AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #15

[TXHOPE]

I agree. That's why it's so great that we have people looking at different angles of this case, different ways things might have happened, so we cover all the bases. It's a real toss up right now as to which angle is the most likely.

It's a total toss up!! One minute I'm so sure he's alive and then next minute I see the dosage in that cup and get scared he may not be. The information LE has that has not been released gives me hope that he is still alive. Numerous times LE has stated that information that has not been released leads them to believe that Gabriel is alive.

 

[Prof]

Prof - How did you get to the actual article? All I could get was the snippet.
TIA.

I did get the full text, all you need is a good library subscription lol, but I think it is against TOS to post the full article in the forums ---

 

[TearsforCaylee]

Sorry to quote myself. But I didn't get any response on this and I'd like to know what everyone thinks. The color and texture look like a perfect match to me. This scares the crap out of me. This would most likely be even more dangerous than if she was giving him that much Tylenol. Benadryl is not recommended for infants often, and when it is, only TINY amounts. I believe I was told to give my son only .25 ml and not often, ONLY when he was projectile vomiting.

I agree with you, New ... it does in fact look like Benedryl ... Benedryl is more liquidy than Tylenol and the red liquid in the cup definitely looks more liquid-based than syrup-based like the Tylenol does. We used to use Infant Tylenol and it was never that clear. Same color, but wrong viscosity, if you will (is that even the right word?). The Tylenol is definitely thicker, Benedryl more liquidy and clear. It scares me too as Benedryl can very easily overdose an 8-mth old baby ... even for younger children you have to be very careful. IIRC, with Bendryl (or any of the actual "Children's" medicines, the bottle says for any child under the age of 6 to call a physician for dosing. That alone should speak volumes. If this is really Benedryl (and I pray we're wrong), what the Hellman's was EJ thinking????? :banghead: :furious:

 

[jessicat]

Well, it has been elaborated on, but by TS lol
According to TS EJ asked them to meet her at a church with Gabriel, and that is how the whole GPS discussion came up --

AFAIR --It came up on NG as TS was making some statement about how she's remembering things in bits and pieces and giving LE those new leads. TS had recently told LE about the GPS because she thought it was strange that it was turned on as EJ told the Smiths to meet her at the church. TS explained that hermthinking was that EJ would not have needed it if she knew where the church was.

Fuzzy logic, or more lies and obfuscation IMO as EJ could have looked up the nearest church on her GPS and called the Smiths to meet her there.
This is when I first started to think that TS gave EJ that GPS-- oh and TS is the one who stated it was a Garmin. I do not think we know the brand of GPS officially.

If I am not mistaken TPS did say she gave EJ the GPS on NG....early on. I think she said that, that was how she knew what kind it was. I could be wrong but for some reason that comes to mind. If I am wrong please correct me but somehow I remember TPS saying they had given her one.

 

[OneLove]

After seeing the side-by-side pics of the bottle of Benadryl and Gabe's pic with the medicine bottle, here's what I think:

When she told the babysitter to "give him more medicine to shut him up", I think she meant it. A person so devoid of empathy for anyone else's feelings would not really empathize with his teething pain, she would only feel for herself having to listen to a crying baby.

Benadry is the more likely choice for a person who just wants to "shut up" a baby or child, make them more compliant, and easier to control.

And if she was having a bipolar manic episode, I can REALLY see this happening.

 

[not_my_kids]

I did get the full text, all you need is a good library subscription lol, but I think it is against TOS to post the full article in the forums ---

Ok. I was just afraid I'd missed something. Thanks. I hate missing things, but it happens with startling regularity.

 

[Kamille]

Well, it has been elaborated on, but by TS lol
According to TS EJ asked them to meet her at a church with Gabriel, and that is how the whole GPS discussion came up --

AFAIR --It came up on NG as TS was making some statement about how she's remembering things in bits and pieces and giving LE those new leads. TS had recently told LE about the GPS because she thought it was strange that it was turned on as EJ told the Smiths to meet her at the church. TS explained that hermthinking was that EJ would not have needed it if she knew where the church was.

Fuzzy logic, or more lies and obfuscation IMO as EJ could have looked up the nearest church on her GPS and called the Smiths to meet her there.
This is when I first started to think that TS gave EJ that GPS-- oh and TS is the one who stated it was a Garmin. I do not think we know the brand of GPS officially.

