AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #6

[Shear22]

Not sure what to say at this point.
Why would it be on that link?
I post that link more then once,,but you must not have seen the orginal post. And I just posted it again to show that this agency, in SA, which is close to the HOme Gate where she stayed, can legally place a baby outside of the country.

Assumed name thingy and SS# question was not directed at me. I don't think she used an assume name, and I am sure she would need to use her SS# and don't see why she wouldn't have.

I don't see why placing a baby outside the country would make the notification requirements any different.

 

[BeanE]

I don't believe Elizabeth would have used a fake name in an adoption or a fake birth certificate. I think she used her real name and the agency is bound by the privacy act not to release her information, especially if she did a closed adoption.

I don't agree with the moral integrity or lack thereof in underhanded adoptions but the fact is Texas makes it very easy and I believe that is exactly why EJ came to Texas.

But those privacy laws do not exempt LE from reviewing the records, so I hope every one of these suspected agencies has been sent to LE, because if this is what has happened, then Gabriel can be brought home VERY quickly!

 

[Bratlings]

I don't see why placing a baby outside the country would make the notification requirements any different.

It would be more difficult! Cant get a passport without a birth certificate AND with both parents consent if you are leaving the country. So in the case of an adoption you would definitely need a court order!

 

[Marigold]

Maybe she has talked to her attorney by now and we will have some answers tomorrow.

Speaking of attorneys...let's assume that AZ had wanted to offer her a deal, like.. tell us where the baby is and you'll get a lighter sentence. Could they offer that to her directly, or would they have to wait to make the offer through her attorney?

(I think I know the answer, but want to make sure.)

 

[BeanE]

The way I see it is:

She darn sure could have legally started the ball rolling in TX... Birth certificate with only her name etc. She could legally have gone in and surrendered her parental rights and handed over her baby. Only AFTER the fact would anyone been the wiser.

Yes the rest of you are also right, by now there would be evidence of it showing up in court... but probably not right away. But he very well could have been put into the system there. Maybe that is why LE is confident that Gabe is OK. Maybe it is now showing up.

Now that there is a new birth certificate any adoption would probably not stand up in court.

on the other hand... maybe this is not through the legal channels and would never show up in ANY court. It is also possible the EJ would not be aware it was or was not legal??? Still lots of room for possibilities.

BBM

Has a statement been released of LE saying they are confident that Gabriel is OK?

 

[Bratlings]

Speaking of attorneys...let's assume that AZ had wanted to offer her a deal, like.. tell us where the baby is and you'll get a lighter sentence. Could they offer that to her directly, or would they have to wait to make the offer through her attorney?

(I think I know the answer, but want to make sure.)

If she has not asked for an attorney and agrees to speak with police they can offer her anything. In fact even if she has an attorney but still agrees to speak alone with LE they can do that. They say she is not cooperating but we do not know if she is invoking her right to an attorney's presence.

 

[mum]

I don't see why placing a baby outside the country would make the notification requirements any different.

Say she didn't name dad, and there seemed to be some preplanning on her part, so if an agency called a couple, who always knew they would need to fly at a moments notice and they even had four or five days to get to TX, and then the agency took legal custody of the baby when EJ signed consent and didn't name father, once paper work is covered and money is paid by adoptive parents, they then are free to fly home.
It is harder to get a baby back from another country, but not impossible.
IF any placement happen and you have an attorney who says "sit tight" maybe this will die down,,,in our eyes we didn't do anything illegal, but birthmom did. then you may have a family who is trusting the atty and they are not coming forth and you may have a family who has no clue as to what is going on. With an international adoption, the paper work does not have to filed right away in the courts, it can always be filed a little later. But at some point papers do have to filed. So IF she did place the baby,,,it will come out.
This is all just my opinion,,,

 

[time]

[sbm]

really? has that attorney forgotten about KC?

Honestly, I'm not following that case. I realize that many are and that they see a lot of similarities with this case. The big difference, and the one one the attorneys pointed out is that there is no dead child in this case. Yes, there could be, but all indications are that LE seem to have good reason to think Gabriel is alive.

 

[overclockedgirl]

I see there's a lot of (cheap!) direct flights from San Antonio International Airport (which the super 8 was right next to). I wonder if they have checked the records of all of the airlines to see who was traveling on any of those days. !

 

[mum]

Honestly, I'm not following that case. I realize that many are and that they see a lot of similarities with this case. The big difference, and the one one the attorneys pointed out is that there is no dead child in this case. Yes, there could be, but all indications are that LE seem to have good reason to think Gabriel is alive.

