AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #13

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The one thing I have never read regarding the underground stuff is what they do when someone conencted gets caught ... let's say the parent who has abducted a child. Surely, they have developed strategies to protect their own integrity?

Yes ... allegedly this lady in Atlanta who has been doing this for quite some time now and has it down to a tee has all sorts of interesting things to protect herself should the undergrounder get caught later. Here is more of the original article on that if you're interested ...

http://dartcenter.org/content/children-underground-4

(snipped)

And then there are the white notebooks - Yager's calling card. Each mother or father must provide copies of key documents - medical records, police reports, custody orders - plus a written summary of the events leading to her or his decision to go underground.

The material is placed in a three-ringed notebook covered with white plastic, with a photograph of the fleeing parent and children attached to the cover. Yager mails them to missing children's organizations and federal and local law enforcement agencies around the country, as a way of letting them know that this is one of her cases.

While she's not sure if the notebooks serve as a deterrent, it's a good idea to have relevant documents all in one place, in case the parent is caught.

She also supplements those notebooks with flyers describing the alleged molester's activities, which are distributed in the community where he lives.

And then, of course, there's the famous Yager "shock treatment." She'll telephone judges and the prosecutors at home or confront them in restaurants, picket their courthouses, deluge their fax machines - all in an effort to go on the offensive against an alleged molester.

At the same time, her families are constantly navigating through her network, until they reach their final destination - often beyond U.S. borders.

"I can't hide people in this country anymore," Yager says flatly. She may not be telling the whole truth, but certainly, her organization - once a necklace of farms, motels and churches strung across the country - has expanded abroad.

The most recent evidence of that was when Barbara Morton, who went underground with her son Brock in a highly publicized case, turned the boy over to authorities in Albania, 18 months after Yager arranged her flight - "although I certainly didn't send her to Albania," Yager says indignantly.

Even countries that have signed the Hague Treaty agreeing to honor custody orders are reluctant to devote their resources toward tracking parental abductors. Some are more reluctant than others: France, Ireland, New Zealand and the Eastern Bloc countries are the least interested in pursuing such cases, underground organizers claim.

Once her families are settled underground, Yager says she doesn't have much contact with them - unless something goes wrong, "and then, I would know about it."

She can be tough on parents who find the underground unbearable, and will cut off all contact with them if it appears they are becoming a "security risk." That's because if they are caught, or turn themselves in, they might name names, she says.

And if a family is caught, they're pretty much on their own, although Yager will submit depositions on their behalf in any court trial on abduction charges. And occasionally, she will testify, although she claims she's such a good witness prosecutors are reluctant to call her.

Yager is always thinking about the next family in her underground, always plotting her next move, so sometimes it's hard to remember how cases turned out.

When a reporter showed her an Internet communication from an angry father who called himself "a victim of Faye Yager's Underground," she immediately recognized the name.

What she didn't realize, however, was that the man's ex-wife, who was in Yager's underground for two years before being caught, was ultimately not prosecuted and given full custody of her children earlier this year.

"Oh, I had NO idea," she said. "I lost contact with that one. Oh, I am SO glad it turned out that way for her."
 
LE just confirmed a few days ago that all Elizabeth has told them is when she want water or to go to the bathroom. She has told them *nothing* about what happened to Gabriel.

It's linked in my posts from yesterday.

Thanks Bean - does that contradict anything I said?

Plus, I'm wondering what is going on since Elizabeth purportedly said she will only speak to the FBI?
 
I have read (If I remember right) that a lot of times these women make false accusations toward their partners.

Yes, even going to court, with long stories about what the person has supposedly done. That would be all in the court documents. These organizations don't take just anyone who pops in and says they're abused.

Elizabeth had no proof, not even the loosest, that either she or Gabriel were abused. Her records all show her to be the violent, out of control abuser. These organizations wouldn't take her.
 