And to help a bit with the timeline, I believe TPS said it was "glowing". So that indicates to me that the pick up/drop off was after dark. What time does it start getting dark in AZ at that time of year?

 

[TXHOPE]

So, there's really isn't any way to tell what is in the cup, but the babysitter said it was the medicine.

I'm thinking that TS and EJ did have a plan, for whatever reason it involved San Antonio.

The plan was to go there and wait for LM to sign over his rights. Perhaps TS knows of someone there to help with illegal documents, (maybe that's why she needed a sitter...she couldn't bring a baby to meet this person(s), it would raise too many red flags...or she had to pay the man with a "favor"). That didn't happen, obviously, so EJ, being desperate, has to do some looking online.

How in the world are you going to do that much research with a baby? Make him sleepy. Drug him up with Tylenol and Benadryl while you do your research at the libreary (can't do that with a fussing baby) and lobby, making calls on a prepaid phone you got.

You find someone (either on your own or with the help of TS, or even someone you considered before TS), but they can't get there right away, they may not live there. The plan is set, but you have to cool your heels for a few days. You are going to meet the couple at a park. So you snap a few more pictures before he's gone from you forever.

The new couple, excited to have a baby at any cost (jailtime included), bought their own carseat (or it is one they had already from their deceased/failed previous adoption). This couple could be an older couple with no family and a home with distance from neighbors, so it won't be hard to hide him for a while.

EJ knows how to make it without money, finding shelters and such, from her life in foster, so she doesn't have to worry about that. She agrees to a small amount of cash, to get her to her destination. She was desperate, so it's not like she could demand a ton of cash. So the couple gives her a few hundered. EJ leaves her car and is hoping, her previous life, behind as she hops a bus for sunny Florida. From there, she can go anywhere she wants, or just hide out there and get a job.

She's had a lot of people in her let her down, and the feeling of relief comes over her as she arrives at the shelter in FL, so she logs in, and updates her status for all those haters and describes her mood as adventerous, because that may actually be truthful.

Just thinking out loud.

Makes sense to me. The carseat being left in the car was never a concern of mine because if I was adopting a child I would be excited about buying all the baby stuff including a car seat...and of course it would have to match my car interior :crazy:

 

[momtective]

http://www.adoptionangels.com/about-adoption-angels.htm

Also a San Antonio based group.

On this page: http://www.adoptionangels.com/adoption-news-and-events.htm
they announce their latest adoption.
Third under "it's a boy".
L***** and B*** and Baby Gabriel...

This is in their FAQ's:
Are the adoptive families “good people”?
We have implemented a detailed screening process for prospective adoptive parents to ensure that you have the best families to choose from. We guarantee that there is no history of child abuse or criminal activity on their record. Adoptive parents are required to undergo an extensive background check and to participate in parenting classes.
(Thinking of EJ, I thought they were "good people.")

Well, we have all speculated as to how she could find adoptive parents so quickly and this could be the answer..from your link NMK

Keep your eyes open for Adoption Angels billboards all over San Antonio.

 

[TearsforCaylee]

So, there's really isn't any way to tell what is in the cup, but the babysitter said it was the medicine.

I'm thinking that TS and EJ did have a plan, for whatever reason it involved San Antonio.

The plan was to go there and wait for LM to sign over his rights. Perhaps TS knows of someone there to help with illegal documents, (maybe that's why she needed a sitter...she couldn't bring a baby to meet this person(s), it would raise too many red flags...or she had to pay the man with a "favor"). That didn't happen, obviously, so EJ, being desperate, has to do some looking online.

How in the world are you going to do that much research with a baby? Make him sleepy. Drug him up with Tylenol and Benadryl while you do your research at the libreary (can't do that with a fussing baby) and lobby, making calls on a prepaid phone you got.

You find someone (either on your own or with the help of TS, or even someone you considered before TS), but they can't get there right away, they may not live there. The plan is set, but you have to cool your heels for a few days. You are going to meet the couple at a park. So you snap a few more pictures before he's gone from you forever.

The new couple, excited to have a baby at any cost (jailtime included), bought their own carseat (or it is one they had already from their deceased/failed previous adoption). This couple could be an older couple with no family and a home with distance from neighbors, so it won't be hard to hide him for a while.

