AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #13

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Has anyone thought that LE may be saying they are losing hope and looking into a homicide, because they want those involved to let down their guard. Maybe they are watching some people and want them to relax, so that they may lead them to Gabriel.
 
Ok one thing that bothers me about lots of this thing..is that is TS saying that EJ said about all of these "facts"? Particularly about the description of the couple...

Is this correct? or am I missing something?

Nope.....ITA. TS is willing to let EJ take the entire responsibility for any and all actions even though it was TS that made the remark about the "underground", etc. She's got her leg caught in this web and she can't find a way to break free. EJ made the ultimate move that finalized her life with her baby but TS needs to take responsibility for her part of this whole scheme.
 
If they did exist, she could get a composite or give a much clearer description of them.

I firmly believe now that because she was looking to adopt him out or whatever, she thinks she can just get away with killing Gabriel because people were "proud of her before" and would believe her..
She lost custody to Logan and snapped. Then after doing the unthinkable, she made sure everyone knew to kiss her a$$ then called them sucka's!

My exact thoughts.
 
Ok one thing that bothers me about lots of this story..is TS saying that EJ said all of these "facts"? Particularly about the description of the couple?

Is this correct? or am I missing something?

I don't get how EJ was all talkative with TPS about Gabriel being alive and describing who has him and with her grandfather her lawyer said she couldn't talk about it? Wouldn't he have said the same thing last week with TPS? I thought I heard then that she she was working with the FBI and wanted out of jail and knew that finding Gabriel was the best way out? Now, a complete about face and can't talk? I hope they come up with murder charges for her. If that doesn't make her talk then I guess she either hates LM so much that she would spend her life in prison rather then bring her son back, or she did kill him.
 
The fact that the Smiths knew EJ was threatening to run and didn't notify Logan or the authorities make them accessories in whatever has happened. IMO
 
But reading stuff into what perps say is what we do here. It's the essence of WS.
I think the grandpa's demeanor is one of a guy who doesn't want to condemn his granddaughter totally and who wants to have hope but who thinks it's possible she is killed his great-grandson. It would be hard to strike just the right note under the circumstances.

Very True Steadfast!

And it's not just grandpa, it's Logan too and that's what really scares me, cause if ANYBODY knows her well, I have to imagine Logan would be #1 followed by maybe her brother?
I have to tell ya even though I haven't had a good feeling about the outcome in this case, reading what Logan said today just took the wind right out of my sails..:(


snipped~

At a press conference Monday, McQueary told FOX 10 that Johnson had a tendency to go into uncontrollable rages. He is certain she is capable of killing a baby, but he is clinging to hope that Gabriel is still alive


and this~

The Tempe Police Department says that when baby Gabriel first went missing, they had "strong indicators" that he was still alive and in good health. But they say now, those indicators are not nearly as strong.



more @link~
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/local/tempe/fears-of-baby-gabriel's-death-mount-1-18-2010
 
Nite all. 5:30 am comes early. God bless this child wherever he may be.
 
Imagining being in EJ's shoes, if she placed GJ for adoption. (I keep thinking adoption because she went to TX,,,,even when I think for a split sec she might have hurt him, I go back to the reason I feel she went to TX and that was to place him.)

If I were her, and I enlisted the help of an agency or adoption professional, and it was my idea to place him somewhere LM couln't get ahold of him, and the agency or adoption professional would keep things on the down low and choose the family for me,,all I would have to do is say, "my son is safe" and keep repeating that until the cows come home. She may have realized that their were going to be consequences if she got caught, therefore why not go have fun while she could, and Florida was the end of the bus line for Tornado Bus. She probably figured she would hang out there as long as her money allowed her to and who knows,,,she might have even thought "if I last a long while, I could get more money out the agency, kind of blackmail them"

Something I also think about is EJ's childhood and family history. She could clearly have attachment and abandoment issues,,can't see how she could not,,therefore she could not bond with the baby,,,and kids/adults with these type of issues will do the negative for attention. When I listed to her jailhouse interview with CBS, it was very clear she "just didn't get what the big deal was".

Just thinking things through. The other night after the medicine cup was found, I kept washing that damn thing out in my dreams. But for now I refuse to believe he is not here on earth with us.
 
I have so many thoughts going through my head right now so forgive me for over-posting.
I think that possably they could get the sentence reduced if EJ helped find Gabriel and maybe charge her with Custodial interferance, as much as I want EJ hung by a noose in the middle of town I want Gabriel found more... I think the only way to get her to cooperate is to make her an offer she can't refuse. If there is an underground network that has Gabriel, they could put her in witness protection. I think its time they start making deals. BUT ONLY IF SHE CAN LEAD THEM TO LIVE GABRIEL.
 