Yes ... allegedly this lady in Atlanta who has been doing this for quite some time now and has it down to a tee has all sorts of interesting things to protect herself should the undergrounder get caught later. Here is more of the original article on that if you're interested ...

http://dartcenter.org/content/children-underground-4

(snipped)

And then there are the white notebooks - Yager's calling card. Each mother or father must provide copies of key documents - medical records, police reports, custody orders - plus a written summary of the events leading to her or his decision to go underground.

The material is placed in a three-ringed notebook covered with white plastic, with a photograph of the fleeing parent and children attached to the cover. Yager mails them to missing children's organizations and federal and local law enforcement agencies around the country, as a way of letting them know that this is one of her cases.


well then we can at least assume it is not her, because the LE would have this note book? Unless Elizabeth's stupid texts pretending *(assumption) he was dead threw it off and the underground service dropped her.
 
I was also just reading in the Az revised statutes. And I think you are reading it right. Or I should say I am reading it the way you are.

Thank you. I wonder why EJ is minimizing her possible sentence to her grandfather when she probably knows good and well she's looking at a possible 40-60 years in prison? Do you think there's any chance that she doesn't know about the dangerous crimes laws and she's truly ignorant or do you think she knows she doesn't have anything to say that would help her get a reduced sentence?
 
Thanks Bean - does that contradict anything I said?

Plus, I'm wondering what is going on since Elizabeth purportedly said she will only speak to the FBI?

Ditto for Casey Anthony. :snooty:

LE kept on calling her on all her lies so she only wanted to speak to FBI.
 
Yes, even going to court, with long stories about what the person has supposedly done. That would be all in the court documents. These organizations don't take just anyone who pops in and says they're abused.

Elizabeth had no proof, not even the loosest, that either she or Gabriel were abused. Her records all show her to be the violent, out of control abuser. These organizations wouldn't take her.

so true.
 
I think the NBC producer went to the jail with TS but didn't sit in on the interview....just there to get an exclusive with Tammi when she was done.
 
Well it appears as though EJ spent most of her time in that hotel room so if she did do something to Gabriel on the 26th in a fit of rage, the signs would be in that room and obviously they are not.

Not if it was a 'soft kill', and if you study filicide, you'll see that it's common for mothers, even in a rage, to kill their children 'softly'.

Even violently, say by shaking him, what signs would there be in the hotel room?

And all that presumes, of course, that she had to have killed him in the hotel room. That's simply not so. There's no reason I can think of she could not have killed him elsewhere. Like a park.
 
I sure wish the little news we had today had been on a positive note. I can't help but think of Logan and his family as well as the family of EJ as we begin a new week and how helpless they must feel. :( The not knowing has to be agonizing for them.


I hate to say it, but this girl is doing exactly what one would expect from someone that has committed a horrible crime and knows that if she opens her mouth, the only thing that it will get her is the DP. IF the worst case scenario has happened, I'm afraid she will never give up the location....not even for a plea, because IMHO she will never admit it what I believe she has done...moo.

So Sad......:( ..such a beautiful precious little boy..
 
I have read (If I remember right) that a lot of times these women make false accusations toward their partners.

Exactly ... that's what I was thinking too. Didn't she initially try to tell LE that LM abused her somehow? I know she lied to them and said he had kidnapped GJ and wouldn't bring him back after she herself had told him to take the baby when he was leaving to go somewhere. Then she turned around the called the police saying LM had taken him and wouldn't give GJ back. If she truly does have sociopathic tendencies (among other mental instabilities like Bi-Polar, etc as some claim), none of this would be above her. She allegedly has quite the lying streak going already and apparently, like CA in the Caylee case, will lie to anyone and everyone if she feels it suits her. I think EJ firmly believes she can completely snow anyone, including some underground lady she possibly never met nor will ever meet.

One of the things mentioned in the Underground article was that the underground woman usually will request a meeting in Atlanta with her and also possibly the child she's running with. EJ told TPS she would "run forever" and she probably was delusional enough to really think that she could without getting caught. According to the underground article, this is one of the major requirements for them taking on the person's plight ... people must be "runnin' material". Seems EJ had that part down pretty well.
 
I think the NBC producer went to the jail with TS but didn't sit in on the interview....just there to get an exclusive with Tammi when she was done.

