AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #14

[mamaeb]

I haven't picked up on it from anyone except... Tammi.

And I'm in a snit tonight about Ms Tammi because Sgt Carbajal said on HLN something about all the info out there and LE didn't release it and it's because some people - like Tammi (yuppers he named her) - like to get on TV and say things and people need to keep in mind that those things are not case information coming from LE.

Paraphrased but close.

He might as well have just said "That Ms. Tammi Fay? She's a liar."

No wonder she is quiet today.

 

[OneLove]

:crazy::crazy::crazy:

I sent my daughter an IM to ask her if an iPod charger could be used to charge an iPhone. (Her hubby is a Mac expert.) She said yes, but only if the iPod is an iPod Touch. She said an iPod Touch can also access the internet (provided the motel had internet, which it did).

I then proceeded to search the IM screen for the "Thumbs Up" sign to thank her for her post....

:laugh::laugh:

 

[kappy50]

I am all for digging for info but NG is so drama all the time. so over the top

I dont use bottles but I have read when they start putting things in their mouth on their own thats when yoou stop sterilizing because really whats the point then.
Gabriel was 8 months old and obviously could put things in his mouth on his own. I really dont think its absurd she didnt have a sterilizer there

Nancy trips me out....again, I can only use myself as an example..my daughter got the sterilzer machine and no matter what we did, we couldn't get it to work correctly...we're probably dumb......then we used the stove to do it...did it for awhile and then just reverted to everyday really HOT water...Not sure that Nancy doesn't have a nanny to do her sterilizing for her. She may not. Hubby may do it! Now that's a BOMBSHELL for ya!

 

[Ives]

what if, she had no origanal plans to go to florida? she just came to san antonio, too try and "wait" logan out, or the change of juridiction or for whatever reason, because my brain is fried. **sigh** TS tells her no go on the change of venue, logan is threatening, blah blah, (this would be the phone call with "grandma Tammi of course) EJ says her "what am I supposed to do? Just go back??" (translation- I will be d***ed if LM wins! If I gotta keep this baby myself!) and she tells TS, however she told her (email I think?) that she will just continue to run. and she plans on this, with Gabe.

Then this may be where she snapped. Gabe is crying, she has no idea what to do, where to go, TS knows where she is, she has to leave here, but they will know the car. all scenarios running through her head. Sick/teething baby, who feels mommies frusteration, won't stop crying. this may go on for a day or 2, She just wants him to be quite so she can think. thats all. just a moment... until she finnally snaps(soft kill?). Her plan to run with Gabe is over. he is no longer with us. She disposes of Gabe(I hate that word) all she knows now, is she better run, and run like H*ll. maby a call to LM, before she leaves, just one, she thinks. It serves a double purpose, throws them off her trail, by looking in SA for her. and will heart break LM. She is mad at herself, so inflict that pain on to someone else!! Make him hurt like she hurts! (keep in mind, even though she may not "feel" like a normal person, she must think it is pretty painful.) It is after all, "his fault" he ruined "her life". Now look what you made me do! Type thinking.

And so she finds the busline, sits in the car, across the street for around 5 minutes, thinking, there is no turning back now. she has to go somewhere, the farthest they go, is Florida. OK fine. Ft. lauderdale please!!! Silly girl posts from myspace when she gets there. gets caught.

ALL MOO, subject to change, trying to think like EJ.

 

[cyberborg]

I am still trying to figure out a reason for her to have went to Texas. Right now, I am thinking that Tammi encouraged her just to leave until they could figure something out, so she went there.. I think the only couple she planned on giving Gabriel to was the Smiths, however Logan refused to sign the papers.
I do think that Tammi contacted Logan and possibly told him how to reach EJ or where to find her. Possibly this was Tammi's way of luring EJ back to Arizona with Gabriel.
Someone would have to show me an alive baby right now to believe that EJ would rather sit in jail for 20 years or more than to give simple information on a couple that she claims has her baby. I think this is exactly what makes the difference between a sane person and an insane person...
They could cut both my arms and legs off and shove them down my throat and it still wouldn't stop me from telling what I know about my own child.

I agree. Based on how TPS is, how hard she worked on this, how involved she is, criminally as well ...... this was ALL about TPS getting Gabriel.

I think EJ was funded to go to San Antonio as a neutral place to get her away from Logan and AZ and into another jurisdiction with a new ID, etc.

EJ acted on that per TPS but then things started to unravel as TPS discovered both that another jurisdiction and SS# doesn't work and Logan had the court ruling on custody.

