AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #13

[oceanblueeyes]

Please read oceanblueeyes's post about her friend. DFS did precisely that to a friend of hers who was suicidal: immediate removal from the family home, no contact with the children, etc.

I really think DFS understood my friend's pain and wanted the best for her. She holds no grudge against them. In fact she says they probably saved her life.

They gave her the wake up call she needed. Nothing gives a parent more incentive to get mentally healthier than taking their children from them.

IMO

 

[~n/t~]

Seems it's been edited. I saw it earlier. They probably got calls from concerned readers. :waitasec:

Yup I see they updated it 10 minutes ago.

 

[insatiable]

Please read oceanblueeyes's post about her friend. DFS did precisely that to a friend of hers who was suicidal: immediate removal from the family home, no contact with the children, etc.

I did read her post. I also know parents who have been depressed/suicidal. They did not lose all contact with their children, or ANY contact for that matter. If it was bad enough to have no contact with the children then SC would be hospitalized just like oceanblueeyes friend was. As far as I can tell SC is not hospitalized. I think if that was the case someone would be reporting that by now.
IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Not to quote myself...but Pacheco's words make me think more along the lines of something to do with Isabel's case-NOT to do with Dad feeling blue...JMO

I just think it means they learned about this because they are in the middle of investigating Isa's disappearance.

In my friend's case once she began to make suicidal threats her husband had no choice but to call LE about it and that is when DFS got involved. He had begged her to seek help before he made this drastic step and at that time she refused. He was trying to save his wife's life but he also did not want his children to be in that environment either. He knew the children would be alone with their mom at times.

So Becky may have called LE herself. I certainly wouldnt blame her if she did.

I am not saying this IS the reason and even NG said this could be one of the reasons for barment. IMO, it is not about their sons being in danger from Sergio because if that had happened and Becky and Sergio let it go on inside the home neither one would have been able to keep the boys and they would have removed from the home. And if he had tried to harm the boys he would have been arrested.

 

[CinnamonGirl]

Isabel's mother dealing with heartbreak on Mother's Day
http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/...abel-celis-deals-with-tragedy-on-motherss-day

I found this part very interesting...


No real mention of Sergio here. IMO her statement about being together as a family means her, the boys and Isa. JMO though

Yes but she found the strength to post on FB a happy mother's day on her wall. I am sorry but if my child is missing, I would be too distraught to be posting on FB. And she seems to be on there everyday. To me she is the hinky one and the controller. To me SC is the emotional one and numbs his emotions with alcohol.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I did read her post. I also know parents who have been depressed/suicidal. They did not lose all contact with their children, or ANY contact for that matter. If it was bad enough to have no contact with the children then SC would be hospitalized just like oceanblueeyes friend was. As far as I can tell SC is not hospitalized. I think if that was the case someone would be reporting that by now.
IMO

I dont think the media would report it if he was in treatment, insatiable. That is very confidential information that even the media shies away from. No mental health doctor or treatment center would release any information on any patient they may have.

IMO

 

[Madeleine74]

The no contact order has to be connected in some way to Isa's case, otherwise outside of RC making a direct complaint to police or one of the kids, nothing would have occurred. It is within the context of Isa 'missing' that all of this is unfolding. Of course it's all connected. LE said this action was the result of information learned during the course of their investigation. That's as clear a signal as any they've given.

It doesn't tell us what happened to Isa, but what we can see by the actions/activity is that there is drama within the family and the scenario of a "kidnapper/abductor" seems unlikely.

Watch actions instead of trying to decipher MSM and other published verbiage to see the direction a case is heading.

- Where is LE spending their time? With the family and inside the house or out in the community looking for sightings and leads and passing out flyers and conducting searches? (hint: interviewing family over and over, searching inside the house).

- Has TPD issued a warning to parents that some kidnapper is loose in their community? (No).

- Has TPD said anything to indicate there is someone dangerous lurking in that community waiting to enter a house to snatch away a child? (No).

