AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #14

[nutkin]

Those who are physically dependent on opioids and benzos take very high doses. With increased amounts, they become lethargic and will have slurred speech along with other side effects. When someone is on low doses of a benzo, they don't slur their speech, but the desired effect of decreased agitation can be witnessed. IMO, Sergio's affect was grossly inappropriate for the situation. He should have been agitated. He also misinterpreted that the 911 operator wanted his wife's height and not his daughters and he had difficulty spelling Isabel's name. Perhaps he is normally "goofy" like this, but I doubt it.

Maybe he actually has a prescription for Xanax or Klonopin? That would hardly be an unusual thing as lots of doctors hand those out like candy.

 

[taagean]

Maybe it wasnt him who was involved? And it may not be about drugs, there are other things in the criminal world besides drugs folks.


Sergio is no drug user, I know drug users when I see them, he doesnt sweat enough to be a heavy user. Heavy users sweat a lot, esp in this heat in Az.

BBM

Underage prostitution??

 

[PAXIMUS]

Wondering what facts this is based on?

Personal experience?

 

[cluciano63]

Now it's all starting to click. After watching the police chief and the way he *very carefully* worded some responses and now hearing the 911 call info (about him falling asleep watching TV so that he doesn't have his wife as an alibi) - it's obvious to me that the cops don't believe SC was really home all night. I'm not saying he's necessarily responsible for Isa's disappearance - but it sure doesn't seem that they're buying his story about being home all night.

They aren't buying something...but not sure if it is that, or if perhaps they know RC did not actually sleep there. They were very careful to say she woke up and went to work without checking Isabel, but not that she woke up in the home for example. And if she DIDN'T sleep there, then Sergio could say he slept pretty much wherever he wanted to say.

To add, I am not 100% against Sergio...it is just that the 911 call did nothing to calm my earlier doubts.

 

[melissasmom]

Maybe it wasnt him who was involved? And it may not be about drugs, there are other things in the criminal world besides drugs folks.


Sergio is no drug user, I know drug users when I see them, he doesnt sweat enough to be a heavy user. Heavy users sweat a lot, esp in this heat in Az.

Yeah, I definitely don't think a drug cartel would take a child. Not that I have lots of knowledge about cartels, but seems to me they would just kill you, or your family.

 

[nutkin]

I had a silly thought - really out there.

What if the person/s who took Isa wanted LE to think she was dead? The movie Flatliners came to my mind. Could she not have died then be brought back? And if that happened would the dogs have detected death since the cadaver dogs can really smell death within minutes?

Why send that fear?

As I said it was a silly thought. All in my opinion and weird way of thinking.

Hoping Isabel comes home soon ALIVE!

Cadaver dogs detect the smells of decomposing bodies. If a body hasn't been in a location long enough for any decay to set in, a dog will not hit on it.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Those who are physically dependent on opioids and benzos take very high doses. With increased amounts, they become lethargic and will have slurred speech along with other side effects. When someone is on low dose of a benzo, they don't slur their speech, but the desired effect of decreased agitation can be witnessed. IMO, Sergio's affect was grossly inappropriate for the situation. He should have been agitated. He also misinterpreted that the 911 operator wanted his wife's height and not his daughters and he had difficulty spelling Isabel's name. Perhaps he is normally "goofy" like this, but I doubt it.

It was 8 oclock in the morning they were out late, does everyone wake up that early and have their **** together?

I have no 'facts' to support he is not a user but as Giatnia said, some of us know drug users pretty well and he doesnt show any tell tale signs for that IMO.

 

[writer7]

Mexican drug cartels are much scarier than that theory sounds. They would have asked for ransom had they simply kidnapped the youngest, and the parents would not dare call LE.

More likely for a debt, they would have decapitated a family member or two. Seriously.

They are very much into human trafficking, including for sexual slavery.

I don't think they do anything in the US except ransom kidnapping, generally. I don't know every case, though!


I'm coming to this case late, but I've seen the parents on TV. The dad has been on my radar from the start due to his demeanor. Dude is lying. The 911 tapes didn't surprise me This is all just mho.

 

[amzberry]

My feeling is that SC and RC both think/know she is alive. MOO is that SC organised or indirectly caused this to happen (don't know why/how). I think they must have an idea who has her and why. It is like RC believes it will be over soon and Isa will be home. She doesn't show signs of worrying about her welfare etc. RC posted a pic of Isa on her FB 2 hours ago and simply said "Praying you'll be home soon, mamas" as if she knows eventually she will be home. And yesterday she wished all the Mummas a happy mothers day...idk if I was worried sick about if my daughter was alive, fed, hurt, being abused, with a total stranger etc, I wouldn't be wishing everyone else a happy Mothers day...JMO.

Like someone mentioned above - I think she was genuinely worried on the 911 call, and since then has been informed somehow that she is okay. It is like since the 911 calls they switched roles, her from frantic and worried to calm, and him form calm to (acting) worried. I also agree that it's probably something one of the boys has said that has caused the no cantact order....that, and along with releasing the 911 calls - I wonder if the PD want SC to crack?

 

[Madeleine74]

What if the person/s who took Isa wanted LE to think she was dead? The movie Flatliners came to my mind. Could she not have died then be brought back? And if that happened would the dogs have detected death since the cadaver dogs can really smell death within minutes?