No... Its very clear on the video that " An ABC Producer was with Smith INSIDE THE PRISON..."

No microphone? No hidden microphone?
 
Hold on just one second here. I went to look at that ABC video from Jan 14, 2009 and at approximately -0.55 in the video it shows that an ABC Producer was in the jail with TS when she saw EJ.

And reports are that this was NOT RECORDED? Has anyone heard a peep out of this Producer to see what her recollection of what was said was?

Heres the link. Again... -0.55 in the video " WATCH: Mom Says Baby Gabriel Still Alive" down toward the bottom of the story.

Here ----> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/baby-gabriel-johnsons-babysitter-speaks-photos-released/story?id=9587297

or Here ----> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/elizabeth-johnson-tells-abc-news-baby-gabriel-alive/story?id=9554084

If I remember correctly, the producer did write an article with their synopsis. Seems I recall some of us saying we were disappointed that they hadn't said more.

I'm not sure that's this morning's video - this morning's video indicated a conversation on the phone over the weekend, although it wasn't explicitly stated.
 
well then we can at least assume it is not her, because the LE would have this note book? Unless Elizabeth's stupid texts pretending *(assumption) he was dead threw it off and the underground service dropped her.

I don't think she was in Yaeger's underground, I just think people have learned from their tactics. Even if "people" and underground means just one or two or three
 
I am sure that this has been discussed in here but I just have to comment. I was looking through the media thread that is stickied on top of the board and saw this picture in there. I don't know when this was taken but the baby looks drugged up in this picture. It gives me a bad feeling. Any nurses that are on that could give their thoughts? I mean just look at his eyes they don't look like tired eyes to me at all:

194354.jpg
 
Quote:
She can be tough on parents who find the underground unbearable, and will cut off all contact with them if it appears they are becoming a "security risk." That's because if they are caught, or turn themselves in, they might name names, she says.

And if a family is caught, they're pretty much on their own, although Yager will submit depositions on their behalf in any court trial on abduction charges. And occasionally, she will testify, although she claims she's such a good witness prosecutors are reluctant to call her."

Thanks.

So .... I would imagine that EJ texting Logan that she had killed Gabriel and placed his blue body in the dumpster would be a MAJOR security risk for the underground and ... the police report filed by Logan would pretty much ensure that EJ would be sought and caught. Rut roh!

I guess if EJ was involved with the Underground she did not follow the rules, placed herself in jeopardy as well as Gabriel and, now is on her own.
 
Thanks Bean - does that contradict anything I said?

Plus, I'm wondering what is going on since Elizabeth purportedly said she will only speak to the FBI?

I think it's possible she has told them as much as she can that would help find the people who might have Gabriel

Sorry, time. I meant to bold the part I was referring to, and forgot.

She has not told them as much as she can - she has told them nothing. I'm confident in contending that she knows more than nothing.
 
If I remember correctly, the producer did write an article with their synopsis. Seems I recall some of us saying we were disappointed that they hadn't said more.

I'm not sure that's this morning's video - this morning's video indicated a conversation on the phone over the weekend, although it wasn't explicitly stated.

Well if she would have got some audio, maybe we could have picked that apart here for a while. It's not like we can just take TS's word on what she said.

I live in Phoenix. I am SO TEMPTED to go down to the courthouse just to watch the proceedings on Wednesday. Just to absorb aura in the room.

Come on LE, get lucky FCS.
 
This is very disheartening. If Logan feels he is no longer alive and she is capable of harming him, this is very dismal.
 
Thanks.

So .... I would imagine that EJ texting Logan that she had killed Gabriel and placed his blue body in the dumpster would be a MAJOR security risk for the underground and ... the police report filed by Logan would pretty much ensure that EJ would be sought and caught. Rut roh!

I guess if EJ was involved with the Underground she did not follow the rules, placed herself in jeopardy as well as Gabriel and, now is on her own.

Of course if Gabriel was already picked up and out of the country..They may still have him and Elizabeth was on her own.
 
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