What do their actions indicate? That's the real story IMHO.

 

[Lava]

IMO - If SC can't be around his children because of emotional issues, I would think that at least RC would say something along the lines of "Sergio is having a really difficult time dealing with all of this, and we are just trying to do what is best for the boys" because she has to know what this information would make everyone think. And they already said they didn't want the attention on them, this would be the best way to explain and let SC get help, if that were the case.

I could see CPS removing children from a parent who is severely depressed and suicidal and needs intensive treatment. However, I think depression and even some thoughts of suicide are normal when dealing with grief, and I have a hard time believing CPS would intervene in this way because of this.

 

[huckleberryhound]

One reason that they might cut off contact between Sergio and his sons is if one or both of the boys has said things to police recently that would implicate their father in Isabel's disappeance. They would not want him to influence or intimidate them. If that's the case I would expect an arrest soon.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The no contact order has to be connected in some way to Isa's case, otherwise outside of RC making a direct complaint to police or one of the kids, nothing would have occurred. It is within the context of Isa 'missing' that all of this is unfolding. Of course it's all connected. LE said this action was the result of information learned during the course of their investigation. That's as clear a signal as any they've given.

It doesn't tell us what happened to Isa, but what we can see by the actions/activity is that there is drama within the family and the scenario of a "kidnapper/abductor" seems unlikely.

Watch actions instead of trying to decipher MSM and other published verbiage to see the direction a case is heading.

- Where is LE spending their time? With the family and inside the house or out in the community looking for sightings and leads and passing out flyers and conducting searches? (hint: interviewing family over and over, searching inside the house).

- Has TPD issued a warning to parents that some kidnapper is loose in their community? (No).

- Has TPD said anything to indicate there is someone dangerous lurking in that community waiting to enter a house to snatch away a child? (No).

What do their actions indicate? That's the real story IMHO.

BBM

Hi Madeleine!

The two parts I have bolded doesnt mean anything to me.

LE NEVER came out and warned the community that a predator was in their midst when John Couey was on the loose or Joesph Duncan for 7 long weeks or in Danielle Van Dam's case nor in Somer Thompson's case. In fact I am trying to remember one case where they warned the community when a child was kidnapped and cant think of any at the moment.

I cant begin to count the cases where LE never warned the community about a stranger being in the area abducting children or murdering innocent adult victims.

LE even had the audacity to come out before the murders were solved and put the community at ease by saying the Husted family was targeted by someone they knew when the TRUTH was they did not know the murderer whatsoever and he had been breaking into homes in that area before he finally murdered the Husted parents.

Same thing happened in the Sara Walker case and she was murdered by a complete stranger.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Yes but she found the strength to post on FB a happy mother's day on her wall. I am sorry but if my child is missing, I would be too distraught to be posting on FB. And she seems to be on there everyday. To me she is the hinky one and the controller. To me SC is the emotional one and numbs his emotions with alcohol.

A controlling woman? Youre breaking new ground here. Gotta be the man, we are only nice on the first date then we morph in to a cyclops.

 

[insatiable]

I dont think the media would report it if he was in treatment, insatiable. That is very confidential information that even the media shies away from. No mental health doctor or treatment center would release any information on any patient they may have.

IMO

I agree that the doctor or treatment center wouldn't release info. They are not allowed to. But most of the time info does find a way of leaking out. I disagree with you though when it comes to the media. I don't think they would keep it a secret if they found out. IMO
I know you posted about your friend and what happened in her situation. But I don't believe what happened in that situation is very common. I know many mothers and fathers who have had issues and still were able to have contact with their kids. Parents who have abused and/or neglected their children still have contact.
IMO this is not what is going on.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IMO - If SC can't be around his children because of emotional issues, I would think that at least RC would say something along the lines of "Sergio is having a really difficult time dealing with all of this, and we are just trying to do what is best for the boys" because she has to know what this information would make everyone think. And they already said they didn't want the attention on them, this would be the best way to explain and let SC get help, if that were the case.

