AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #6

[babycat]

WSers, correct me if I'm wrong.......and I KNOW you will, lol.....

Tammi met EJ at Boston Logan airport around June, when Gabe was a month old. EJ was returning to AZ from visiting family in Boston. Don't know where TS was returning from.

They admit to renewing the relationship around late Nov. No one, that I recall, has mentioned how the renewal came about, or if there was any other contact between June and Nov/Dec, but they are talking adoption at this point.

Somehow, EJ ends up leaving Gabe with them on or about 12/8, after she's had a fight with Logan and thrown him out of the trailer they share. Then, there's all the court, custody stuff going on between EJ and Logan. EJ meets TS at a church in AZ on 12/18 to get Gabe back, supposedly to take him to visit with Logan, but instead, skips town.

thank you, thank you, thank you!

I was wondering the definitive timeline.

Thanks for taking the time to do that!

 

[panthera]

So, to find out who (even if they were not using their real name) came in on the Tornado bus from anywhere USA on the date(s) in question, they should be able to find that information out, no?

I don't know if Tornado is required to keep the same records as airlines are, but IIRC, EJ used an alias when she went to Florida so it seems they don't even ask for ID. :waitasec:

 

[time]

lol and that would explain her new last name --

I am curious about her only to the extent of the Smith's adoption of H --and the claims that it was a shady deal --which might somehow be an indication of how Gabe went missing --and this train of thinking leaves me on the tracks of hope that Gabe IS alive and will be found

I guess I am still checking validity

Well, I agree that curiosity. The Smith's are now hinky on several adoption and surrogate issues including the concrete connection to Janet Morris. The father of H has a right to come forward if he has something to say, regardless of how we judge him on the documents available and given what is transpiring right now. Same with Tammi's ex, her children, or anyone who has what might be related information. H's mom has already been identified as either his daughter or step daughter in the press (and also as "a relative").

It's the Smith's also who chose to keep being in the spotlight even though they claim they do not have any useful information to give any one and they have so many contradictions in their statements that we can't keep track of them anymore. Tammi continually presents the reason for adopting Gabriel is not just for them, but because H wants a brother. I think that is a poor reason myself, but nonetheless, the Smith's have put H upfront and center, just like they were doing with Gabriel in that very short period of time - how wrong is it to blast his pictures all over the web and allow people to think he is or has already been adopted and have people commenting on him being H's brother. Can you imagine how you would feel if you were Gabriel's father or grandfather or aunt or uncle?

 

[YellowSubmarine]

If the Smiths really ever wanted Gabriel for themselves and had taken care of him even for a few days, I can't see how they could've defended EJ to begin with. Their first reaction would've been anger toward her for taking him away, possibly giving him to someone else, or worse. This reaction now of feeling "duped" is a little late it seems. MOO

But, we don't know that EJ really did take baby Gabe away from them. They are way too involved in the adoption scene to let this immature nutcase "dupe" them. For all we know, they know exactly where Gabriel is and helped get him there.

 

[eitak03]

i dont have a link or anything yet....but my sister lives in az and said on the news tonight (and she cant remember which channel, a lot of help she is!) they said that the other guy that EJ said could possibly be the father is a nephew or cousin or something (again, not much help) to TS! the guy is claiming he has never met elizabeth though....

i will try to find which channel it was on and post a link or something

 

[not_my_kids]

http://www.ksat.com/news/22220962/detail.html
Investigators from Arizona were in San Antonio Tuesday, looking for clues into the disappearance of 8-month-old Gabriel Johnson, last seen in the Alamo City with his mother the day after Christmas.
"We have to try and figure out what exactly happened in San Antonio. That's what we don't know," said Commander Kim Hale with the Tempe Police Department.
and
"The key holder is probably Elizabeth," Hale said.(BBM)

I'll be taking this to the media thread, but I wanted it to be seen here, in case it wasn't earlier.
The disclaimer of "Probably" just strikes me odd.

 

[time]

Originally Posted by W8nC View Post
WSers, correct me if I'm wrong.......and I KNOW you will, lol.....

Tammi met EJ at Boston Logan airport around June, when Gabe was a month old. EJ was returning to AZ from visiting family in Boston. Don't know where TS was returning from.

They admit to renewing the relationship around late Nov. No one, that I recall, has mentioned how the renewal came about, or if there was any other contact between June and Nov/Dec, but they are talking adoption at this point.

