AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #11

[LisaB]

I think it was. IIRC, it was mentioned here that he didn't have transportation. (?)


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Which is precisely why I wonder how he got there 15 minutes before LE was called, assuming he is the "uncle" that was helping to search, and who addressed the media saying he was awakened by the news of Isabel's disappearance and was not immediately sure it was not a nightmare. He was NOT from Sergio's side of the family (the parents that live a block or so away) so it is unlikely he was staying with them... so where was he sleeping that night that he was able to arrive within moments of Sergio realizing Isa was gone, and before he even calle LE? I think I would make 911 my FIRST call, and then start calling relatives.

Where did JM sleep? We have been told there was nobody in the house, but it IS slightly possible that, if he was essentially homeless, he was crashing in the parked car that doesn't run, and the family may not even have known it. Rumor (NG) says he used to live with the family, but doesn't now. Nobody has found an actual address for him, so he's either couch surfing, or the Celises told him he could stay only for X amount of time before he would have to leave, and the time ran out. If he is, in fact, related by a fairly recent marriage (I believe it was 3-4 years?) allowing him to stay AT ALL would have been a very generous gesture, and putting some sort of limit in place before agreeing is very reasonable.

Then again, he could have been asked to leave for some other reason. Perhaps something about his behavior was setting a bad example for the kids, or just thatthe presence of a second adult male in the home upset the family balance a little and needed to go.
:moo::moo::moo::moo::moo:

 

[azwildcat]

I don't KNOW this, but WONDER if people living there HAVE doggy doors, since it seems they have walls to keep out wild animals... would they want to risk one entering through the doggy door?

Respectfully snipped by me. I had a doggy door while living in Tucson, as well as most of my friends with dogs. Some had those fancy ones that locked at night, others, myself included, had just a magnetic flap type. And we did have "wild animals" come in through the door but it was imited to mice (gah! did you know mice LOVE dog food?! I did not. Worst experience and it happened twice!) and birds. No idea whether this family has one but they are common.

 

[AnaTeresa]

Would the BAU/LE really risk antagonising the perp if they believe Isabel is alive? (if it is a stranger abduction)

I hope not.

I really can't make head nor tail about what is going on in this case but I feel there is a cat and mouse game going on.

I think they know what they are doing, generally. I think if the word was deliberately chosen to evoke a response, they knew what sort of response it would be beforehand.

 

[LisaB]

I heard it on KGUN 9 before the presser that NBC was paying for their room.

snipped

Because of security concerns and concerns for the privacy of Rebecca and Sergio Celis, KGUN9 News has agreed to withhold the location where the press conference took place. KGUN9 News has confirmed, however, that NBC News has been paying for the Celis family to stay at the hotel. During the press conference, the Celis's denied that they were directly compensated for Thursday's exclusive appearance on The Today Show or for the exclusive video of Isabel that they provided to NBC. The family released that same video to Tucson media later Thursday.

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/150175035.html

They were not DIRECTLY compensated if the network paid the hotel directly. It's a fine line, but someone has to walk it.

I don't have a problem with accepting money for the interviews for the hotel room. My problem is the lying, and portraying themselves as people who don't need to accept the money. :moo:

I don't think they lied. I think that, ordinarily they can pay their bills, but (as they said in discussing the need to return to their jobs) they have bills to pay. Paying for a hotel room in addition to their mortgage when they have no income beyond any "leave" or "vacation" time accrued would be outrageously expensive. As it is, they need to have a special cleaner come in to clean up harmful chemical residues left by the investigation. They can't move home until the house is clean. If they delay much beyond that point, I'd feel they were taking advantage of the situation, but under the circumstances, not so much.

 

[cindysue]

I have been reading the threads and wonder about the dogs that were let loose the week before Isa went missing. IMO I think it's significant as I think it shows she was being targeted and this isn't some random person walking by and grabbing her. The perp made a dry run with what was prob his biggest worry ,the dogs. So how did the dogs get let loose,where they usually in the house at night or outside? I've heard the night she went missing some dogs were inside,some out? And if she usually slept with her brothers, then this perp had to watch her almost nightly to catch her alone in her room it would seem. How could someone watch them waiting for her to be vulnerable and never get caught by the dogs or the family, a peeping Tom maybe watching for the right moment? I don't know the statistic's concerning peeping toms but my guess would be it was someone that lived close to the person they are spying on.

