AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #13

[cluelessinNY]

If I were a perp, and I knew the public thought hiring a lawyer showed guilt, I would not hire one immediately.

However, I have heard Marc Klass say hiring an attorney in a case like this is wise. It probably is, but I would not think that way. I also have no money to hire a lawyer.

I totally agree and as much as I want believe otherwise, IMO, that's what's I believe is happening in this case. The Celis' were aware of that if they lawyered up, there'd be a presumption of guilt. IMO, that's another reason they resisted going to the media. They knew they'd be picked apart. IMO, they've everything opposite of all the cases we've seen previously, where a parent(s) were seen as/ were guilty. I think that's the reason RC said something to the effect "we don't want to mess this up" when talking about media interviews. Mess what up?

Again all my opinion and speculation.

Also all of these fundraisers, supposedly to pay for searches are more for funds to pay for defense.

 

[Whisperer]

That is wise. False confessions are an epidemic in my profession, they happen more than people want to admit. You stand ZERO CHANCE even as an innocent person, against seasoned interrogators who are trained to confuse and disorient you to the point you say things you dont even realize you are saying. An attorney is there to prevent that, not hide the truth or get you to not cooperate but to make sure that the playing field is level and that you are not tricked by professional tricksters.

yeah, I noticed how well that worked in the Lisa Irwin Case, the Anthony Case and the Haleigh Cummings case. IMO, the playing board is taken away, not level.

 

[Eileen730]

Thank you! You are very sweet and back at ya' BDE!!!



But the video shows that a totally unrelated man was arrested for the murder of Coralrose after he was arrested for burglary and he had ti submit his DNA to the system and it matched the DNA found in the little girls' body. (6 year old Coralrose was dragged from her bed at night. Her body was found a little while later).

There's no mention in the link about her dad being arrested for child *advertiser censored*. I'm confused!!!

Here ya go!

Father is a perv and knew the man that was arrested!


confidential informant has told investigators that he witnessed murder suspect Patrick Dewayne Murphy assault and rape Coralrose at Murphy’s home in North Port.

The informant says he was at the home — two miles from where Coralrose’s body was found — on the night she reportedly disappeared.

The man said that three young girls and a boy were at the home and that a man at the home, Edward Chinnici, offered the children $10 to have sex with each other, according to a search warrant.

Chinnici videotaped that sex act, then the informant said he saw Murphy strike Coralrose and rape her.


http://www.heraldtribune.com/articl...murder-of-Coralrose-videotaped-informant-says


Horrible!

Fathers can be the bad guy!
Sorry if i went off topic but this little girl went issing fro her bedroom also!


Horrible!

 

[liz b.]

Do both parents have to agree to let a child be interviewed without their presence? I would think so but I don't know the law.

Did LE say that the 14 tear old had been "interviewed " ? Or was he taken to the house to do some type of reinactment ? Maybe to reinact the events of that night. I'm guessing the latter. Because the thing is : we were told what time Isabel went to bed.We were told that RC went to bed before Isabel did. But nothing at all has been said about when SC or the two boys went to bed. And I am thinking that this is significant... MOO

I always thought that LEOs do not actually interview kids ? They have personnel with training in child psychology who conduct interviews with kids. I know the FBI does, and I think local LE would too ? MOO

 

[Whisperer]

I totally agree and as much as I want believe otherwise, IMO, that's what's I believe is happening in this case. The Celis' were aware of that if they lawyered up, there'd be a presumption of guilt. IMO, that's another reason they resisted going to the media. They knew they'd be picked apart. IMO, they've everything opposite of all the cases we've seen previously, where a parent(s) were seen as/ were guilty. I think that's the reason RC said something to the effect "we don't want to mess this up" when talking about media interviews. Mess what up?

Again all my opinion and speculation.

Also all of these fundraisers, supposedly to pay for searches are more for funds to pay for defense.

