AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #11

[Kamille]

Actually, LE has come out and said EJ did NOT go to Victoria. What they have NOT said is that EJ's phone did not go to Victoria. Nor has LE confirmed whether or not they have EJ's phone. The pics came from a camera.... so I'm thinking they don't have EJ's phone.

Yami is a reporter out of the San Antonio area. Did you see Steadfast's response? LOL

As far as the phone goes - it has to be determined if EJ deliberately sent the phone to Victoria/Mexico to throw everyone off the trail or if the phone was accidently sent with Gabe somehow?

Rumor has it that EJ got a new phone. Any idea when that happened? Before or after the 26th? May help to determine if EJ acted deliberately when she got rid of the first phone?

Salem

If it was new phone that she got in SA, she probably ditched it. She might have even given or sold it to someone in the bus station.

 

[panthera]

Were the pictures taken on the phone or on an actual digital camera? If they were taken from a cell phone, the time and date are set by satellite, and cannot be messed with. On a digital camera, they can be manipulated to show whatever date you would like.

The reports I've seen said it was a digital camera. And that's why I am wondering if she had a cell phone with her when she was arrested.

 

[captdj]

Thank you BeanE for putting my little mind back on track of the main focus here...WHERE IS BABY GABRIEL? Any new ideas WS members?

Ok the last picture can anyone get a feel for the timing?? Is his clothing clean and no food stains? Is he in PJ or daywear.... any natural lighting?

 

[Kamille]

The phony ID had to have been obtained between the 1st and 2nd motels since EJ used Elizabeth Johnson at the first motel and Elizabeth Jones at the second motel. Fake ID's are easy to get here in Texas and ususally cost around $40. No one could have gotten that fake ID other than EJ, as you have to be present in order to have your photo taken.

And the housekeeping staff seemed to indicate she left the first hotel on the 26th and didn't return. The second hotel (Quality Inn) was right in the same hotel complex and she checked in on the 26th for one night with false ID?

Only the last picture of Gabriel sucking on the medicine dispenser has been verified as being taken on the 26th I believe. It was taken in the first hotel. I'm sure LE knows the time it was taken.

 

[mydailyopinions]

I can't help but wonder if the couple of hours the baby sitter was there, if she wasn't out turning tricks for money..
Has anyone considered that there is a chance the money she had and used along the way came from that scenario? She is a very young, pretty girl after all..
Just thinking out loud here, but I do think this is a likely theory.
While making everyone else think she was meeting with a couple, she was out making money to keep running...

 

[time]

The timeline is very sketchy for this time period:

12/26/09 time unknown - LE has some evidence Gabe seen alive this day.
12/26-27/09 time unknown - possible ping on EJ's phone near Victoria, TX
12/26-27/09 time unknown - possible pings on EJ's phone that show phone is headed for Mexico.
12/27/09 11:45 a.m. - EJ pulls into Motel 6 parking lot. Sits in car for approximately 5 minutes.
12/27/09 12:00 p.m. - EJ buys $180 ticket to Fort Lauderdale at Tornado Bus Lines in San Antonio.
12/27/09 1:00 p.m. - EJ boards bus and heads for Fort Lauderdale.
12/30/09 time unknown - EJ arrested at hostel in Miami, Florida.

Not much to go on.

Salem

I take it that it was verified Elizabeth had another phone, but she got that other phone before leaving San Antonio? I'm confused on that point. If that is true, did they get both phones and do we know what phone made the pings? I thought LE/FBI said she was never in Victoria, I don't remember reading that her phone wasn't though. I'm also still confused if any of this is based on the Garmin, e.g., the Garmin 'pings' or that the cell phone pinged in Victoria, but the Garmin shows she never went there in the car.

 

[time]

Actually, LE has come out and said EJ did NOT go to Victoria. What they have NOT said is that EJ's phone did not go to Victoria. Nor has LE confirmed whether or not they have EJ's phone. The pics came from a camera.... so I'm thinking they don't have EJ's phone.

Yami is a reporter out of the San Antonio area. Did you see Steadfast's response? LOL

As far as the phone goes - it has to be determined if EJ deliberately sent the phone to Victoria/Mexico to throw everyone off the trail or if the phone was accidently sent with Gabe somehow?

Rumor has it that EJ got a new phone. Any idea when that happened? Before or after the 26th? May help to determine if EJ acted deliberately when she got rid of the first phone?

Salem

Thanks Salem, I didn't see this before my last post. There is some clue as to when she got the new phone in her calling Logan, but that probably just means it had to have been done any time before that call(s).

 

[OneLove]

The Happy part???? Biopolar? or what would make her happy...settlement/money?

Perhaps a new identity?


Which would represent to her a whole new life! One where she can leave her past and burdens behind. One where she felt she would never be caught or held accountable for her crimes.

