AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #13

[Azcrabcakes]

Does lawyering up, or not, pronounce guilt, or not? I think people who are aware of the law may think of getting a lawyer immediately, but I would not.

God forbid something like this were to happen to my family, I would not think twice about letting LE interview anyone. I'd not think about a lawyer!

If I were a perp, and I knew the public thought hiring a lawyer showed guilt, I would not hire one immediately.

However, I have heard Marc Klass say hiring an attorney in a case like this is wise. It probably is, but I would not think that way. I also have no money to hire a lawyer.

BTW, I was not aware the word "effeminate" was considered derogatory! I've known men some called effeminate and some were gay, and some not. I actually do not care for "tough guy" men. I like sensitive men. Men who do not track in mud. Men who know what saffron is. Men who know stripes don't go with plaid. eace:

 

[panthera]

I wonder if the pillows and blanket were origianlly in Isa's room. Did anyone take note in the video that LE took a piece of carpet from the car also?

Another question - has it been established how long this car has been disabled?

 

[PAXIMUS]

Does lawyering up, or not, pronounce guilt, or not? I think people who are aware of the law may think of getting a lawyer immediately, but I would not.

God forbid something like this were to happen to my family, I would not think twice about letting LE interview anyone. I'd not think about a lawyer!

If I were a perp, and I knew the public thought hiring a lawyer showed guilt, I would not hire one immediately.

However, I have heard Marc Klass say hiring an attorney in a case like this is wise. It probably is, but I would not think that way. I also have no money to hire a lawyer.

BTW, I was not aware the word "effeminate" was considered derogatory! I've known men some called effeminate and some were gay, and some not. I actually do not care for "tough guy" men. I like sensitive men. Men who do not track in mud. Men who know what saffron is. Men who know stripes don't go with plaid. eace:

I would never counsel anyone to speak to LEO without an attorney under any circumstances, to me it is sheer stupidity to do so, but I understand why someone involved in a case like this dont lawyer up right away, because the general public is largely ignorant and they pass immediate judgement of guilt on those who are smart enough to protect their rights.

Watch shows like the First 48 and tell me that if 90% of those people had attorneys they wouldnt say half of what they admit to police by themselves, 90% of those people would not even be charged on that show if they hired attorneys and a lot of them are tricked in to saying incriminating things because of it, blows my mind really.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Ill clarify by saying this would be a considered a bit rogue and underhanded for p=olice to do it but again if they really want to speak to the kid and mom says ok but dad doesnt, they would run with it in some cases, I have personally seen it. It is often frowned upon by the courts and sometimes it will be thrown out.

I would hope so! I really have a problem with pressuring kids.

On the other hand, I can understand the frustration of LE when it appears a childs' testimony can make or break a case.

Maybe this No Contract thing is to do with SC pressuring the boys to keep quiet. Several posters have suggested this, and maybe they are right.

It would be ironic if LE got the info about the boys being coerced by coercing them.


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[BetteDavisEyes]

OT: For those of you who are hanging out here at Websleuths, there is a Law & Order: Special Victims Unit "mother of all marathons" starting at 2:00 (EDT) on USA Network. I've probably seen the episodes a dozen times each but will tune in for Mother's Day entertainment

 

[Azcrabcakes]

I have a pretty good nose for detecting when someone is gay, I have a gay brother, I really dont see it in Sergio but I guess you ladies would probably be in a better position to make that call. I see a well dressed, well spoken, well educated and well rounded man, ON THE SURFACE, I am pretty much the same way and most certainly not gay but in private among friends I am not above being an insenstive prick and telling offensive and filthy jokes. People are complicated animals.

SC appears a little on the effeminate side to me, but I do not see it as a negative. He also like music and opera. In mafia movies, they often show the gangsters listening to opera! LOL

I know this will irk some, but I do not find him particularly well spoken. In stressful times, well worked words can be very difficult - they are for me. Having said that, I don't take off points for his speech. But I find a lot of his and RC's wording hard to understand. Not JUST the Celis', but many people today.