I think so too. I am sure their community is going way above the norm in giving money to help them.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I think you are correct, Pax. I'm trying to say that, to me, innocent people do not think of lawyering up. If LE came to my door right now, and wanted to question me about an incident, I would speak freely and willingly. NEVER would I give a thought to a lawyer, trusting in LE. They are only talking to me, right. Then, I find a neighbor has said they saw ME committing a crime. I can see it would get messy, and I could get charged for my doppelganger's crime. But at the initial contact with LE, I would never even think *I* could be in trouble! I think that is were some people DO get in trouble.

In any case, it is true, we the public, do jump to conclusions, though I try not to. Gut feelings are often right though, even if they do not hold up in court!

I dont want to suggest that people should not trust the police, there are many fine people who are police officers but they are not your friends and buddies when they are involved in an investigation, YOU just said yourself that YOU DONT UNDERSTAND why some people say the things that they do, TAKE THAT IN TO CONSIDERATION when you are speaking to police, THEY ZERO IN ON EVERY SINGLE LITTLE WORD YOU USE and if you are not precise or well versed in the english language and most Americans are not, you can find yourself in hot water in a hurry even if you are innocent just because you express yourself in a certain way, which to you may sound innocent but to a seasoned interrogator who is trained to zero in and everything you say and READ BETWEEN THE LINES of everything you say, what you think you are saying may mean something entirely different to a cop. This is why you have an attorney, we have a knowledge of what WORDS MEAN and what words should be used in any given situation and how some words or phrases that to most everyone seem innocent could trigger a red flag to a professional interrogator.

 

[Whisperer]

I repeat there is no need for innocent parents to hire a Criminal Defense Attorney...unless arrested and charged. This has always been my opinion...and will remain so. I want these children found and if LE even think the parents did it, I want them interrogated to the fullest extent.

 

[~n/t~]

Doesn't it all depend on how the fund was created? In other words, if the fund is for the searches, can the parents use it for a defense attorney? I would think the community (donors) would be really angry if that happened.

 

[liltexans]

If Sergio doesn't have an attorney by now, then maybe he is innocent. I think if ever there's a time to get an attorney, now might be it for Sergio. If I were denied all contact with my children, I'd definitely get an attorney.

By the way, Happy Mother's Day, everyone!

 

[cluciano63]

In the case of the 13-yr old girl in CA, Jessica, LE went to her school to obtain DNA from her classmates. Why can't they talk to the boys, if they need to? I can swear I have seen other cases when children were witnesses and were interviewed early on. I have read on some legal sites that LE does not need permission from parents when interviewing children as witnesses...does anyone know for sure?

 

[~n/t~]

I repeat there is no need for innocent parents to hire a Criminal Defense Attorney...unless arrested and charged. This has always been my opinion...and will remain so. I want these children found and if LE even think the parents did it, I want them interrogated to the fullest extent.

If after a month their sole focus is on me and I know I had nothing to do with my child's disappearance, you bet I'd get an attorney.

 

[Whisperer]

I dont want to suggest that people should not trust the police, there are many fine people who are police officers but they are not your friends and buddies when they are involved in an investigation, YOU just said yourself that YOU DONT UNDERSTAND why some people say the things that they do, TAKE THAT IN TO CONSIDERATION when you are speaking to police, THEY ZERO IN ON EVERY SINGLE LITTLE WORD YOU USE and if you are not precise or well versed in the english language and most Americans are not, you can find yourself in hot water in a hurry even if you are innocent just because you express yourself in a certain way, which to you may sound innocent but to a seasoned interrogator who is trained to zero in and everything you say and READ BETWEEN THE LINES of everything you say, what you think you are saying may mean something entirely different to a cop. This is why you have an attorney, we have a knowledge of what WORDS MEAN and what words should be used in any given situation and how some words or phrases that to most everyone seem innocent could trigger a red flag to a professional interrogator.

I am all to familiar that you know what the words mean. I also think LE is capable of explaining the words to the parents if they ask. Usually the questions are pretty simple. Did you harm your chid, do you know who did, do you know where she is? Then they start asking questions about their habits and what they were doing at the time of the crime.

If at this time the parent wants an attorney, then oh well, game over...child will not be found unless someone stumbles on the body.