Hmmm. Brain death would only occur after 4 to 5 minutes of no oxygen. If she could be brought back then she wasn't really dead and there wouldn't be cellular decomp starting. And someone would have to have the equipment to bring someone back. Oxygen, defib to restart the heart, etc.

The person has to actually be dead for a long enough period of time. In the 10 minutes to 15 min it takes before the decomp process starts, a person would, by that time, be brain dead (fully and really dead) and not able to be revived.

Flatliners was a creative movie for sure, but it has no bearing on this or any case involving a cadaver dog hit.

 

[nutkin]

Drug users are not always easily detected. I know of very successful people who no one would ever suspect of using drugs, but they do. They don't have slurred speech or sweat or whatever. They hold down steady, high-paying jobs, and have active social lives. They pay their bills on time, etc.

 

[txanmom]

Those who are physically dependent on opioids and benzos take very high doses. With increased amounts, they become lethargic and will have slurred speech along with other side effects. When someone is on low dose of a benzo, they don't slur their speech, but the desired effect of decreased agitation can be witnessed. IMO, Sergio's affect was grossly inappropriate for the situation. He should have been agitated. He also misinterpreted that the 911 operator wanted his wife's height and not his daughters and he had difficulty spelling Isabel's name. Perhaps he is normally "goofy" like this, but I doubt it.

They wouldn't sweat on benzo's would they? I have taken valium and xanax prescribed to me, but I never sweat on them. I just slept (like heaven!!), I didn't abuse them, so I don't know what happens if you take large doses. I asked because Pax said SC would be sweaty and have more overt signs if he was an abuser.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Yeah, I definitely don't think a drug cartel would take a child. Not that I have lots of knowledge about cartels, but seems to me they would just kill you, or your family.

This isnt Mexico they just dont operate with that sort of impunity on this side of the border. We have dont a bunch of beheaded people laying around here in Arizona like they do over there not to mention killing people is messy and usually draws alot of attention.


It doesnt have to be about drugs either, there are all sorts of things criminal cartels are involved in, smuggling exotic animals, fake documents, guns...

 

[marazul]

I don't see signs of an addict in Sergio, doesn't even come across as a recreational user IMO. I have seen plenty of both.

Drug cartels are horrible while fighting for territory with each other in Mexico, and at some border towns, I don't think they are a big thing in Tucson. "Illegals" have enough problems in Arizona, I don't think they want to add kidnapping to the issues. Keep in mind the overwhelming majority of undocumented immigrants are your builders, busboys, landscapers, cooks, and housekeepers, not all of them are coke smuggling criminals. Sounds great for movies, "the big bad illegal Mexican did it!" but I highly doubt any ties at all.

 

[PAXIMUS]

They wouldn't sweat on benzo's would they? I have taken valium and xanax prescribed to me, but I never sweat on them. I just slept (like heaven!!), I didn't abuse them, so I don't know what happens if you take large doses. I asked because Pax said SC would be sweaty and have more overt signs if he was an abuser.

I have never met a person who ABUSED that didnt sweat like a pig, I have also never known a heavy user who still had a voice as beautiful as Sergio's.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

This has surely been quite the day in the disappearance of Isabel Celis, and I don't know what to think any more. I'm almost tempted to say that a dingo did it :couch:

It's past my bedtime, and I must bid the fine peeps here good night . fftobed:

 

[mahoolin]

Didn't listen to the 911 tapes, but maybe SC is not good at thinking quickly on his feet. Maybe something happened to Isabel-maybe even something planned in advance, and he expected RC to check on her that morning....and being in a hurry to get to work early and catch up on some of her charting or knowing Isabel'd had a late nite -she didn't. She wasn't the one to discover Isabel gone like he anticipated, so he had to be. Maybe he was hungover?

I don't think though there would be any ransom request if SC or RC got involved over their heads and it was a serious debt, drugs or such. I don't think serious drug traffickers are interested in ransom. I think they'd just take her to show they meant business.

Not pointing any fingers, just theorizing. I'm not sure about any of this twisted situation.
:twocents:
MHOO

 

[jennapuppy]

Maybe it wasnt him who was involved? And it may not be about drugs, there are other things in the criminal world besides drugs folks.


Sergio is no drug user, I know drug users when I see them, he doesnt sweat enough to be a heavy user. Heavy users sweat a lot, esp in this heat in Az.

Since aliens and coyotes have been mentioned, would they kidnap a family member if they smuggled someone across the border and weren't paid?

 

[PAXIMUS]

Since aliens and coyotes have been mentioned, would they kidnap a family member if they smuggled someone across the border and weren't paid?

I dont think so, it would need to be about a little more than that...

 

[Pensfan]

I had a silly thought - really out there.

What if the person/s who took Isa wanted LE to think she was dead? The movie Flatliners came to my mind. Could she not have died then be brought back? And if that happened would the dogs have detected death since the cadaver dogs can really smell death within minutes?

Why send that fear?

As I said it was a silly thought. All in my opinion and weird way of thinking.

Hoping Isabel comes home soon ALIVE!

i believe cadaver dogs can begin to smell decomposition after 10 minutes. (Please correct me.) Cerebral death occurs in 5-6 minutes unless the body is extremely cold, e.g., the person fell through the ice into a lake. Isabel would not be revivable at this point.