That bring me to the question,, after hearing it on NG tonight,,,,,,,,Since prosecution thinks the killed the baby and stuffed him in her backpack and in to a trash can, has anyone gone looking? Are SA and Tempe butting heads with the way the investigation is being handled?

 

[BeanE]

Not sure what to say at this point.
Why would it be on that link?
I post that link more then once,,but you must not have seen the orginal post. And I just posted it again to show that this agency, in SA, which is close to the HOme Gate where she stayed, can legally place a baby outside of the country.

Assumed name thingy and SS# question was not directed at me. I don't think she used an assume name, and I am sure she would need to use her SS# and don't see why she wouldn't have.

Then for God's sake, if you're so convinced of this, call the FBI and give them the name and address of the agency, so they can go storm down the doors and bring Gabriel home tonight!

That's the bottom line. It's either helpful to finding Gabriel, or it's not.

 

[Prof]

And an adoption professional in Tennessee would know this and would be able to instruct someone (EJ) not to identify the father.

I'm right there with you -- do we know when TS called her friend in Nashville? Could it have been before EJ even decided to go to San Antonio?

I want a reason for San Antonio!

 

[Salem]

Speaking of attorneys...let's assume that AZ had wanted to offer her a deal, like.. tell us where the baby is and you'll get a lighter sentence. Could they offer that to her directly, or would they have to wait to make the offer through her attorney?

(I think I know the answer, but want to make sure.)

The prosecutor can offer the deal, so she wouldn't need an attorney. However, she has asked for an attorney, so LE/prosecutor may not question her at this point in time without her attorney present UNLESS she waives having her attorney present. If she were to go "on the record" and request an interview with LE, without her attorney, then a deal could be worked, otherwise they wait for her attorney.

Salem

 

[mum]

Well night all. You are a tough crowd,,you should all be the ones to get to interrogate EJ and even the Smiths!!
Great work ladies and you all have a mommys heart!!

 

[LadyL]

Honestly, I'm not following that case. I realize that many are and that they see a lot of similarities with this case. The big difference, and the one one the attorneys pointed out is that there is no dead child in this case. Yes, there could be, but all indications are that LE seem to have good reason to think Gabriel is alive.

oh I was just being a smart*** b/c the attorney seems to think that EJ living the good life bodes well for her defense

and we know that's not true in KC's case and to me it's more an indicator of a lack of a conscience rather than lack of guilt IMO

anyway, yeah ... sarcasm doesn't translate well in posts - sorry about that :blushing:

 

[BeanE]

Yami Virgin said it was the one by the HWY, the park and SIx Flags and it was verified.

It was verified that it was the one on San Pedro.

http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_863.shtml

 

[time]

That bring me to the question,, after hearing it on NG tonight,,,,,,,,Since prosecution thinks the killed the baby and stuffed him in her backpack and in to a trash can, has anyone gone looking? Are SA and Tempe butting heads with the way the investigation is being handled?

I don't think so ... I think the main reason they brought all that up was just to enter the facts and their lucky there are some damning ones so they can up the charges and get a very high bond on her. I would be more surprised if they hadn't gone for as much as possible.

 

[overclockedgirl]

Did anyone notice TS say she knew EJ for 7 months on NG on CNN at one point?

Also I see there are a lot of really cheap direct flights between San Antonio International (airport by the Super 8 she stayed at) I wonder if police have checked all the people traveling that day to see if they had any background about adoption etc. ??

 

[LadyL]

I see there's a lot of (cheap!) direct flights from San Antonio International Airport (which the super 8 was right next to). I wonder if they have checked the records of all of the airlines to see who was traveling on any of those days. !

I so don't want to even think about Gabriel gone overseas. If he's been taken out of country, he's not ever coming back IMO (as much as it pains me to think that).

 

[Prof]

It's ok! I didn't really even know till I checked the map or I forgot! I was just trying to figure out where all her time was spent and where she could have actually gone during all that time. I driven halfway or more across the country in a more leisurely manner than some (it's all relative) and it only took me 4 days or so, staying in a hotel every night. She would have been driving 3-4 hrs a day (or a more conservative estimate of 4-5, if it took her 3-4 days to get to San Antonio (18th -22nd). I'm more interested in the number of hotels she stayed in or if she stopped for quite a while somewhere else.

Did it really take her that long to get to San Antonio? I realize she had a baby, but seems like a very short driving day
If that is so, maybe she was just ambling along without much idea of where she was going -- hmmn