I could see CPS removing children from a parent who is severely depressed and suicidal and needs intensive treatment. However, I think depression and even some thoughts of suicide are normal when dealing with grief, and I have a hard time believing CPS would intervene in this way because of this.

If only they had done this in Andrea Yates' case all five of her children would be alive today. I do think CPS is more vigilant nowadays when it comes to these kind of issues that may be going on with one of the parents.

IMO

 

[Madeleine74]

I don't think there will be an arrest until there is enough evidence for the DA to ascertain that s/he can prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury. The state gets one bite of the apple and most DAs are not going to squander that opportunity. There's no statute of limitations on murder, so they can take as long as is needed.

That doesn't mean LE doesn't have a realistic and accurate sense of what went down, but knowing it and getting enough evidence to prove it are two different things. These cases take time unless there's an outright confession.

 

[spoiledmom]

Police are not separating the boys from Sergio because of Sergio's depression. LE has been suspicious of Sergio through this whole case and they are watching him closely. They have their reasons. I'm sure it will be out in the public soon.

 

[~n/t~]

One reason that they might cut off contact between Sergio and his sons is if one or both of the boys has said things to police recently that would implicate their father in Isabel's disappeance. They would not want him to influence or intimidate them. If that's the case I would expect an arrest soon.

I believe that would be the most likely scenario. My other thought was Sergio having control issues. He wanted the boys back at school, he wanted the boys to start playing ball again he wanted the family to move on.

These kids are not robots. They're human beings. Children themselves. He can't just turn off a switch and everything will be happy and good again. No doubt they miss their sister tremendously. The older brother probably having some guilt for not being there to protect his sister and the younger one closer to Isabel's age may have played with her and misses her a lot. These children are probably suffering unbearable grief as well.

I said it when the parents were interviewed and I'm saying it again. 2 weeks was way too soon to get these kids back to normalcy. Perhaps Sergio pushed them and it was just too much for these kids to handle and they may have confronted him and he was not pleased.

I'll let you all think about the reasons he wanted them back to normalcy. I have my theory. My theory includes one of the boys hearing and/ or seeing something. I think Isabel was a victim of rage.

MOOO

 

[cluciano63]

I wonder if something dubious was found on Sergio's computer, for instance. LE could not make an arrest right away, if this was the case, as it takes time to figure out if it was put there by that person, or if others had access or if it was downloaded in error, etc...I don't think we know yet, almost 18 months later, the story about *advertiser censored*, etc. on the devices in Hailey Dunn's case. Anyway, not saying this is the case by any means, but something like this, something found while investigating the crime of Isabel's disappearance makes more sense to me than Sergio being emotional. Standard of proof for CPS is not that high, kids could be protected while LE works for more info on whatever it is they may have found. If anything.

JMO

 

[Eileen730]

Was the older IC murdered by someone in Sergio or Becky's families?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The older IC murdered a woman and is in jail for 26 years

!One of the suspects said she was killed because she was seeking the return of a loan Isabel Celis.Celis, 51, of Paso Robles; her son, Miguel Celis, 29, of Lost Hills; and Javier Chavez, 24, of Paso Robles, have been charged with murder in the case.



http://archive.newtimesslo.com/archive/2003-12-10/whatsnews/index.html



I found a Miguel Celis related to Sergio!

 

[jennapuppy]

Yes but she found the strength to post on FB a happy mother's day on her wall. I am sorry but if my child is missing, I would be too distraught to be posting on FB. And she seems to be on there everyday. To me she is the hinky one and the controller. To me SC is the emotional one and numbs his emotions with alcohol.

Did her post mention anything about missing Isa?

 

[Lava]

Did her post mention anything about missing Isa?

All but the mothers day posts have been about Isabel. I don't really see a problem with it. They all come from her phone, she could be on her way to print out more flyers, an event, at home taking care of her boys...all while doing this in 2 seconds. It isn't like she is sitting in front of a computer acting like everything is normal.