 

[passionflower]

lease help me...I just do not understand WHY EJ would HAVE to go "UNDERGROUND"an d HAVE to have another SSN.
What is that all about?
Logan wasn't the violent one..........she did the violence in apt etc.
WHY did EJ have to DISAPPEAR???
What was the plan?
What else has she done?
What was she in to? (crimes)
Girls adopt babies out everyday and don't go UNDRGROUND or change their SSN's????

 

[panthera]

And the housekeeping staff seemed to indicate she left the first hotel on the 26th and didn't return. The second hotel (Quality Inn) was right in the same hotel complex and she checked in on the 26th for one night with false ID?

Only the last picture of Gabriel sucking on the medicine dispenser has been verified as being taken on the 26th I believe. It was taken in the first hotel. I'm sure LE knows the time it was taken.

Sorry I'm so confused ~ but when she checked into the 2nd hotel, on the 26th and under the alias, Gabriel wasn't with her, correct?

 

[time]

And the housekeeping staff seemed to indicate she left the first hotel on the 26th and didn't return. The second hotel (Quality Inn) was right in the same hotel complex and she checked in on the 26th for one night with false ID?

Only the last picture of Gabriel sucking on the medicine dispenser has been verified as being taken on the 26th I believe. It was taken in the first hotel. I'm sure LE knows the time it was taken.

Also ... the 26th is the day Tammi says she lost voice contact at 2 pm with Elizabeth. I'm still shaky on the whole text thing that day. And, of course, we do not know if Tammi could have called her on another phone or if all that is true as I don't think LE have said anything about that.

So, Elizabeth never stayed at the Motel 6?

 

[OneLove]

Also, keep in mind that just because it is publicized that EJ is not cooperating does not mean that she isn't. The wheels turn a bit slowly, but now that she is 'represented', there could be all kinds of bartering going on with regards to charges and penalties in trade for information. Happens all the time.

 

[Salem]

I take it that it was verified Elizabeth had another phone, but she got that other phone before leaving San Antonio? I'm confused on that point. If that is true, did they get both phones and do we know what phone made the pings? I thought LE/FBI said she was never in Victoria, I don't remember reading that her phone wasn't though. I'm also still confused if any of this is based on the Garmin, e.g., the Garmin 'pings' or that the cell phone pinged in Victoria, but the Garmin shows she never went there in the car.

Aye time - I'm just as confused as you are about the silly phone. LE has never said which phone pinged and as far as I know, the only place the phone pinging has been talked about was in the court probable cause documents that Yami dug up. Given that Yami is in cahoots with TPS and the probable cause documents have not surfaced in the public eye - it could ALL be a lie. I don't know.

As for the second phone - I do not believe that has been confirmed..... at this point it is still rumor, but it does make some sense if the Victoria pings are true. LE has confirmed that EJ WAS NOT in Victoria. I assume they confirmed that through the Garmin? I don't know.

Salem

 

[Blue Ridge]

inso many ways this sounds like kc anthony! self absorbed.......

It does seem like it in a lot of ways :-( I followed Caylee's case closely too but like someone's signature here says (sorry can't remember who)...I too felt that Caylee was no longer w/ us from the minute I heard Cindy make the comment about the smell in the car. With Gabriel it is so different because there is a possibility he is alive and well somewhere. But the more time that goes by it is getting more and more discouraging :-(

 

[OneLove]

lease help me...I just do not understand ...
<snipped>
Girls adopt babies out everyday and don't go UNDRGROUND or change their SSN's????

But they are most probably not Borderline Personlity Disordered or Bipolar either.

Borderline is usually caused by an overriding feeling of abandonment at a young age when children are particularly helpless and vulnerable.

As adults, they soooo over-react to anything that happens that can "translate" internally as being abandoned again. I think EJ went over the edge when Logan began to legally insure his relationship with his son. She probably took it as an "abandonment" of her.

I absolutely feel he did the right thing. I so feel for him at this time. Mental illness is a hard hard thing for families to deal with. Mothers of very young children with mental illness is a nightmare to deal with.

 

[time]

The Happy part???? Biopolar? or what would make her happy...settlement/money?

Another confusing point as the babysitter says she returned all happy, but was arguing on the phone with someone when she came in. If Elizabeth was upset when she left because the babysitter was late, it seems obvious she would probably be happier than that when she returned.... I think that is all a wash as far as emotions. What we did get out of it is a time frame and that LE interviewed Elizabeth's grandmother and that was not her on the phone (According to the grandma)

 

[Prof]

Actually, LE has come out and said EJ did NOT go to Victoria. What they have NOT said is that EJ's phone did not go to Victoria. Nor has LE confirmed whether or not they have EJ's phone. The pics came from a camera.... so I'm thinking they don't have EJ's phone.