 

[Azcrabcakes]

I dont want to suggest that people should not trust the police, there are many fine people who are police officers but they are not your friends and buddies when they are involved in an investigation, YOU just said yourself that YOU DONT UNDERSTAND why some people say the things that they do, TAKE THAT IN TO CONSIDERATION when you are speaking to police, THEY ZERO IN ON EVERY SINGLE LITTLE WORD YOU USE and if you are not precise or well versed in the english language and most Americans are not, you can find yourself in hot water in a hurry even if you are innocent just because you express yourself in a certain way, which to you may sound innocent but to a seasoned interrogator who is trained to zero in and everything you say and READ BETWEEN THE LINES of everything you say, what you think you are saying may mean something entirely different to a cop. This is why you have an attorney, we have a knowledge of what WORDS MEAN and what words should be used in any given situation and how some words or phrases that to most everyone seem innocent could trigger a red flag to a professional interrogator.

I have had my eyes opened. I will try to remember all this if anything ever happens to me! Yikes!

 

[PAXIMUS]

yeah, I noticed how well that worked in the Lisa Irwin Case, the Anthony Case and the Haleigh Cummings case. IMO, the playing board is taken away, not level.

So what is the alternative? Do you suggest people should not have a right to defend themselves, I know it is an unpopular belief but if the police, who happen to have UNLIMITED RESOURCES AT THEIR DISPOSAL with which to prove a case, cant prove a case with those UNLIMITED RESOURCES then the accused should walk, it really doesnt matter in our system of jurisprudence if a person is guilty or not, ALL THAT MATTERS is whether the state can prove it and if they cannot then the accused should walk free, that is the only way to protect the rights of those who are falsely accused and to prevent this country from becoming a police state where you can have your doors kicked in be thrown in prison and never get a chance to defend yourself. Does this mean some really ****** people are going to get away with doing some very bad things, like Casey for example? Yes it does, but it also means that those who are WRONGFULLY ACCUSED stand a better chance of not being WRONGFULLY IMPRISONED and I dont know about you but I cant think of anything worse than an innocent person being taken away from their loved ones and locked up in a cage like an animal for something they did not do, SO IF IT MEANS that TEN GUILTY have to walk free to ENSURE that one innocent person is not wrongfully convicted, then yea, I will take it. In the case of Casey for example, I think she was guilty, I do NOT think the state proved first degree murder and therefore I had no real problem with the verdict, it sucks but the safeguards that we have to prevent the innocent from going to prison ARE IMPORTANT and unfortunately sometimes those safeguards will bite us in the *advertiser censored* and allow some really bad people's actions to go unpunished. I have studied the law all of my life and I have yet to find a better system anywhere. It has its flaws but it is the best man has thought up at this time.

If the state cant prove guilt then so be it that is just the way it is and I have no problem with that and if you are ever wrongfully accused I would suggest you wont either.

 

[marazul]

I have a pretty good nose for detecting when someone is gay, I have a gay brother, I really dont see it in Sergio but I guess you ladies would probably be in a better position to make that call. I see a well dressed, well spoken, well educated and well rounded man, ON THE SURFACE, I am pretty much the same way and most certainly not gay but in private among friends I am not above being an insenstive prick and telling offensive and filthy jokes. People are complicated animals.

I am Latina, I have "gaydar" and a gay uncle. My "gaydar" fails me with educated or artsy Latino men, and European men, especially those 40+. We mentioned in an early thread that these cultures almost adopt an effeminate style to subconsciously separate themselves from the 'working class'. I see Sergio as effiminate, not sure if I see him as gay.
Where I could see it is in searching for an answer to "what might the family have to hide that would cause distance between the parents but let them still be friendly enough to live together and go to their kids games together ?" maybe SC is gay. And what might cause the police to take away his right to see his sons that is a cause for concern but not enough to arrest him or publicly announce him as THE POI? Possibly gay *advertiser censored* of legal but young males.