SC said "I will never stop finding her" using "finding" for "searching" or "looking for her." Finding means you have found it, not still seeking it out. It is not a transition from Spanish to English that does it either. I am fluent in Spanish and the word for "finding" and "searching" are different. Word mix ups such as "borrow" is used to mean both "borrow" and "lend". This kind of wording makes it difficult for me to understand the first time around, and also harder to determine deception. It is unintentional, and both parents are fluent in both languages. Fluent actually means they can speak with ease, but the vocabulary does not suggest higher education. Mom has only an AAS, a two year degree.

What kind of work does Sergio do?

 

[FrayedKnot]

I think I would get a lawyer pretty quick, even if I were innocent.

IMO, had the Celises lawyered up immediately, it wouldn't be indicative of guilt. That is one of the few things in this case that HASN'T set off my hinky meter.




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[FrayedKnot]

OT: For those of you who are hanging out here at Websleuths, there is a Law & Order: Special Victims Unit "mother of all marathons" starting at 2:00 (EDT) on USA Network. I've probably seen the episodes a dozen times each but will tune in for Mother's Day entertainment

I heart Elliot. Thanks for sharing!!!!!


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[katydid23]

As the daughter of a defense attorney, I would probably seek counsel immediately if not sooner. But I would cooperate fully with LE and I would speak to them as often as they wanted to speak to me. If I was innocent, I would still seek counsel because I would not want to be falsely accused or even worse, falsely charged. But it is a catch-22, because people may assume guilt if someone 'lawyers up.'

 

[Azcrabcakes]

I would never counsel anyone to speak to LEO without an attorney under any circumstances, to me it is sheer stupidity to do so, but I understand why someone involved in a case like this dont lawyer up right away, because the general public is largely ignorant and they pass immediate judgement of guilt on those who are smart enough to protect their rights.

Watch shows like the First 48 and tell me that if 90% of those people had attorneys they wouldnt say half of what they admit to police by themselves, 90% of those people would not even be charged on that show if they hired attorneys and a lot of them are tricked in to saying incriminating things because of it, blows my mind really.

I think you are correct, Pax. I'm trying to say that, to me, innocent people do not think of lawyering up. If LE came to my door right now, and wanted to question me about an incident, I would speak freely and willingly. NEVER would I give a thought to a lawyer, trusting in LE. They are only talking to me, right. Then, I find a neighbor has said they saw ME committing a crime. I can see it would get messy, and I could get charged for my doppelganger's crime. But at the initial contact with LE, I would never even think *I* could be in trouble! I think that is were some people DO get in trouble.

In any case, it is true, we the public, do jump to conclusions, though I try not to. Gut feelings are often right though, even if they do not hold up in court!

 

[Shelby2]

SC appears a little on the effeminate side to me, but I do not see it as a negative. He also like music and opera. In mafia movies, they often show the gangsters listening to opera! LOL

I know this will irk some, but I do not find him particularly well spoken. In stressful times, well worked words can be very difficult - they are for me. Having said that, I don't take off points for his speech. But I find a lot of his and RC's wording hard to understand. Not JUST the Celis', but many people today.

SC said "I will never stop finding her" using "finding" for "searching" or "looking for her." Finding means you have found it, not still seeking it out. It is not a transition from Spanish to English that does it either. I am fluent in Spanish and the word for "finding" and "searching" are different. Word mix ups such as "borrow" is used to mean both "borrow" and "lend". This kind of wording makes it difficult for me to understand the first time around, and also harder to determine deception. It is unintentional, and both parents are fluent in both languages. Fluent actually means they can speak with ease, but the vocabulary does not suggest higher education. Mom has only an AAS, a two year degree.

What kind of work does Sergio do?

His work has something to do with Dentistry I think?

 

[southsleuth]

OT: For those of you who are hanging out here at Websleuths, there is a Law & Order: Special Victims Unit "mother of all marathons" starting at 2:00 (EDT) on USA Network. I've probably seen the episodes a dozen times each but will tune in for Mother's Day entertainment

Just turned it on!