Nope.....ITA. TS is willing to let EJ take the entire responsibility for any and all actions even though it was TS that made the remark about the "underground", etc. She's got her leg caught in this web and she can't find a way to break free. EJ made the ultimate move that finalized her life with her baby but TS needs to take responsibility for her part of this whole scheme.

No I mean everything I hear that EJ supposedly said seems to come from TS...
From what I understand EJ isnt talking to police
 
I think it's fine to read stuff in and make assumptions as long as we keep reminding ourselves they ARE assumptions and that other scenarios with different assumptions also fit. But, I'm not trying to make any one believe what I do, sorry if it sounded that way ... persuade maybe, as that is also what we do

I don't try to persuade anyone to my opinions here. I would never try to do that, or ask that anyone agree with me, or come around to my way of seeing things. Never.

I just want to be able to say what I think, and get feedback, sanity check it if you will. And sometimes it just feels good to say what one's opinion or perspective it, well, just because it feels good to say it, knowing that all opinions are welcome at WS.
 
The medicine cup? I did see the pictures.It was found? TIA
 
If they did exist, she could get a composite or give a much clearer description of them.

I firmly believe now that because she was looking to adopt him out or whatever, she thinks she can just get away with killing Gabriel because people were "proud of her before" and would believe her..
She lost custody to Logan and snapped. Then after doing the unthinkable, she made sure everyone knew to kiss her a$$ then called them sucka's!

BM These words haunt me......what did she mean when she said that?
Did she give up another baby before???
 
BM These words haunt me......what did she mean when she said that?
Did she give up another baby before???

During the interview with the news station, I will have to go find the link for you..,
Elizabeth was saying that people were proud of her when she give Gabriel up before..( I am assuming this was during the time that Gabriel spent with the Smiths)

I will re listen to see exactly what point in this interview she talks about it..
http://www.kpho.com/video/22155911/index.html

starting about 3:19
 
BM These words haunt me......what did she mean when she said that?
Did she give up another baby before???

That is what I thought when I first heard it but then I determined she was talking about maybe her family or friends responses when they first talked about adoption prior to Gabriels birth or when she placed Gabriel with the Smiths.
 
All these two bit humans who've made a mockery of this precious child's life and disappearance need to be taught a lesson. Go to jail. Do NOT pass Go.

I wonder how much they'd be all smiles after charges were filed against them, the clock was ticking, and the media and people lost interest. They could whine about their innocence all they want. Let a jury decide!

These people make me ill.

:furious:

JMHO
fran

I couldn't agree more fran. This is about a missing 8 month old child. It's not about LJ running away from Logan or about the S's private businesses. LJ needs to tell the truth! Gabriel needs to be found and brought home.
 
In trying to keep my hope alive, there are a few shady things that still really make me wonder ... here is something snipped from a few articles below:

On December 14, Elizabeth petitioned for paternity tests. She left Arizona with Gabriel on December 18 in her Oldsmobile with a Garmin Global Positioning System (GPS) allegedly given to her by Tammi Smith. Why would Tammi give Elizabeth a GPS?

Police arrested Elizabeth on December 30 at a Miami Beach youth hostel and found her abandoned car in San Antonio on January 5, 2010. What took them so long? The car was in full view at a Motel 6 for days. Or was someone using it for a few days? Where is the Garmin GPS? Why was Elizabeth's GPS signal picked up in Victoria, Texas on December 27? Why was her cell phone signal picked up heading for Mexico? Where is her cell phone now? The grapevine has it that Tammi Smith allegedly makes trips to Mexico.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...gabriel_fishy_events_surround_pg2.html?cat=25

Missing baby Gabriel was last seen on December 26. Eyewitnesses saw him with his mother in San Antonio at a hotel and a Six Flags amusement park. On December 27, Ms. Johnson sent a text message to Mr. McQueary saying she had killed their son. She stopped making verbal cell phone calls to Jack and Tammi Smith but she did text a message telling them that she and the baby were fine.

On the same day, Tammi Smith friend Yami Virgin of KABB from Fox 29 told Tammi that the Garmin navigation system in Ms. Johnson's Oldsmobile had shown a signal in Victoria, Texas, which is 96 miles (156km) south of San Antonio. However, surveillance video showed Ms. Johnson on December 26 in San Antonio— without baby Gabriel— boarding a bus bound for Daytona Florida, a distance of 1046 miles (1684km). Some authorities conclude that the baby boy is in Victoria. The Garmin was found with the Oldsmobile. Police are analyzing it.