Like many if us who have been abused by relatives tend to suspect that particular relative (uncle, stepfather), those of us who have had personal experiences draw from them, and in the 80s, my uncle almost lost visitation with his daughter because back then, the court system entertained such nonsense like thinking a gay man is more likely to be a pedophile. ( even though his child was female..) now we know better, but just saying.
We have so little to go on, we have 1. They seem like loving parents 2. The parents seem to have some distance between them 3. Sergio seems to have feminine traits 4. Sergio is not allowed contact w his sons but has not been arrested in isa's disappearance , so I am just trying to find ways to make that fit.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

If they require a license in Az, I haven't seen him listed as having one..

Sergio mentioned in a media interview that he worked in a dental surgical facility. I searched AZ dental licensing site and found nothing to indicate that Sergio is licensed in any dental field.

 

[Nana46]

As per my usual, I am going with the parents are innocent in this case of Isabel.....I just can't wrap my head around either of them being guilty...and if it proves they are, oh well....I don't mind being wrong....I will be highly upset and worried but I am used to being that as well......my heart tells me to follow them being innocent. We all know our hearts and our heads can be very different, IMO.

 

[callyn]

Sergio mentioned in a media interview that he worked in a dental surgical facility. I searched AZ dental licensing site and found nothing to indicate that Sergio is licensed in any dental field.

I believe he is an assistant in an oral surgery office.

ETA: No license needed, at least when I worked at that same job. I just had to know what I was doing.

 

[marazul]

I repeat there is no need for innocent parents to hire a Criminal Defense Attorney...unless arrested and charged. This has always been my opinion...and will remain so. I want these children found and if LE even think the parents did it, I want them interrogated to the fullest extent.

I respectfully disagree. If I was a suspect in a crime that I did not commit, or was being aggressively investigated as a possible suspect, I would RUN to get an attorney, to protect myself and if the investigation was about my child, then even more so because I would need that professional to get me cleared so that my child could be found. Even the smartest among us do not comprehend the ins and outs of investigative training, and can get caught up on technicalities that an attorney would know how to avoid or handle. Especially being a minority in the south, if an officer looks at me funny I would get an attorney. Sorry, it's really my strong opinion.

 

[katydid23]

Growing up, I saw what can happen when LE zeros in on an innocent person and charges them with a felony. It is not a purposeful thing, in most cases. Sometimes the evidence can falsely point to an innocent person. But if that person says stupid or awkward things in an interrogation, that can mean the difference between charges or no charges.

When my son was 16, his girlfriend ran away from home. The cops came over here and I gave them permission to search our home. They took a cursory look and were satisfied she was not here. They interviewed my son. He said he didnt know where she was,but I thought he might have been lying to them.

After they left he admitted that he did know where she was, safe at her girlfriends home, but her dad had hit her and so she ran away. She took off because her parents found her birth control and were very mad and were threatening to send her to boarding school. She was an all A student and a prize winning equestrienne. They also took away her beloved horse. And they both had slapped and punched her.

The parents began calling our home and yelling at me. I understood their pain, but did not know what to do. If they were hitting her, why would I send her back home?

And, imo, getting birth control was a responsible decision, not one that anyone should be punished for. The kids had dated for over a year, and were in 'love', and were very good to each other. So I was not in agreement with their punishing response.

But in any event, it was a very difficult legal situation, as they kept pointing LE in OUR direction. And I began to worry for my son, because he planned on applying for the police academy at some point, and he did not need a legal entanglement that was not of his doing, on his record. And we were not hiding her, nor enabling her. So I did call an attorney, my brother, and found out what my legal requirements were in this case. And I was not legally responsible for sharing the whereabouts of the runaway, because she was in a safe environment with a safe adult in charge and was running from a situation that she decided was dangerous. And my brother called the home that was 'harboring' her, and convinced them to call CPS and get a family intervention started so they could get back on track. Eventually the family went to mandated counseling, and they grew to love our son, as the kids dated for a couple more years.

Anyway, even though my legal counsel helped me shield the truth from the parents for a little while, it was all revealed eventually, in a productive way.