 

[daisy7]

I've been out of town this weekend and am catching up. I am confused by the "no contact" order. Here in FL, no one has the authority to issue that type of order except a judge (either through a DVI or a DCF case). And, I haven't seen that a judge has been involved in this case. Did I miss something?

TIA!

 

[PAXIMUS]

Sergio is a dental hygienist.

 

[~n/t~]

I've been out of town this weekend and am catching up. I am confused by the "no contact" order. Here in FL, no one has the authority to issue that type of order except a judge (either through a DVI or a DCF case). And, I haven't seen that a judge has been involved in this case. Did I miss something?

TIA!

This is all we know:

The police statement said new information regarding the welfare of the older Celis children led detectives to contact officials with Child Protective Services and call in Isabel's family for a meeting Friday. The statement did not specify what prompted the detectives and child welfare workers to take action.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/isabel-celis-missing-tucson-girls-father-barred-contact/story?id=16334922

 

[Eileen730]

Here is one article that said MoM was home and left for work that Morning!


http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/1...-year-old-girl
Updated article with a few new tidbits:

"Celis' father went into her bedroom to wake her up the next morning only to find her missing from her bedroom. The family dialed 9-1-1 at 8 a.m. Saturday.

Villaseñor said the girl's mother had left the home for work on Saturday morning"

"The Academy of Tucson student was last seen with her hair in two long braids"

 

[txanmom]

Does lawyering up, or not, pronounce guilt, or not? I think people who are aware of the law may think of getting a lawyer immediately, but I would not.

God forbid something like this were to happen to my family, I would not think twice about letting LE interview anyone. I'd not think about a lawyer!

If I were a perp, and I knew the public thought hiring a lawyer showed guilt, I would not hire one immediately.

However, I have heard Marc Klass say hiring an attorney in a case like this is wise. It probably is, but I would not think that way. I also have no money to hire a lawyer.

BTW, I was not aware the word "effeminate" was considered derogatory! I've known men some called effeminate and some were gay, and some not. I actually do not care for "tough guy" men. I like sensitive men. Men who do not track in mud. Men who know what saffron is. Men who know stripes don't go with plaid. eace:

good afternoon everyone! Happy Mother's Day!!

I think the same as you do, but I asked my husband what he thought and he said he would immediately hire a lawyer.

I wonder if SC could have been sleeping in the car? Just a random thought, if maybe he was in the doghouse or something.

I do remember that LE took a piece of the carpet.

I wonder if they finally got through all the surveillance videos last week and that had something to do with the "new information" LE found that made them consult with CPS for the no contact order.

 

[PAXIMUS]

As the daughter of a defense attorney, I would probably seek counsel immediately if not sooner. But I would cooperate fully with LE and I would speak to them as often as they wanted to speak to me. If I was innocent, I would still seek counsel because I would not want to be falsely accused or even worse, falsely charged. But it is a catch-22, because people may assume guilt if someone 'lawyers up.'

That is wise. False confessions are an epidemic in my profession, they happen more than people want to admit. You stand ZERO CHANCE even as an innocent person, against seasoned interrogators who are trained to confuse and disorient you to the point you say things you dont even realize you are saying. An attorney is there to prevent that, not hide the truth or get you to not cooperate but to make sure that the playing field is level and that you are not tricked by professional tricksters.

 

[Whisperer]

I see no reason for innocent parents of missing children to need criiminal defense attorneys. In every case I've seen, the criminal defense attorneys tell the parents to not talk and if they do, they will only answer certain questions approved by them.

The Criminal defense attorneys put a stop to LE getting the truth out and finding the baby. The attorneys are not interested in finding the child but are very much interested in keeping the parents quiet.

If you all want to start on the Constitutional Rights again, have at it. Personally, my thoughts on finding the child trump the darn rights of the parents and their need for a criminal defense attorney. This card has been over played by many a parent in the search for their child.

 

[Whisperer]

Sergio is a dental hygienist.

If they require a license in Az, I haven't seen him listed as having one..