EJ was fired up and expecting to hand Gabriel off to TPS and TPS wanted Gabriel badly given the time she spent with him .... however now TPS was telling EJ to come back and they'd try something else (to cover her crimes).

EJ was desperate and having started this and thumbed her nose at Logan, the outrage both that Logan had custody as well as TPS telling her to come back ..... she progressively went off the deep end and, if she did not suffocate Gabriel she at least overdosed or neglected him to his demise.

San Antonio was the plan from TPS, to hang out there and the Underground was the cover story for Logan ..... until it all went south literally.

 

[JustSomeGirl]

what if, she had no origanal plans to go to florida? she just came to san antonio, too try and "wait" logan out, or the change of juridiction or for whatever reason, because my brain is fried. **sigh** TS tells her no go on the change of venue, logan is threatening, blah blah, (this would be the phone call with "grandma Tammi of course) EJ says her "what am I supposed to do? Just go back??" (translation- I will be d***ed if LM wins! If I gotta keep this baby myself!) and she tells TS, however she told her (email I think?) that she will just continue to run. and she plans on this, with Gabe.

Then this may be where she snapped. Gabe is crying, she has no idea what to do, where to go, TS knows where she is, she has to leave here, but they will know the car. all scenarios running through her head. Sick/teething baby, who feels mommies frusteration, won't stop crying. this may go on for a day or 2, She just wants him to be quite so she can think. thats all. just a moment... until she finnally snaps(soft kill?). Her plan to run with Gabe is over. he is no longer with us. She disposes of Gabe(I hate that word) all she knows now, is she better run, and run like H*ll. maby a call to LM, before she leaves, just one, she thinks. It serves a double purpose, throws them off her trail, by looking in SA for her. and will heart break LM. She is mad at herself, so inflict that pain on to someone else!! Make him hurt like she hurts! (keep in mind, even though she may not "feel" like a normal person, she must think it is pretty painful.) It is after all, "his fault" he ruined "her life". Now look what you made me do! Type thinking.

And so she finds the busline, sits in the car, across the street for around 5 minutes, thinking, there is no turning back now. she has to go somewhere, the farthest they go, is Florida. OK fine. Ft. lauderdale please!!! Silly girl posts from myspace when she gets there. gets caught.

ALL MOO, subject to change, trying to think like EJ.

these are pretty close to my thoughts as well !

 

[CathyinTexas]

said she heard her say "what am I supposed to do? go back?" on the phone to someone

We can assume that was Tammi. She said more than once that they "tried" to talk her into coming back. If she was yelling at an unstable Mom on the run, she really did interfere with this investigation.

 

[LuLa]

no doubt EJ doesnt even deserve the title of mother...
and im sure she said those things to logan
but something just bothered me about the babysitter from her first interview on NG. idk maybe she was nervous - something was just off - it seemed rehearsed. It was already out in the media that logan said that EJ said to shut that thing up
could she have just been repeating it?
I would think that if you were on the run and knew that someone was going to be hot on your tail that you would do as least as possible to bring any kind of attention to yourself. The things she allegedly said to the babysitter, I would think would raise a red flag, coupled with the knife and how the babysitter said logan was filthy ect.
ugh this case is so twisted - i dont know who to believe ; /

I hadn't thought of her simply repeating what Logan said, hmmm

 

[Marigold]

In case you missed it. Someone posted a pic to show that that was infact a tylenol bottle with no prescription. =)
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ-Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, missing since 12-26-09 thread #13

Thanks for filling me in and thanks to mommavi1181 for that great picture.

However, I think I left out part of the information in my prior post, that's what happens when my fingers are faster than my brain, lol.

Iirc, the pharmacies in AZ don't affix prescription labels to OTC meds prescribed under Access. The Access client presents the OTC prescriptions with the OTC meds at the pharmacy counter. The meds get put in a pharmacy bag and the labels are affixed to the bag so the Access client can walk out of the store without looking like a shoplifter.

All this is based on giving a few rides to a friend's daughter a couple years ago, so I may not have it exactly right. I do distinctly remember her showing me the OTC items she got and there were no prescription labels on them, just on the small pharmacy bags.

Sorry to make this all as clear as mud.

 

[BeanE]

Given some of the newer information we now have, I think its possible that some of the things Tammi and Jack said earlier on really might have been true.

So lets look at Tammi's use of the word UNDERGROUND. At the time EJ first ran, they may very well have given her money to stay out of town until they could successfully pressure Logan into signing away his rights.

