AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #13

[Prof]

I saw one DUI many years ago when SC was young.

 

[prima.facie]

Part 2, of what I was trying to say about defense attorneys:

They have investigators that will try and find evidence that will clear you of the crime. As opposed to the homicide investigators, who sometimes get tunnel vision and try to show that you are the guilty party. So if you are claiming that you went shopping at the key time of the alleged crime, it behooves you to have your own investigators trying to prove that for you, as they may look harder and longer for surveillance footage to clear you.

I am new here and have spent most of the weekend reading posts here and following this story which I followed over from a now closed site. This thread grows so darn fast I feel like I cannot ever log out. Slow down!!:giggle:

Anyways, I wanted to address this post which also covers a few others made. It is hard for me to find anything new to say, all of you cover every thought imaginable rather well......

I worked for a private investigation firm, before returning back to school to further my LE career. While most people think PIs work on catching cheating spouses only (lol) our main and biggest clients are attorneys.

So, while some may feel there is zero need to hire an attorney right off the bat, I will back the others that say it is in your best interest to do so! Your attorney will do their own investigative work (usually via a PI) and will work with LE when needed. They also have resources, less constraints and non-political means of obtaining information. Any LE will understand what I mean. lol Also having them there to help address any legal issues and even terms being used by LE that you may not understand.

It is just always good to have as many people on your side as possible [working for you, so to speak]. LE has one goal: find truth. They are not your friend, your buddy, nor your shoulder to lean on. They must (while not always) remain absolutely neutral and push hard to find that truth. And in cases like this, this means pushing hard on YOU THE PARENT in order to find that truth. That is not an easy position to be in for a guilty or innocent parent. It will take its toll on you! Having an attorney and/or PI on your side will only help you.

And while public opinion may gasp and throw arrows at you for doing so, screw them: you must look out for yourself and your family first! Deal with them later! You need to use everything in your power to find your child and show you are innocent.

...Just my thoughts....

ETA: I also think that having an attorney by your side who can aide in their own investigations (either themselves, assistants or PIs) well, many people are afraid of talking to actual LE, but will talk to someone who is not LE. You can at times get people to open up and share more with a "civilian" rather than a cop. So if you feel LE aren't doing enough or a case is going cold or whatever, your attorney or PI can start questioning people, snooping around and whatever info they get and [hopefully record] can be used in court as a witness if it comes to that. Just an observation I have made on experience. I just strongly believe that having an attorney in the beginning will only help, not hinder.

****
With all of that said, I think mom and dad are hinky and either both or one or the other knows exactly what happened to little Isa.

BTW....this is a great place

 

[GrainneDhu]

Here's the thing that puzzles me, the point about the parents "no longer living together." CPS cannot make recommendations to separating the parents, only the minor children. So that leads me to think that this separation was Becky's choice, possibly as a way to shield and protect her boys. Then when LE called CPS, they made the recommendation for no contact by the dad. The question is why? What did Sergio do or say that put the boys' welfare in jeapordy? Had to be something more than just his depression, maybe he made threats to them, or threatened to harm himself in front of them. If he was suicidal they would hospitalize him.
It's not like the boys are 3, 4 or 5 years old. One is 14... hardly a small child, and 10 is old enough to figure out that Dad is very upset and saying things that sound spooky but probably doesn't mean them.
No, Mom took the initiative to separate herself and the boys from their father and CPS stepped in and made it mandatory. No contact, not even supervised visits. That has to mean something more than "I'll get a gun and blow my brains out if they don't find my daughter."

It is far from uncommon for CPS to say "if you don't agree to do this and this and this, we will take you to court and remove your children to a foster home." They can demand that one parent leave the family home or else, for example.

As for hospitalised people who have voiced a suicide threat, it is incredibly difficult to do so. At least in my state, Arizona may be different. All the person has to say is "I was just venting but I'd never do that" and the issue is basically closed.

 

[Nana46]

Welcome prima.facie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Sergio has a job. It's been thoroughly discussed here. He is an assistant in an oral surgery office.

ETA: I am behind in reading... and I keep telling myself not to post until I have caught up because I see my posts can come in at awkward times.. where it sounds like IHAVENOCLUE.
So... I am going to sit on my hands, and not post until I have caught up.

And... I have a feeling even THIS post is going to land at an awkward place, too!

