-year-old boyfriend, then she moved on to some other guy when she was eighteen (and if the new guy turned out to be a p*d*phile, that could be unrelated). Say she's now 19 or 20 and doesn't want to tell on her original boyfriend. Even though I doubt many people would think that, or similar scenarios, were okay, I could see why LE might decide to just drop it. MOO
But first, I don't think a victim can be forced to cooperate. It's also possible that a victim does cooperate but the suspect/s can't be identified/located or is deceased, or LE doesn't think they have enough proof for charges to stick. And even with unsolved murders and currently missing, endangered minors, when there are no more leads for LE to go on at the time, they have to stop.
It's also possible that if a minor found home life unbearable or wanted to leave for a love interest or whatever, that they would not view whoever assisted them as a criminal but rather sees them as a friend/s, protector or past love interest and would not want to turn them in. They may see it that way just at their current young age, or forever. Just saying, legalities and how people feel about situations or people in their life are not always the same.
Just one example here, say a fifteen-year-old had decided to run off with her eighteen-year-old boyfriend, then she moved on to some other guy when she was eighteen (and if the new guy turned out to be a p*d*phile, that could be unrelated). Say she's now 19 or 20 and doesn't want to tell on her original boyfriend. Even though I doubt many people would think that, or similar scenarios, were okay, I could see why LE might decide to just drop it. MOO
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SherryLock
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Double post.
Fortunately, the law sees things differently when it comes to 15 yo girls being lured away from home by adult men.
JMO, LE may have found sufficient horrendous evidence to prosecute Davis on other CSA related charges without having to put AN through a trial. She's been traumatized enough and it will take many years of support and therapy to recover.
In no way does that mean its okay for 15 yo girls to be victims of SA by adult men, nor that they're capable of consenting to such criminal acts. It doesn't "normalize" what happened to AN at all. Sending that kind of message to young girls would be extremely harmful and irresponsible, JMO.
SherryLock
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Please read carefully before responding, if you are going to quote me. I am aware of the laws and don't think anyone would say it's okay for an eighteen-year-old to run away with a fifteen-year-old. I certainly didn't and am not going to argue as if that was the point I was trying to make. I doubt anyone would advocate for that.
However, no, we also do not know that AN considers herself traumatized or will need many years of support and therapy to recover. It is certainly another possibility but assuming it as a given is hyperbole. In fact, I don't think we even know for sure that AN left with a male.
I'm sure many of us know couples who were together from those ages, where the younger one would not consider themselves traumatized etc., especially if not from modern/middle class/American backgrounds, but sometimes even then. I can think of three such couples off the top of my head, in fact. Fifteen is far from adult in our advanced society but also not a small child. Many US fifteen-year-olds date and have part-time jobs, for example. A fortunately much smaller number are married and/or are parents.
So if there's no coercion, the issue imo is more that a young person's life choices can be made or cut off before they have the maturity and life experience to choose well (especially in our modern, middle class, advanced society).
There's the possible additional issue for investigation, of why someone would want to leave home at such a young age, assuming they left voluntarily.
All in general terms here. We know so little about this case for sure that I wouldn't even speculate. Certainly don't want to argue or get into self-righteousness. MOO
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whiterhino
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RBBM This may also have been an attempt by LE to seize EDs' devices and take a deeper dive. JMO.
We don't know what transpired the night AN "ran away". It's possible that it was not a child luring/abduction situation. Maybe ED didn't have anything to do with AN leaving home that night. It still doesn't answer the question of "where the heck was Alicia for the past 3-4 years?!" !! I know it's none of our business but I also cannot help but wonder and hope that at least one other person of authority knows what actually happened. Otherwise I don't see how LE could have arrived at this juncture. JMO.
I also think it's very possible that AN wasn't lured by ED. We know she ended up with him at some point, BUT so far LE hasn't been able to establish that he was the one she ran away to be with or that he got her from AZ to MT.
SherryLock
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I agree. We really just don't know where she was from age nearly fifteen to legal adult age eighteen.
When a teenager goes missing, where they are could range from hiding out with a relative, to hiding out with a friend's parent or other adult who thought they were playing good Samaritan or just wanted a free live-in nanny, to running off with an inappropriate-age boyfriend (or appropriate-aged with an overly permissive parent), to something far darker than any of the above.
Who knows, maybe one day she will tell her story. Of course, we aren't owed any information and victim and family wishes come first by miles. But sometimes I do come to feel a bit invested, especially when a case goes on for a long time.
whiterhino
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JMO I think it could be the fact that AN came forward as an adult which made questioning her a bit more difficult for LE to work around. Also possibly the fact that any potential evidence such as devices were probably long gone by then, making it harder to trace the past.
The one thing that has always been a red flag with regard to ANs level of care and safety during that period: Her braces. They were not maintained properly and as much as maybe that was partly a choice (?) I cannot help but wonder about the level of discomfort that must have brought about, nevermind if it will have a long term/negative impact down the road. This will always be the one thing that nags at me and makes me wonder. JMHO.
SherryLock
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Now I'm wondering how do-able it would be to get any dental or medical care as/for a minor without getting caught. I'm thinking not very do-able? If I recall correctly, don't they want a driver's license or ID even if you pay in cash?
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whiterhino
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JMO I have no idea... It's just something that IMO would have been attended to if AN had not been away from home. Whether it became problematic or not, it still raises a lot of questions about what went on in those missing years
JMO.
loveplace
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In my experience, I have found orthodontists to be unwilling to do anything with another doctor's orthodontic work even with ID and insurance for a variety of reasons either financial or malpractice related. They tell you to return to the doctor who put them on. Jmo.JMO I have no idea... It's just something that IMO would have been attended to if AN had not been away from home. Whether it became problematic or not, it still raises a lot of questions about what went on in those missing years
whiterhino
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I cannot imagine either AN or anyone she was with would have attempted to be seen by a doctor etc. It just seems like the kind of thing that could've presented an issue at some point. JMO.
loveplace
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I agree but even if she had, she likely would have been turned away for unrelated reasons. Jmo.
SherryLock
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atomicsciencegal
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I really don’t think she had my dental care at all during that time. When she was first found and they interviewed the neighbours, everyone remarked on her very very bad dental hygiene. Like ‘immediately noticeable and one of the first things anyone remarked on’ level of severe. (I know I’ve posted about this exact topic before, sorry to be a bore, lol).