Later, as everything falls apart and Logan gets custody, helping EJ like that would be bad bad bad for ...well...you know....business...and everything, reputation, superficial appearances, and oh gosh, maybe even some criminal charges thrown in too.

So they simply start saying she had help from the "underground", thinking that was a good way to cover their squeeky clean rear ends.

Waddaya think about that?

Personally, based on the context, as well as Tammi's demeanor and facial expression, when she said that Eliz had used the word underground one time and she (Tammi) took it to mean domestic violence shelter, I believe the word underground was used once in passing by Eliz, and became something else in Tammi's mind.

Eliz was talking about "running" not just to Tammi, but to her grandfather the week prior to Dec 18.

 

[TakeABiteOuttaCrime]

JS posted on FB Dec 22 that they hadn't heard from EJ. On Dec 23rd EJ has an appt with someone and doesn't want to be late. Perhaps because she can't contact this person by phone or it could be traced. EJ apparently got a phone in SA at some point. According to an earlier post, LE may not know how or where she got it. So she didn't get it the usual way by going to a phone provider. But who is registered on the phone number? Did someone else get the phone using fake ID? When she returns from that appt she is on that phone. TPS posts on her FB that day that she has spoken to EJ. LE did not contact babysitter using those phone records, she contacted them. Perhaps there are no phone records prior to the 23rd? Maybe EJ got the new phone at her appt and called the babysitter using the hotel lobby phone after using the hotel lobby computer to find her.

Anyone can walk into say.. Best Buy or even a Grocery Store.. and buy a "No Contract (Prepaid) Mobile Phones" with a number that gets activated at the store. You do not need credit. All you need is some money to pay for minutes to be used in advance.

Like these....

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olstemp...honeOfficeSP&sp=+brand+skuid&usc=abcat0800000

 

[txsvicki]

It looks like that outfit in pic three could just be stained from a previous use, washed and worn with the stain....
His hair looks clean. His face looks clean. IDK I am not seeing it.

To me, it looked stained previously plus dirty from wearing it quite awhile. The neck bank looked dirty and stiff from maybe formula dripping around the neck and drying for a long time.

 

[Ives]

Ok...I'm not by ANY means taking up for EJ..but the babysitter says that EJ left formula and a few cans of baby food. OK, you only feed the baby every 3-4 hours...in most cases...so EJ was only gone 2...so you think Gabe is going to take 6-8 oz of formula and 2 cans of baby food in 2 hours. NOT! I know she is just stating what she saw was there.

Honestly, my just recently 9 month old, won't even eat baby food. she will only eat "people food"(my 4 y/o words, LOL) My little weirdo didn't even like baby bananas. I blame my 2 y/o for giveing her a sasauge at 4 months though, I wondered why my baby was so quite... she was muching away, and I think I had a heart attack that day.

My point is, he may have very well been eating off EJ's food, and the babyfood was for when she was eating something "spicy" or something he cannot eat. JMOO

 

[mydailyopinions]

I agree. Based on how TPS is, how hard she worked on this, how involved she is, criminally as well ...... this was ALL about TPS getting Gabriel.

I think EJ was funded to go to San Antonio as a neutral place to get her away from Logan and AZ and into another jurisdiction with a new ID, etc.

EJ acted on that per TPS but then things started to unravel as TPS discovered both that another jurisdiction and SS# doesn't work and Logan had the court ruling on custody.

EJ was fired up and expecting to hand Gabriel off to TPS and TPS wanted Gabriel badly given the time she spent with him .... however now TPS was telling EJ to come back and they'd try something else (to cover her crimes).

EJ was desperate and having started this and thumbed her nose at Logan, the outrage both that Logan had custody as well as TPS telling her to come back ..... she progressively went off the deep end and, if she did not suffocate Gabriel she at least overdosed or neglected him to his demise.

San Antonio was the plan from TPS, to hang out there and the Underground was the cover story for Logan ..... until it all went south literally.

I agree, and I think this is why EJ was charged with conspiracy, and I fully expect Tammi to get the same charge!

 

[cyberborg]

what if, she had no origanal plans to go to florida? she just came to san antonio, too try and "wait" logan out, or the change of juridiction or for whatever reason, because my brain is fried. **sigh** TS tells her no go on the change of venue, logan is threatening, blah blah, (this would be the phone call with "grandma Tammi of course) EJ says her "what am I supposed to do? Just go back??" (translation- I will be d***ed if LM wins! If I gotta keep this baby myself!) and she tells TS, however she told her (email I think?) that she will just continue to run. and she plans on this, with Gabe.