 

[marazul]

:seeya:

BBM: Yes ... an "adequate cover-up" in the "darkness of night" ... now how in the world" could a "stranger" -- get rid of any and all evidence, trace evidence, etc. ? ? ?


snipped from : http://www.kvoa.com/videos/police-say-whoever-did-this-did-an-adequate-job/

Here is the full quote from Lt. Fabian Pacheco :

"Whoever is involved did an adequate job of really covering a lot of things that we could possibly look at."


BBM: JMO and MOO, but my "interpretation" is that whoever did this, knew what they were doing as well as knew what to dispose of so that LE would NOT find it ...

JMO and :moo::moo::moo:

What stands out to me is the word "covering". In LE terms, covering is close to cover- up, or hiding a crime with purposely misleading staging. I still don't think the family is involved, but this statement from LE sounds like they might br leaning towards that idea. If they were thinking stranger abduction, wouldn't they say " hiding their trail" or "did an adequate job of not leaving evidence" or "did an adequate job of evading detection" ?

 

[cluciano63]

Has it been said that the dogs had been "let loose"? Or just that they were ticketed for the dogs being loose?

 

[LisaB]

Here's what I don't get. IIRC, there were many people in the home that night... uncles, cousins, the whole fam dammily. Why would a 6 year old go to bed at 8:00 p.m. and not be checked on until the next morning. Something stinks, but I don't know what yet. JMO.

some one please correct me if I have my facts wrong. TIA.

Are we all talking about Isabel Celis?
They got home from the ballpark late after the older boy's team played Friday evening, and went to bed at ELEVEN O'CLOCK at night (not 8). Her dad went to wake her for her ballgame at EIGHT O'CLOCK in the morning. And the family has stated that there were no uncles, cousins, or anyone else in the house, just Becky, Sergio, their 2 sons and Isabel.

 

[nursebeeme]

Has it been said that the dogs had been "let loose"? Or just that they were ticketed for the dogs being loose?

only that they were ticketed for dogs being loose and also needed vaccinations iirc (not that someone let them loose):moo:

 

[cindysue]

Which is precisely why I wonder how he got there 15 minutes before LE was called, assuming he is the "uncle" that was helping to search,
Where did JM sleep? We have been told there was nobody in the house, but it IS slightly possible that, if he was essentially homeless, he was crashing in the parked car that doesn't run, and the family may not even know. Nobody has found an actual address for him,

If he was staying in the car, he would know a lot about the comings and going of the family.

Originally Posted by FrayedKnot
I think it was. IIRC, it was mentioned here that he didn't have transportation.

Just cause he didn't have transportation doesn't mean he might not have friends he could call when he needed to do stuff.

 

[MaryAnn]

I have been reading the threads and wonder about the dogs that were let loose the week before Isa went missing. IMO I think it's significant as I think it shows she was being targeted and this isn't some random person walking by and grabbing her. The perp made a dry run with what was prob his biggest worry ,the dogs. So how did the dogs get let loose,where they usually in the house at night or outside? I've heard the night she went missing some dogs were inside,some out? And if she usually slept with her brothers, then this perp had to watch her almost nightly to catch her alone in her room it would seem. How could someone watch them waiting for her to be vulnerable and never get caught by the dogs or the family, a peeping Tom maybe watching for the right moment? I don't know the statistic's concerning peeping toms but my guess would be it was someone that lived close to the person they are spying on.

A Tucson resident that was interviewed on NG said she had to move because there was a Peeping Tom that continued to plague her block and LE didn't seem to do anything or they couldn't catch him. She even put up surveillance equipment before she moved, but it didn't seem to help. Apparently he was relentless enough to make them move. He was never caught!

 

[LisaB]

Not sure how I missed this article, just find it interesting, he seems to have quite a bit of experience in these areas.


http://www.kvoa.com/full-coverage/finding-isabel/

He has 25 years of law experience, plus another 20 in psychology. He analyzed the parents' body language.
"He has access at closing of the eyes every time you do interviews and people look away or lose eye contact, you need to suspect deception," said Baggot, when referring to the Celis'.




He also talked about the question of the parents' possible involvement in their daughter's disappearance.
"Most important they asked clearly if he had anything to do with his daughter's disappearance, he doesn't answer the question. Watch their body movements during that question. No support, no hands crossing. She looks down to the right, I would expect her to watch him and watch him deny it, but he evades the question," said Baggot.

If I felt that my daughter had been abducted by a stranger and KNEW I had:
- Left the door unlocked
- Left her window open
- Made her sleep in her own room
- Not checked on her before gojing to bed (SC) or upon waking (BC)
- (according to LE) probably been related to or friendly with the perp
I would have a hard time saying I had NOTHING to do with her disappearance too.