I hope you sleuthers will forgive me.lease:

 

[GrainneDhu]

Yes, it is probably as good a theory as any other right now... MOO

Only thing that's odd is that SC cannot even call his sons at this time. And vice versa. So it's hard to see how the contact order could be about SC's emotional distress, and it not being good for him to be around the boys ? No contact whatsoever is quite extreme. MOO

Hopefully,if SC is drinking too much,and/or using again, he will be able to get some help...MOO

CPS is not in business to protect adults, their mission is to protect the children.

Plus, I doubt that the order will stand for more than maybe a week without a court hearing. Once such an order has been issued, there's a mandatory court hearing within a few days.

It's possible that he could be back with his family within the week.

 

[~n/t~]

Thanks for the link.

Nancy did say one of the reasons he could have been removed is if he is threatening to get a gun and kill himself.

IMO

Could be but I would be really surprised if that was the reason. He seemed to be the one pushing the boys to get back to some normalcy in their lives. School, ballgames, etc. He even attended the fundraiser ballgame and we saw him batting the ball. The last interview with locals, he was ready to get back to work. We saw him at church singing the Ave Maria. I believe there were some opera fundraising events as well. He seemed to be the one moving on for the sake of the family.

Would someone suddenly risk it all by saying they wanted to end their life and risk no contact with their children? I suppose we never know how one reacts in such a situation but it seems unlikely that is the reason, imo. Would someone so distraught actually threaten suicide in front of their family members especially children or would they just do it?

Does he have a weapon?

 

[Robyn623]

Isabel's mother dealing with heartbreak on Mother's Day
http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/...abel-celis-deals-with-tragedy-on-motherss-day

I found this part very interesting...

Rebecca Celis was unwilling to discuss the matter but described how her sons are feeling in the absence of their little sister.

"They're having a hard time. A really hard time," she said Sunday. "They want to be home, they want to be with their sister. They want us to be together as a family and not having her here is just breaking them up."

No real mention of Sergio here. IMO her statement about being together as a family means her, the boys and Isa. JMO though

 

[liz b.]

Thanks for the link.

Nancy did say one of the reasons he could have been removed is if he is threatening to get a gun and kill himself.

IMO

Yes. But not being able to even call or text his sons ? It would seem likely that it is more than SC having emotional distress. JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It is far from uncommon for CPS to say "if you don't agree to do this and this and this, we will take you to court and remove your children to a foster home." They can demand that one parent leave the family home or else, for example.

As for hospitalised people who have voiced a suicide threat, it is incredibly difficult to do so. At least in my state, Arizona may be different. All the person has to say is "I was just venting but I'd never do that" and the issue is basically closed.

It sure wasnt that easy for my friend who's son had died.

As soon as she started saying she wanted to end her life she was removed from the home by DFS and separated from her other three children and husband who cared for the children while she wasnt in the home.

It took her three months of extensive therapy to convince DFS that she was fit to care for the children again. She had to show them a mental health doctor no longer found her severely depressed or suicidal.

DFS did not force her to seek treatment but they did make it one of the conditions in order for her to be back with her children again. So basically they gave her an option she couldnt refuse and now she realizes it was the best thing. She may have never gotten treatment for her tragic loss if not pressured to do so and her other children may have been without a mother today ....along with already losing their sibling. Instead they have their loving mother back who has gone on despite her tragic loss and makes sure she is the mother her other children deserve to have.

IMO

 

[gliving]

Thanks for the link. Yes, there was an article posted that SC is the one who has a no contact order with his sons. I believe it was an ABC News article.

So there will be a news conference today at 2:00. Hopefully, we'll hear more about it.

"Tucson police are expected to have a press conference at 2 p.m. Monday"

Thanks! Bumping so we don't miss it.

 

[insatiable]

I think if it was him feeling suicidal they would still allow supervised visitation or phones calls. To cut off all communication is a bit extreme. Do you know how many children would have no contact with their parents if CPS didn't allow contact because a parent wants to kill themselves?? I'm not buying it. Think about how many mothers suffer from depression and want to kill themselves and still allowed to take care of their children alone, unsupervised. The Dr. gives them a pill and sends them home to their kids. This is not SC feeling depressed.

 

[GrainneDhu]

It sure wasnt that easy for my friend who's son had died.

As soon as she started saying she wanted to end her life she was removed from the home by DFS and separated from her other three children and husband who cared for the children while she wasnt in the home.

It took her three months of extensive therapy to convince DFS that she was fit to care for the children again. She had to show them a mental health doctor no longer found her severely depressed or suicidal.