Then this may be where she snapped. Gabe is crying, she has no idea what to do, where to go, TS knows where she is, she has to leave here, but they will know the car. all scenarios running through her head. Sick/teething baby, who feels mommies frusteration, won't stop crying. this may go on for a day or 2, She just wants him to be quite so she can think. thats all. just a moment... until she finnally snaps(soft kill?). Her plan to run with Gabe is over. he is no longer with us. She disposes of Gabe(I hate that word) all she knows now, is she better run, and run like H*ll. maby a call to LM, before she leaves, just one, she thinks. It serves a double purpose, throws them off her trail, by looking in SA for her. and will heart break LM. She is mad at herself, so inflict that pain on to someone else!! Make him hurt like she hurts! (keep in mind, even though she may not "feel" like a normal person, she must think it is pretty painful.) It is after all, "his fault" he ruined "her life". Now look what you made me do! Type thinking.

And so she finds the busline, sits in the car, across the street for around 5 minutes, thinking, there is no turning back now. she has to go somewhere, the farthest they go, is Florida. OK fine. Ft. lauderdale please!!! Silly girl posts from myspace when she gets there. gets caught.

ALL MOO, subject to change, trying to think like EJ.

Great minds think alike. I think this is close.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[Pondering Mind]

Personally I beleive the Smith's do know where Gabriel is and if they don't they sure are making themselves look guilty, and I dont understand how if EJ convinced the Smiths to adopt Gabriel why she couldn't have convinced someone else and this other persons have him now. Maybe she played the Smiths to get them to help her. All I'm saying is usually paople have a back up plan and I can hardly beleive that she ONLY discussed adopting Gabriel out to the Smiths. I think its very possable she could have had another couple, if its not the Smiths.

bbm~

See, I don't believe that she would only talk to the Smiths either. That's one of the reasons I believe (moo ) that she had no intentions of relinquishing custody to anyone until after she and Logan split. IIRC, she hadn't made contact TS until 5 or 6 mths after their original 'airport meeting' and @ that time it was either during, right before or right after the split. Then possibly realized that she (thus Gabriel, who then would go straight to Logan) could be traced to them and took off for SA. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think EJ even cared enough to look for another couple to give him to, that would have taken more effort than she was willing to make and she took what was for her (and that IS ALL that matters to her, imho) was the easiest way out.... all jmo and what I believe possibly happened ..

 

[not_my_kids]

I'm kind of in the middle on the latest pics. I don't think the photos show anything bad as far as his dress, but on the review his hair does look a little oily. My daughter is the same age as Gabe(actually one day difference) and his hair does look like hers does sometimes right before a bath. On the other hand sweat looks like that too, and if he really did have a fever for some reason, that could explain it. I don't know, but it certainly was not as bad as I feared. I was afraid any photos would show a dead or severely beaten baby.

 

[STEADFAST]

I see your point, however you stated yourself you DONT think she went to Texas to kill him, why would something have had to happen maybe she went through with her plan and gave him to someone.

I don't think LE has found any evidence on phone or computer that EJ had a plan to turn Gabriel over in TX and that is why they are saying now that the evidence that she might have done that is fading.

 

[BeanE]

What percent of bodies are recovered in landfills a month later ..God forbid that is the case.
I do hope that if it comes down to it that Tim Miller will step up and search, I am sure he will.

I don't know the stats on that, but I'm willing to bet there are many more bodies in landfills than have ever been recovered.

Just because Eliz said she put sweet Gabriel in a dumpster, doesn't mean she did. And if she did, it doesn't mean she didn't take him out again after talking to Logan and maybe getting a rush of fear of getting caught.

If Eliz indeed used the word 'park', well, I have this thing about being convinced that people mention things for a reason. Often subconscious. It's on their mind for a reason and it just comes out.

And if she used the word 'park' only *after* texting Logan, in the context of finding a couple there, it may have been alibi building for her having left Gabriel's body there. "Omg I gave my baby to a couple in that park and I left and they must have killed him then and left him there. Nope I didn't do it. The imagicouple did it."

 

[LuLa]

Forgive me if this has been discussed but I just read comment on the FB TS "fan" page that said that TS had received her colonic certification in SA? Is this old news?

TIA

Not sure, but I believe this was learned early on.:waitasec: