AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #6

[~PrinceSSa~]

What if she took the GPS with her and still had it when she was picked up in Miami Beach?
Is that how they are suddenly sure that she was never in Victoria? If she had it in her backpack, and it was on for a good portion of the trip, it would show where it had been, right? Or would it have to be hooked up in the vehicle to do that?

Perhaps that is how they know that she never went to Victoria <?>

 

[not_my_kids]

All right, to bed I go. I am hoping that tomorrow is the day we find out what happened. Positive or negative, I just want answers.

 

[BeanE]

http://www.kpho.com/news/22213153/detail.html
A few new tidbits in this one. I swear they read here.

Oh that's funny. I agree. That reporter is reading here lol.

 

[Mels3kidz]

I wonder if they have the borrowing from friend/roommate part correct - everything we've heard so far is that she had just recently rented out a room & would've had $ from that person paying rent

would a new roommate really lend a new landlord $?

or, is the new roommate really an old friend & that part's just now coming out?

hmmm ...

Or maybe the they simply have it confused and that the money "borrowed from a room mate" is actually the rent money?

Melissa

 

[time]

I am new here but not to this case. My theory is the adoption, talked into leaving Logan, and finally leaving Arizona all started from that day Tammi met Elizabeth at the airport. I think this was Tammi's goal all along. She may have projected her issues with her ex to Logan. The wanting a baby so badly to influence this mom, is due to fix her issues with her kids. Logan mentioned that adoption was brought up two times and the first being early on. I would be curious as if this might of been right after Elizabeth met Tammi and Tammi is the one putting this in her head. I am not saying Elizabeth is innocent but I think Tammi has an extreme part in this and Jack is just going along for Tammi. I think the threatening text to Logan was all of them involved to get him to sign. When he didn't that messed some plans up. Maybe they thought initially they could do it without him. After Logan refusing to sign, I am not quite sure. I am even thinking when Elizabeth told her grandfather about avoiding Logan for 30 days that could of been another avenue to get full custody. If she had full custody then the Smith's knew the adoption would be easier. I would also be curious of the Smith's were helping her out financially during the 7 months and how often calls from Tammi to Elizabeth. Having Gabriel for 8 or so days does not seem to warrant the attachment they say. Sounds more like it has been their plan since the airport to have this child.

Robin ... welcome and thank you for the thoughtful post. I think I am in agreement with almost all of what you said. I think that progression is very logical and I may be the only other person on here who thinks the Smith's could have been involved or knowledgeable about the plans to to threaten Logan on the phone. It does appear as if another thing was tried once one didn't work and I suspect this has been going on with the Smith's involvement on some level since Gabriel was a month old. the only thing I might not agree with you on is Jack - I don't think he is as uninvolved or quite as at Tammi's mercy as many think he is. I've see people play that role and let the other partner make decisions, but they are STILL knowingly making a choice and sometimes do that so they can claim lack of responsibilty even if their actions have and are supporting what the other partner does/says. Yeah, Jack may now realize it not so good, but he's an equal partner in this mess. He stood by while another man's, another father's rights, were being undermined - maybe two of them. He knew that. He was going to benefit by that.

 

[Searchfortruth]

I think the parts where TS inserts herself into the phone interview with Elizabeth are important. Tammi makes sure to say that she tried to get Elizabeth to come back and that Logan pushed her over the edge. Nothing is said about the events when Elizabeth left Arizona, who may have helped her make that decision, and conversation that took place from Tempe to SA. Sometimes it is more important what people don't mention as opposed to what they do mention. Tammi was desperate to bring out certain statements on the phone. She never once asked anything about why Elizabeth left in the first place, I believe because she didn't want to risk EJ blurting out her involvement.

If Tammi had nothing to do with what happened in SA (and I'm not sure she didn't), I still believe she played a vital role in getting Elizabeth to run to Texas. If there are inconsistencies in the polygraph, I wonder if they center on TS's involvement in the beginning of EJ's departure and trip.

 

[Prof]

What I'm having trouble understanding is why Elizabeth would sit in jail, if Gabriel is alive. You would think that once her plan, is there ever was a plan, was foiled by LE and Logan, she would come clean to avoid getting sent to jail. I can't help but fear the worst.

IMO she is 'sitting in jail' simply because she has not been appointed a lawyer yet and she is taking the advice to not talk without a lawyer to some extent

She seemed to want to talk in her first court appearance IMO

Hopefully the PD can make some kind of deal to end this -- I can only hope

 

[time]

Oh that's funny. I agree. That reporter is reading here lol.

Haha ... posted some of the online stuff I was looking for this morning and couldn't find....

The Smiths saw Gabriel as the son they always wanted. On Tammi's Facebook page, she left several posts from when Gabriel was in their care.

Didn't Tammi claim not long ago they were just babysitting for Gabriel?

 

[robinmphoto]

Thanks for the welcome!

There just seems to be more of a driving force behind Elizabeth other than her rage to Logan, her lack of not wanting a child and her childhood. That sounds like a weird statement but I guess the steps she took to get where she is right now does not seem like a 23 year old. Just my opinion. She acts like she really thinks she did nothing wrong as been told this may happen and what to NOT say. I don't know maybe I am totally off but I sure hope she is convinced by a Lawyer to talk. If it was an adoption you would think she would just talk and say they (who ever they are) told me it was legal.

Tammi's attachment to Gabriel is scary. Too bad at that time, an outside relative of Elizabeth could have witnessed and intervened.

 

[CarmelEyesD]

Tammy may be completely telling the truth when she says they 'met' at an airport. However, that meeting may not have been unplanned. If Elizabeth knew she didn't want to be a mom, she may have been putting 'feelers' out on the internet, and browsing adoption sites. They may have connected this way and arranged to meet. Tammy would be 'telling the truth' when she was asked this question or told this story, and thus pass a lie detector test. This could be true of many of her statements-true, but not fully or honestly explained. I don't think Tammy personally handled any of this, if this is the case-which would account for no deception on her LDT. But I also bet she put Elizabeth in touch with someone, who directed her to the next person, etc etc. Tammy would not be lying when she said she knows nothing-she probably does know nothing. She may have only opened the gate for Elizabeth to walk through.

Elizabeth could have tossed he phone in someones car through window, or even just left it on a bench. Someone may have picked it up, then discarded it, or seen it in their car and tossed it out. Or she may have headed that way (per pings) to arrange a meeting, where she then transferred the child to a 'couple' as she said. Only not a random couple-a preplanned 'meet us here at this time' couple. . She didn't have all that much money, but may have gone to Miami to wait for a further payment, to an as yet unmade bank account, or some subtle means of delivery.

I do believe he is illegally adopted out, to someone who wasn't too concerned about laws. With the airport(s) in close proximity, he was probably flown out of the country. He could be issued a new birth certificate to his new family, and re enter the country with his new family, or remain where he is, if they are residents of another country. These could be fake papers-but they could also be real, depending on what country and how well the bribe system is and how honorable the government is. Real papers can be obtained, if people want to pay enough and if they have an 'in' with certain agencies.

If it is a 'black market' adoption, I am sure these things happen fairly often, and usually involve a member high enough in agencies to help these children move in the black market.

I do know if you want something bad enough, and have money to pay for it, you can get it. Laws or no laws-there is always someone making a living circumventing these laws, and providing people with what they want for a price.

This is all just my opinion.

 

[Searchfortruth]

IMO she is 'sitting in jail' simply because she has not been appointed a lawyer yet and she is taking the advice to not talk without a lawyer to some extent

She seemed to want to talk in her first court appearance IMO

Hopefully the PD can make some kind of deal to end this -- I can only hope

I hope her court appointed lawyer will encourage Elizabeth to talk and take some sort of plea. From the behavior we have seen of her, in the court room, her defiance may hinder that process. If she doesn't attain a lawyer that wants this case for the notariety, then there may be a chance that Gabriel will be found.

 

[Bratlings]

from that link:

"He offered me 5 grand and to pay for my divorce if I'd leave town, which I refused."

I don't by any means think this guy is an angel but his story of being manipulated, coerced, and threatened sure sounds familiar!

I dont know about that. He admits the mother of the child was in rehab and that he was in jail with 3 serious charges that were not dropped because of his innocence but because the complaining witness disappeared. I might offer someone like that money to get out of my daughters life too. I know many people would in that situation, and cant blame them.

 

[BeanE]

BeanE - you are right. It is very similar to the "indications" Gabe might be in Nashville.

I will also say that LE always says "there is no indication of foul play" when children under the age of 10 go missing. Anyone with a brain knows that a child under the age of 10 that goes missing has almost always met with foul play of some kind. So.... taking LE literally is not always the way to go.

After watching EJ in court today, I am feeling a little more hopeful that Gabe is alive and that she did manage to hand him off to someone. Hopefully, LE will figure out who soon and get Gabe home.

Night all,

Salem

It's always important to me to pay attention to exactly what LE says - and what they don't say - in order to keep as closely tuned as possible to what the status is of a case from their perspective. To me, LE has consistently meant what they've said the majority of the time on the cases I've followed. I can count on it. I like things I can count on.

I am very glad that LE is hopeful and optimistic that Gabriel is still alive. It gives me hope, hope that I can count on.

Right now I'm hoping that very soon LE will upgrade that and say they believe Gabriel is alive. And if they go further and say they are convinced Gabriel is alive, I will be thrilled. For now, I can accept and appreciate that they are hopeful and optimistic, and I'll keep on looking for Gabriel.

Night, Salem, and thank you.

 

[time]

Tammy may be completely telling the truth when she says they 'met' at an airport. However, that meeting may not have been unplanned. If Elizabeth knew she didn't want to be a mom, she may have been putting 'feelers' out on the internet, and browsing adoption sites. They may have connected this way and arranged to meet. Tammy would be 'telling the truth' when she was asked this question or told this story, and thus pass a lie detector test. This could be true of many of her statements-true, but not fully or honestly explained. I don't think Tammy personally handled any of this, if this is the case-which would account for no deception on her LDT. But I also bet she put Elizabeth in touch with someone, who directed her to the next person, etc etc. Tammy would not be lying when she said she knows nothing-she probably does know nothing. She may have only opened the gate for Elizabeth to walk through.
<snipped>

I think that is a distinct possibility - that even their meeting at the airport was planned ... and I agree with the rest you say, I think that is exactly what has transpired.

 

[Bratlings]

No, I don't think it took her that long ... that was my sideways way of saying she would have had to have gone there very slowly or stopped somewhere on the way... what was she doing all that time? And where?

We are talking about 1000 miles right? How long should it take with a baby?

 

[robinmphoto]

Now the Smith's are in "UH OH" mode and trying to play the concerned, loving couple. So if Elizabeth does say anything they will just "refer" back to "we just thought Logan was abusing her and she didn't want her child". The facebook entries about having a son are damning. When the Smith's had Gabriel the 8 days, didn't Elizabeth report that Logan took off with him. Someone should as the Smith's if they had any knowledge of her doing that. Was that the first plan that failed? That was right around the time I think she told her grandfather about her "avoiding Logan plan". Logan though went to the house to pick up Gabriel and contacted the police himself.

 

[time]

Thanks for the welcome!

There just seems to be more of a driving force behind Elizabeth other than her rage to Logan, her lack of not wanting a child and her childhood. That sounds like a weird statement but I guess the steps she took to get where she is right now does not seem like a 23 year old. Just my opinion. She acts like she really thinks she did nothing wrong as been told this may happen and what to NOT say. I don't know maybe I am totally off but I sure hope she is convinced by a Lawyer to talk. If it was an adoption you would think she would just talk and say they (who ever they are) told me it was legal.

Tammi's attachment to Gabriel is scary. Too bad at that time, an outside relative of Elizabeth could have witnessed and intervened.

Again, Robin, I agree, I think Tammi knew she had a vulnerable victim in Elizabeth and knew exactly how to push and what buttons to push.

I also think that Elizabeth wants a lawyer and we may see that quickly leads to something.

I'm not so sure I think this was an adoption - at least not an immediate one. I think the other route is someone hiding him until, like Jack said, he gets filtered back into the system. For most purposes that doesn't have to happen until school age. Not as many questions are asked when you've already had a child for 5 years and I'm not so sure by then any one would present it as an adoption. They can probably get phony papers that are not even questioned.

 

[Elphaba]

I hope the bio father of H can find a sympathetic ear with a lawyer or parental group that will help him waive legal fees so he can get the ball rolling on getting H back. While Tammi may flaunt the whole "H got a brother for Christmas" thing, in reality H does have a sibling that the Smiths have robbed her of knowing...


Perhaps the Smiths thought that since they easily pulled one over on the ex-son-in-law when they snatched H away from him, that they could do that with Logan... but Logan threw a wrench in their plans, surprising the heck out of them with not backing down.

 

[robinmphoto]

I really cannot see Tammi helping her adopt the baby to someone else. She had it set in her mind that Hannah had a brother. In my opinion, Tammi's involvement was not to help this girl but to help herself to a new baby.

 

[time]

We are talking about 1000 miles right? How long should it take with a baby?

I don't know if it is 1000 miles - it is 15 hrs driving time on Google. I think it depends on the baby - some sleep a lot in the car, others don't. My daughter often makes the trip to relatives with two kids under 4 that is about half that time. They usually stop once for a while if she's lucky (I think). But then I know she placates the older one a bit with movies which is something I don't think Elizabeth would have had in gramps car.