Somehow, EJ ends up leaving Gabe with them on or about 12/8, after she's had a fight with Logan and thrown him out of the trailer they share. Then, there's all the court, custody stuff going on between EJ and Logan. EJ meets TS at a church in AZ on 12/18 to get Gabe back, supposedly to take him to visit with Logan, but instead, skips town.

Tammi or Jack claimed last night on NG (I think that's where it was) that on the 8th or 9th, Elizabeth finally called her and asked if she was ready to adopt. I find this hard to believe as on the 8th Elizabeth had placed an ad on craigslist for a Nanny and said she had to go back to work - she couldn't pay but she could give a room for free. I am pretty sure at another point Tammi said they just offered to take care of Gabriel for a while to help Elizabeth out. And at another point Tammi represented it as babysitting for him. I am starting to wonder if the adoption thing only came up on the 9th (or whatever day they found Gabriel at the Smiths?) because the Smith's told her they needed some kind of papers to protect themselves - maybe they somehow even thought those would mean they could keep Gabriel or fend off Logan, sorry I'm shaky on the timeline on that last bit. I still think if we put their various comments in a column besides the timeline dates, we might be able to see more of what actually transpired.

 

[time]

i dont have a link or anything yet....but my sister lives in az and said on the news tonight (and she cant remember which channel, a lot of help she is!) they said that the other guy that EJ said could possibly be the father is a nephew or cousin or something (again, not much help) to TS! the guy is claiming he has never met tammi though....

i will try to find which channel it was on and post a link or something

omg... I knew there would be more weird stuff and more players!


thank you eitak

 

[Ives]

So, to find out who (even if they were not using their real name) came in on the Tornado bus from anywhere USA on the date(s) in question, they should be able to find that information out, no?

yes, they would have names, real or not. Keep in mind, that alot of illegal immigrants use these types of buslines, so if someone did see something off, even if just E.J.'s behavior, them speaking up, is quite slim, IMOO.

Also, any name like Brown, Smith, ect. would stick out. I think E.J. used Jones??
Most names are most likely, gonzales, herrera and such. Hispanic origin.

so would it help them any? IDK. But they could certainly get the lists.

 

[Ives]

thank you, thank you, thank you!

I was wondering the definitive timeline.

Thanks for taking the time to do that!

so then E.J. kept TS' phone number all these months? a stranger she did not even know?

 

[time]

http://www.ksat.com/news/22220962/detail.html
Investigators from Arizona were in San Antonio Tuesday, looking for clues into the disappearance of 8-month-old Gabriel Johnson, last seen in the Alamo City with his mother the day after Christmas.
"We have to try and figure out what exactly happened in San Antonio. That's what we don't know," said Commander Kim Hale with the Tempe Police Department.
and
"The key holder is probably Elizabeth," Hale said.(BBM)

I'll be taking this to the media thread, but I wanted it to be seen here, in case it wasn't earlier.
The disclaimer of "Probably" just strikes me odd.

Interesting. I wonder if they are now thinking that Elizabeth might not have that much more to tell them about who she handed him off to - that is what I am worried about.

Do we have a media thread?

 

[eitak03]

omg... I knew there would be more weird stuff and more players!


thank you eitak

ok i figured out that its http://www.kpho.com/video/22221445/index.html

 

[Baznme]

I don't know if Tornado is required to keep the same records as airlines are, but IIRC, EJ used an alias when she went to Florida so it seems they don't even ask for ID. :waitasec:

Even if no one came in on a Tornado bus, but rather met her at the Motel 6 parking lot and picked up the baby, the fact that Gabriel's car seat was still in the car bothers me. Possible the pickup person already had that arranged in the pickup vehicle so as not to "dawdle". I'm no expert in underground procedure, but from what I've seen on it, their movements are swift and deliberate. Once the underground connection is made, it's quick and over with. The child is gone. No time for emotional endings and important to keep things as normal as possible. So, it's a real possibility that the pickup person did come to EJ and that she didn't "take him" anywhere other than her normal running around waiting for the pickup.

 

[mum]

ok i figured out that its http://www.kpho.com/video/22221445/index.html

:woohoo::woohoo::dance: Awesome find!!

 

[momtective]

Interesting. I wonder if they are now thinking that Elizabeth might not have that much more to tell them about who she handed him off to - that is what I am worried about.

Do we have a media thread?

We sure do, thanks you Tricia! :clap:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93927"]AZ-Gabriel Johnson, 8 months News Media and Updated Information ONLY. No Discussion. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[DairyGirl]

What a whopper! It seems that EJ named CC as a possible father. But CC doesn't know EJ and never met her. BUT, he is a first cousin of TPS and says they are very close. The only thing I can think of is that TPS wanted EJ to say CC was the father so that they could get custody of baby Gabriel as blood relatives of him. To me that shows that TPS was directing EJ in what to say and how to keep LM from getting his son, all with the goal of having baby Gabriel for herself. I wonder what over lies will be found out. Also, the newscast said something about timestamped pictures of Gabriel, perhaps showing he was alive after EJ texted LM that she killed him.

 

[SuziQ]

ok i figured out that its http://www.kpho.com/video/22221445/index.html

Whoa, was this an attempt by TS to get a family member on Gabes certificate so she could get that family member to sign over custody? Just because CC has never met EJ doesn't mean he wasn't offered money by the Smith's to go along with this scam.

Wow, just wow @ the implications here.

 

[KellyConQueso]

Hi everyone - this is my first post :woohoo: so be gentle on me. :blushing:

I have lived in San Antonio for the past 10 years and am very familiar with some of the areas that are involved in this saga so I thought I'd put my 2¢ in.

On Raymond Russell Park:
This is not the type of park that you arrange play-dates for your kids at. There's not really any playground-type equipment and not anything for them do. This is a county park that is used for is family reunion and company picnic-type gatherings. There are several large pavilions with BBQ pits that you can rent out for this purpose. There is more parking lot than actual park there. I would think that during the winter when it would be rare that someone would be renting out pavilions the park would be pretty desolate. I'm not sure if there would be a park ranger on duty 24/7 but I would think that the park is checked-up on fairly frequently since they would want to make sure than the pavilions are not being used by people that didn't pay. The park is not near any neighborhoods (fairly rural area but lots of commercial development going on near there these days) and the entrance is from the I-10 access road. You would not notice the park or park entrance unless you were looking for it.

Yes, the park shares a border with a cemetery, but even though I have been to both the park and the cemetery twice, I have never realized this until I looked at it on a map because of this case.

As to any speculation that EJ buried this child in SA - forget it. SA is on top of solid rock. It is practically impossible to dig a hole in my yard deeper than 6 inches because of all the limestone in the ground. I had some bushes planted in my backyard 2 years ago and the landscaper had to use a jackhammer to get the holes big enough. My neighbor put in a pool in their back yard last year and they had to use dynamite to break up the rock into small enough pieces so that a full-size backhoe could dig them out. To get an idea of the amount of rock in SA, Six Flags Fiesta Texas is practically across the highway from Russell Park and if you take a look at it using Bing Maps aerial view your can see that Six Flags is built inside an abandoned limestone quarry with sheer rock walls up to 150 feet high surrounding it.

Enough about SA...
This is my big issue with the case - E not only texted L that she killed the baby, she went into gruesome detail about how he looked when he was dead. This troubles me a LOT. We know that E's mother was murdered. Was by any chance E the person that found her mother dead? Is this how she knew what a dead body looked like? Or was she really describing Gabe? I'm having a hard time coming to grips that she killed this child and that she did it with such malice that she took joy in describing his lifeless body to L. It's psychopathic and while I certainly don't think she's completely balanced, I don't see her as a psychopath.

 

[mum]

Even if no one came in on a Tornado bus, but rather met her at the Motel 6 parking lot and picked up the baby, the fact that Gabriel's car seat was still in the car bothers me. Possible the pickup person already had that arranged in the pickup vehicle so as not to "dawdle". I'm no expert in underground procedure, but from what I've seen on it, their movements are swift and deliberate. Once the underground connection is made, it's quick and over with. The child is gone. No time for emotional endings and important to keep things as normal as possible. So, it's a real possibility that the pickup person did come to EJ and that she didn't "take him" anywhere other than her normal running around waiting for the pickup.

Or if was an adoption they may have had their own car seat which is often the case. And they didn't want anything traceable like you said,,clean get away?

 

[SuziQ]

I said it way back when, arrest these people already.