A court document states that a cell phone signal (or the Garmin signal?) for the Elizabeth Johnson was last caught moving toward Mexico. Ms. Johnson was arrested on December 30, 2009. Was her cell phone on her? Authorities did not find her Oldsmobile until six days later, January 5, 2010. Between those dates, was the Oldsmobile really sitting outside a Motel 6 near a Tornado Bus Station off Interstate 35 while authorities were scrambling around for days looking for it?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2576139/missing_baby_gabriel_mom_charged_w_pg2.html?cat=25

(My concerns in bold)

Now these regarding the "Underground Network":

The underground starts with a phone call - from a parent, or, sometimes, an intermediary: a social service agency, a church, or even a law enforcement official.

Once contact is established, and the caller appears to be legitimate, Yager asks for documents, preferably mailed in advance of a face-to-face meeting with her in Atlanta. And also, bring the children, she says, so she can interview them on videotape.

If Yager decides to help, the mother and children are sent to a "safe house" until plans are finalized to settle them in a place where the parent can obtain a job.

Of course, all of this presupposes that the parent is, in Yager's words, "runnin' material."

That usually means someone who is strong-willed and resilient, and with financial resources. Yager often has been accused of helping only rich people, but primarily, she says, she helps people who can help themselves.

She requires that her families liquidate their assets, which they will use to live on underground. Sometimes those without sufficient funds are told to wait, and save their money, before she will help them.

Over the years, Yager's contacts in the underground have provided her families with aliases, disguises, fake passports and falsely registered vehicles.

Before going underground, she tells her families to leave a trail of confusing "clues," such as random phone calls all over the country, since investigators will surely pore over telephone records. She asks for credit cards so her contacts can make small charges on them - again in stores in different states, to confuse police.

Some of those who have entered Yager's underground say they have been asked to leave their cars at specified places. She will then have her contacts drive the vehicles all over the country, so that police spend their time tracking the license plate - even though the owner is long gone.

She will often, during telephone conversations, refer to her mothers as "Sally."

She keeps track of her Sallys by area code and number of children, Sally-609-2 or Sally-201-3, until the actual vanishing act occurs. By that time, her contacts will have prepared the fake papers, the new names, the new resumes.

Many of the people who have entered her underground take the names of people who have died.

People who were born in one state and died in another are frequently used. Since states often don't cross-reference that information, a fleeing mother or father can send away for a copy of a birth certificate - saying they need it, for example, to register for college courses - and then use it to get a passport, bank account or credit cards.

At the same time, her families are constantly navigating through her network, until they reach their final destination - often beyond U.S. borders.

"I can't hide people in this country anymore," Yager says flatly. She may not be telling the whole truth, but certainly, her organization - once a necklace of farms, motels and churches strung across the country - has expanded abroad.

http://dartcenter.org/content/children-underground-4

There really seem to an awful lot of similarities here to what EJ and TPS allegedly did and/or were conspiring to do with what "Underground" Networks actually do. The thing about telling the potential underground client to leave their car one place, then having one of the undergrounders take the car and drive it all over town to throw the police off way after the actual suspect is long gone really made me stop and think. Almost makes you wonder too about the alleged docs I believe TPS supposedly had EJ give her too. Was TPS possible the intermediary at one point? Did that fall apart and EJ continued on with her mission without TPS, keeping her in the dark about what she was really doing with someone else's help? The GPS thing really makes me wonder. If EJ was already long gone from SA by the time the car was gone (and we know she was), then HOW in the world could the GPS and her cell phone come up with information alleging she was headed toward Mexico at one point and also went through Victoria, TX??? Something is very very wrong here. It really sounds as if someone else was definitely helping and involved but I'm not sure Tammi was the only one (or even the most informed one on the plan). EJ knew way before she ever left AZ she was going to SA because she booked the hotel for a week beforehand. There was definitely a plan there somewhere and likely with someone else involved. I'd love to see her phone/computer records before she ever left AZ. There was also speculation on one of the articles that somehow EJ had actually gotten/received another phone ... one that was never recovered by LE which may actually hold all the truly incriminating records of where she was and who she called. I pray LE has looked into that ... leave no stone unturned.
 
FINALLY up to date on the threads! You guys have done an amazing job with this case. Now that I am up to date, I'm going to go read the discussions on the FB "Fan Page". It seems quite heated. LOL.
 
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