EJ knows how to make it without money, finding shelters and such, from her life in foster, so she doesn't have to worry about that. She agrees to a small amount of cash, to get her to her destination. She was desperate, so it's not like she could demand a ton of cash. So the couple gives her a few hundered. EJ leaves her car and is hoping, her previous life, behind as she hops a bus for sunny Florida. From there, she can go anywhere she wants, or just hide out there and get a job.

She's had a lot of people in her life let her down, and the feeling of relief comes over her as she arrives at the shelter in FL, so she logs in, and updates her status for all those haters and describes her mood as adventerous, because that may actually be truthful.

Just thinking out loud.

Well said, Kiss! I have been thinking something similar when I'm not on the fence about all the weirdness. I could totally see this happening and it's what I really felt since the beginning, but everyday as new news trickles out from LE and they're less than 100% sure he's alive, my hope plummets and I serioulsly wonder if although maybe the initial plan, if EJ seriously didn't maybe snap somewhere along the way and decided to take matters into her own hands. Hoping and praying that wasn't the case, but I just really don't know anymore.

 

[Kamille]

If I am not mistaken TPS did say she gave EJ the GPS on NG....early on. I think she said that, that was how she knew what kind it was. I could be wrong but for some reason that comes to mind. If I am wrong please correct me but somehow I remember TPS saying they had given her one.

No I don't believe TPS ever said that. She has also denied it when questioned I believe. She only stated that she remembered about it and forwarded it as a tip to LE. Now LE already had the device because they had her car so makes you wonder why she felt the need to tell them that. :waitasec:

 

[Prof]

If I am not mistaken TPS did say she gave EJ the GPS on NG....early on. I think she said that, that was how she knew what kind it was. I could be wrong but for some reason that comes to mind. If I am wrong please correct me but somehow I remember TPS saying they had given her one.

Really? If you can find it that would be good information to have confirmed --by TS anyway

 

[Kamille]

Well, we have all speculated as to how she could find adoptive parents so quickly and this could be the answer..from your link NMK

Keep your eyes open for Adoption Angels billboards all over San Antonio.

I agree and I hope the FBI has been all over that adoption place considering the Beth and Baby Gabriel post on that blog. I still don't understand how a couple in WI ends up finding an agency and adopting a baby in SA when you think they'd have gone to a local agency but I'm sure that LE has gotten all the particulars and the records so they should be well aware of at least that agency and it's policies.

 

[not_my_kids]

http://www.ksat.com/news/1674034/detail.html

Hey, finally a full article on the AAA Adoption and baby smuggling.

Heck, why have one when you can have just about every article ever published?
http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Bondoc_Maria_242082437.aspx

 

[momtective]

Adoption Angels is located just 10 minutes from the HomeGate Hotel.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...9.466204,-98.49741&spn=0.070394,0.154324&z=13

 

[ella971]

Adoption Angels is located just 10 minutes from the HomeGate Hotel.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...9.466204,-98.49741&spn=0.070394,0.154324&z=13

That gives me some hope! Thanks

 

[TXHOPE]

I wonder if EJ (not being much of a caregiver) had never medicated Gabe before. Tammi - or someone else - told her to give him Tylenol for teething. So she bought Children's Tylenol, thinking it was what she was supposed to give him. Accidental overdose?

Just a random thought. MOO.

You can give an 8 month old Childrens Tylenol if the dosage is correct and given to you by your doctor but the dosage in that cup doesn't look correct whether its Children's Tylenol or Benedryl. I've always thought the Tylenol was for his teething, that would explain the fussiness and why she would tell the sitter to give him medication if he was fussing. Not that her word means anything but TS said he was teething as well. Most 8 month olds are.

 

[TakeABiteOuttaCrime]

And to help a bit with the timeline, I believe TPS said it was "glowing". So that indicates to me that the pick up/drop off was after dark. What time does it start getting dark in AZ at that time of year?

I am in the Phoenix Metro Area. I'd say around 5:30 - 6:00 pm is beginning to end of sundown in late December.

 

[time]

Really? If you can find it that would be good information to have confirmed --by TS anyway

Uh, oh ... not sure f I should say this, but maybe most of you remember that someone who knows Tammi very well also said it was a Garmin and that Tammi is the one who gave it to Elizabeth. However, I don't know if using the term "Garmin" might mean gps to a lot of people.

 

[momtective]

Wow, look at all the adoption agencies near that HomeGate Hotel. 9 within a 10 mile distance.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...-98.49741&sspn=0.070394,0.154324&ie=UTF8&z=11