ETA: He did not ignore a question about whether he was involved. He answered a question about how he felt about speculation he was involved.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I think they know what they are doing, generally. I think if the word was deliberately chosen to evoke a response, they knew what sort of response it would be beforehand.

I can't say what methods the BAU/LE use in the US.

I just thought that sending a message to the perp is something they do in Criminal Minds and the Movies.

 

[liz b.]

Has it been said that the dogs had been "let loose"? Or just that they were ticketed for the dogs being loose?

Good point. But, if the dogs were outside,and the gate was open, presumably they got out ? Someone opened the gate ? Or left it open ? I would love to know,what time the dogs were running around the neighborhood,what time they may have gotten loose ? I only know that it happened exactly a week before Isabel went missing...MOO

 

[LisaB]

BBM

I agree that Becky's response was appropriate and what I would think most people would expect of such a question. On the other hand, Sergio just goes on and on about nothing to do with the question he was asked really. Based on the internet and talk about town, they had to know they would be asked those type of questions, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have a list of questions or an idea of questions that were allowed to be asked or not.

Sergio's response was beyond strange, in my opinion. I would have expected him to get a little agitated, maybe even critical of those thinking the family had something to do with it. Get upset and stress that people thinking such things is taking time and effort away from the search for Isa. Instead he rambles on, and wants whoever has her to look at how beautiful she is, not that they wouldn't know that already.

I know everyone reacts differently to things, but I do sense a great deal of sadness and sincerity from Becky. I watched an interview this morning of Brittany Drexels dad and it broke my heart, I am really not heartless, Sergio just gives me some sort of feeling I can't really explain.

If Sergio had gotten indignant and ranted about people accusing them, we'd all be sitting here discussing his "apparent anger management issues". Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I beieve they were responding to the question if they had ever borrowed money from family or friends. And RC said 'no' we know better than that. She didn't say they had never borrowed money. jmo

Yes, she wanted it known they had never borrowed money from individuals.

As some were hinting Isa could have been taken to satisfy an unpaid debt which that assertion is beyond ridiculous imo.

Of course they are just like any family. They have had loans to purchases homes, vehicles, and maybe even have credit cards...etc.

IMO

 

[nursebeeme]

I have a double major in musical theatre.. Sergio did not strike me as odd.. he just struck me as "theatrical" which is normal with that sort of performing background. If you guys could see my college friends you would know what I mean by that. (I also thought his performance of Ave Maria was absolutely beautiful and I don't know how he was able to make it thru the song)....

praying that something develops soon!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If I felt that my daughter had been abducted by a stranger and KNEW I had:
- Left the door unlocked
- Left her window open
- Made her sleep in her own room
- Not checked on her before gojing to bed (SC) or upon waking (BC)
- (according to LE) probably been related to or friendly with the perp
I would have a hard time saying I had NOTHING to do with her disappearance too.

ETA: He did not ignore a question about whether he was involved. He answered a question about how he felt about speculation he was involved.

That would mean we would be blaming every family member that has been shattered this way for what the did to their child.

Now will the parents feel guilt even if it isnt warranted? Imo, yes, no one carries around guilt any better than parents when something happens to one of their children.

My first cousin sent her daughter to the store to get something she needed to cook for their supper and she was killed when a drunk driver hit her vehicle head on. Even today..years later.. she beats herself up about the 'what ifs'.. what if she hadnt asked her to go..But she is not responsible for what a drunk did to her child.

That is just a natural reaction that a parent has but it never ever means they are responsible for what someone else did.

I have read from local posters that they raise their windows at night in Tucson due to it cooling off at night from the scorching heat during the day. The Celis' did nothing wrong, imo.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have a double major in musical theatre.. Sergio did not strike me as odd.. he just struck me as "theatrical" which is normal with that sort of performing background. If you guys could see my college friends you would know what I mean by that. (I also thought his performance of Ave Maria was absolutely beautiful and I don't know how he was able to make it thru the song)....

praying that something develops soon!

I am very use to Hispanic males and I find Sergio very endearing.

IMO

 

[mck16]

I have a double major in musical theatre.. Sergio did not strike me as odd.. he just struck me as "theatrical" which is normal with that sort of performing background. If you guys could see my college friends you would know what I mean by that. (I also thought his performance of Ave Maria was absolutely beautiful and I don't know how he was able to make it thru the song)....

praying that something develops soon!

I haven't seen it, but I want to. I bet he closed his eyes when he sang too didn't he? Do we have the link to the video? tia