Yami is a reporter out of the San Antonio area. Did you see Steadfast's response? LOL

As far as the phone goes - it has to be determined if EJ deliberately sent the phone to Victoria/Mexico to throw everyone off the trail or if the phone was accidently sent with Gabe somehow?

Rumor has it that EJ got a new phone. Any idea when that happened? Before or after the 26th? May help to determine if EJ acted deliberately when she got rid of the first phone?

Salem

BBM There has been speculation but I don't believe a date came with that rumor of a new cell phone in San Antonio (from a non-friend of LM who says he/she emailed him and LM emailed that information back--the WS post has since been deleted by the author of that post) As far as I remember the post did not come with a time frame --

but I would guess it was before or on the 26th, not after because it was reported (in court docs) that LM discovered EJ was in SA on the 26 or 27 and notified LE -- they located her whereabouts in TX, but FOUND her in FL

 

[time]

Aye time - I'm just as confused as you are about the silly phone. LE has never said which phone pinged and as far as I know, the only place the phone pinging has been talked about was in the court probable cause documents that Yami dug up. Given that Yami is in cahoots with TPS and the probable cause documents have not surfaced in the public eye - it could ALL be a lie. I don't know.

As for the second phone - I do not believe that has been confirmed..... at this point it is still rumor, but it does make some sense if the Victoria pings are true. LE has confirmed that EJ WAS NOT in Victoria. I assume they confirmed that through the Garmin? I don't know.

Salem

Thank you... Who said that there was a phone call to Logan and it was from a different phone #... thought it said since she called him he had the number. OF course, she could have had THAT phone for a while by that point??? I don't remember if anything was said about Tammi having to get a different number for her? or am I wrong


SO I guess there are two possibilities for Victoria pings (or 3), but we can be pretty sure Elizabeth was not there since that is one of the very few things LE has addressed as fact (probably meaning her car was never there or it has something to do with who was called on that phone - makes me wonder if she gave it to the babysitter as payment?).

 

[trudysplace]

lease help me...I just do not understand WHY EJ would HAVE to go "UNDERGROUND"an d HAVE to have another SSN.
What is that all about?
Logan wasn't the violent one..........she did the violence in apt etc.
WHY did EJ have to DISAPPEAR???
What was the plan?
What else has she done?
What was she in to? (crimes)
Girls adopt babies out everyday and don't go UNDRGROUND or change their SSN's????

It is apparent EJ did not want to be found, i.e. for Logan to have ability to care for GJ. If I were to put myself in her shoes, in order to go underground I would have to rid myself of any and all things which could be traced. In order to get a new identity, I would need a new ID and, if I wanted to get employment, I would need a SS card. If I needed a quick fix for money, I could also hook. No paperwork required. However, the baby would pose a problem...Logan will not sign adoption papers and I am told that he has already been granted full custody and the AZ police want to talk to me. Therefore, I cannot legally have the baby adopted and would be forced to illegally give the baby to someone or do something as drastic as to getting rid of the baby by my own hands.

Let us all pray that she did not go to that extreme. Let's keep focused and find GABRIEL!

 

[OneLove]

It has appeared to me from the beginning that Tammi believes that EJ killed Gabriel and has been trying to distance herself from any conspiracy charges stemming from that, even at the risk of looking like she may have helped EJ to give Gabriel away.
Remember in that first interview when EJ said she didn't take Gabriel to a police station because she was afraid she'd be charged with kidnapping, Tammi quickly asked, "Who told you that?" (We now know that Tammi and an attorney friend of Tammi's told her that.) Then, when EJ hesitantly answered "Logan," Tammi clarified, "So, basically you were on the ledge and Logan pushed you off." Obviously, it was Tammi who pushed her off, and I think Tammi knows that.
It's Tammi and Jack who kept insisting that EJ loved and cared about Gabriel so much, which was strange, considering they said they first noticed her because she was acting like someone who didn't want her baby and held him in an unnatural, non-loving way.
There's a big difference between someone who loves her baby so dearly that she is willing to give him up for his good and someone who doesn't really love her baby much and wants to give him away so she doesn't have to bother with him. Why haven't Jack and Tammi portrayed EJ as the second type, which I believe she was and which would have made their custody efforts look better? Because they have to make sure that people believe EJ loved Gabriel too much to kill him.
Well, I don't believe it, and I don't think they do either.

This line of reasoning is so good, I think it bears reading again and careful consideration.

It also fits with what we have heard about the angry phone conversation with "the grandmother", who might have been TS.

While I'm not totally convinced of this, it COULD BE an explanation for why TS and JS seemed early on in the media interviews to not show emotion appropriate for a seriously endangered baby whose whereabouts were not known. I always took that to mean that they smugly KNEW where he was and that he was ok.

In retrospect, given this new line of thought, it really could be that they were in COMPLETE SHOCK AND DENIAL and just putting one foot in front of the other and carrying on as usual (in control and command).

I pray for Gabriel and all those who love him.