DFS did not force her to seek treatment but they did make it one of the conditions in order for her to be back with her children again. So basically they gave her an option she couldnt refuse and now she realizes it was the best thing. She may have never gotten treatment for her tragic loss if not pressured to do so and her other children may have been without a mother today ....along with already losing their sibling. Instead they have their loving mother back who has gone on despite her tragic loss and makes sure she is the mother her other children deserve to have.

IMO

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear in what I wrote.

What I meant to say was that it is not difficult to avoid being hospitalised for making a suicidal statement.

Typically, LE or a family member or a friend takes the person who was threatening suicide to the nearest hospital with psychiatric facilities. It's not a slamdunk to get the person admitted, though; the doctor on duty has to be convinced that the person is a clear and present danger to themself or to others.

If the person is calm, dressed appropriately, oriented and seems rational, basically all they have to do is say "I was really upset but I didn't mean that I'd kill myself; I'd never do that."

It's one heck of a lot harder to get the kids back from CPS.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes. But not being able to even call or text his sons ? It would seem likely that it is more than SC having emotional distress. JMO

I dont know. My friend went through this when one of her son's died in a tragic accident.

She could have no contact with her other three children because DFS did not want her to say anything that would worry or upset the children because they were also going through the trauma of losing their brother.

Plus these agencies have to consider the possiblities even if it is slight that when a parent is severely depressed state and possibly threatening to kill themselves they can (both mother and fathers have done so) and have been known to kill their entire families and then themselves.

It is far better to remove the parent and urge they get mental health treatment even if they do it by coersion.

I do not think this is a permanent 'no contact' order.

 

[liz b.]

CPS is not in business to protect adults, their mission is to protect the children.

Plus, I doubt that the order will stand for more than maybe a week without a court hearing. Once such an order has been issued, there's a mandatory court hearing within a few days.

It's possible that he could be back with his family within the week.

Sure. It makes me wonder exactly what LE found ? LE said that something was discovered in the course of their investigation which made them concerned for the continued safety of the two remaining children.

I keep going back to SC's statement : "tell us your demands " MOO

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think if it was him feeling suicidal they would still allow supervised visitation or phones calls. To cut off all communication is a bit extreme. Do you know how many children would have no contact with their parents if CPS didn't allow contact because a parent wants to kill themselves?? I'm not buying it. Think about how many mothers suffer from depression and want to kill themselves and still allowed to take care of their children alone, unsupervised. The Dr. gives them a pill and sends them home to their kids. This is not SC feeling depressed.

Please read oceanblueeyes's post about her friend. DFS did precisely that to a friend of hers who was suicidal: immediate removal from the family home, no contact with the children, etc.

 

[Isabelle]

Not sure if this has already been posted/discussed, but just read this article where it states: CBS 5 News learned Isabel's two brothers were turned over to their biological mother, the ex-wife of Sergio Celis..

Who is the "ex-wife/biological mother" of the boys?

http://http://www.kpho.com/story/18328454/father-of-missing-isabel-can-have-no-contact-with-2-sons

I didn't see anything about 'ex-wife/biological mother' in the article???

 

[gliving]

I didn't see anything about 'ex-wife/biological mother' in the article???

Seems it's been edited. I saw it earlier. They probably got calls from concerned readers. :waitasec:

 

[liz b.]

Could be but I would be really surprised if that was the reason. He seemed to be the one pushing the boys to get back to some normalcy in their lives. School, ballgames, etc. He even attended the fundraiser ballgame and we saw him batting the ball. The last interview with locals, he was ready to get back to work. We saw him at church singing the Ave Maria. I believe there were some opera fundraising events as well. He seemed to be the one moving on for the sake of the family.

Would someone suddenly risk it all by saying they wanted to end their life and risk no contact with their children? I suppose we never know how one reacts in such a situation but it seems unlikely that is the reason, imo. Would someone so distraught actually threaten suicide in front of their family members especially children or would they just do it?

Does he have a weapon?

You really do make some excellent points. Life does go on,and SC seemed to be coping pretty well. I hadn't looked at in this light before. TY...MOO

 

[cluciano63]

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...0be-5d95-8b33-f3eb7b22b0f2.html#ixzz1uoWoT0Xy

"Pacheco said the move was driven by the on-going investigation of Isabel's disappearance."

Not to quote myself...but Pacheco's words make me think more along the lines of something to do with Isabel's case-NOT to do with Dad feeling blue...JMO