AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #17

[PlainJaneDoe]

So in the DUI charges I see a list of things with the word "or." Am I wrong to assume that that means he could've been caught with anywhere from 1 to all items on the list? Not that he was necessarily caught with all items listed?

Related but separate, could someone please clarify the usual meaning of the legal term "drug parephenalia"?

 

[txanmom]

IDK but I have been able to get over 6' walls in Phoenix with a tool bag and a drill set and manage to get a 32' ladder over the wall as well.. The perp could have just swung her over the fence and stood her up in the alley.. but at the moment I'm not thinking the perp even went over any walls I think they just went out the gate or the door in the front yard wall or that the window really did not have anything todo with it except being messed with. JMO @ the moment... I have tryed to look at a few angles and it's very hard to remain unbiased at some points because the more you learn about the family and extended family it just makes it a tough call.

I agree.

 

[cluciano63]

On NG that night about the trash can...the guy said it did not have wheels...FWIW

 

[FrayedKnot]

I am very suspicious of Sergio, HOWEVER, I cannot figure out a believable scenario, in which he can make his child disappear that night. The closest I can come is if he snuck into her room in the middle of the night and she resisted and he was angry. But if he killed her, the dogs would have hit on her room, and I don't think that happened.

This, too, has been my biggest problem with this case. I know in my gut that Sergio is the villain, but cannot piece together a scenario that feels right.

One scenario works better than the rest but can't bring that one up.

Still, I just don't see him a pervy dad. And I hope I am right. I mean Sergio is totally cheesy and shady, but I don't get a pedo vibe from him.

JMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Prof]

Ok if you read this it shows that some time passed between the first call when SC says his ten year old is n he garage with his wife, and a SUBSEQUENT call where he talks to dispatch then gives the phone to RC

http://azstarnet.com/online/pdf/tra...pdf_9aaeead6-9e46-11e1-8e9c-001a4bcf887a.html

Yes, well we can hear on Sergio's call that the son is on the other line, and we can hear Becky in both calls.
Sergio's first call overlaps with the neighbor/son/Becky call

We were discussing whether RC had time to get home and search the house during the Sergio call....when Sergio tells the 911 operator RC is home and freaking out-- the son gets home, too

Sergio in house on 911
about 4/5 minutes (my guess-- have not measured) into call operator tells him son is on 911 too --
Neighbor/ son on call--- while Sergio is on 911 call < maybe 1 or 2 minutes they both are on call?
Mom gets home --- Sergio hangs up
Son gets home with 911---calls Mom to phone

It seems there is only a minute or two window where the mother could search, if she said she searched everywhere....
I hope that makes sense.

 

[galiuro]

as one can see from the above mentioned site, one can have different kinds of trash cans; since they are in the alley, then they MAY have one of the larger 2 or 3 household cans (and they're either a dark green or an ugly orange, never black). The wheel around single family cans usually go out on the curb. And yes, one can stand on even the small cans, have done so with my own. Not the most certain of perches but doable in a pinch...

 

[white rabbit]

So in the DUI charges I see a list of things with the word "or." Am I wrong to assume that that means he could've been caught with anywhere from 1 to all items on the list? Not that he was necessarily caught with all items listed?

Related but separate, could someone please clarify the usual meaning of the legal term "drug parephenalia"?

bong, pipe, needle, hookah, papers. why does it matter? he was charged with a crime. i just posted the link. i don't care if it's fifty years old, i have no idea if it's related to the case either...

"Drug paraphernalia is any legitimate equipment, product, or material that is modified for making, using, or concealing illegal drugs such as cocaine, heroin, marijuana, and methamphetamine."

http://www.justice.gov/dea/concern/paraphernaliafact.html

 

[Whisperer]

Can't answer your question, but on NG there appeared to be a large trash bin(s) outside the gate on the alley side (I think). I was just wondering if those just stay out there or do they set them out every week on pickup day like we do. If they set them out, how do they get them out. I guess it would not be via the back wooden gate?

That can is permanent. It doesn't roll. My guess is they have to carry their trash out to it. I haven't seen any other way than the gate. At least now we can figure out how the dogs get out.

 

[gliving]

Anything new today? Thanks

 

[mamamia54]

This is the home floorplan and it looks to me that the only way Sergio could be in a room next to Isa's bedroom wall, would either be in the den, or the familyroom.

 

[Hatfield]

OT
I just want to THANK everyone here at WS. I think it is wonderful how we all have our different points + counter-points, as we try to VETT out things. It is great to hear all opinions and ideas. Thanks to everyone here for their thorough analysis on things.

 

[liz b.]

IMO Google satelite zoomed to street view is the best pic of that gate you are going to get.
IMO there are not big arching swing marks as if it was used. There are no ruts in the gravel there that I can see....
IMO this gate was not used for vehicles if ever used at all.
Did you get a screen shot of that?

Thanks for posting this pic of the house.

IIRC, the house was built in 2006, and the Celis family was the first to live there ? Did they buy the lot,and then have the house built ? I thought I read that it was over 3000 square feet ? Has what,3 bedrooms and maybe 2 baths ? Looking at the pic of the house from the outside, it seems much smaller than the square footage I saw listed.

I read on a post that it cost half a million ? Is this true,and is this a usual price for a house in this neighborhood ? Does it have a lot of extras,like a pool ?

Sorry for all the questions... JMO

 

[SmoothOperator]

Those trash cans are huge and very heavy...a short person has a hard time hoisting garbage bags up and in. They are not easily moved, would take two men, imo. We call the truck that picks up the trash the "robot truck" because of the arm used. I considered weather or not one could climb up on it during that awful NG bit with the poor guy in the alley... I think they are too tall to climb up on.
eta..they are perm out in the alley.

You said it.. It was a pitiful bit for that guy that was doing his damnedest to help report on what he observed regarding the wall and the large black garbage can that at that time was against the back stucco wall.. Nancy was being overly snarky and all out rude and condescending toward the poor dude.. Moo but the reason for Nancy's apparent disgust and irritation with this poor guy, in this specific segment was that as is usual if a persons opinion or view is supporting a different theory than what Nancy believes it to be(in this case a possible entry point onto the property DID NOT COINCIDE WITH NANCY'S TUNNELED VISION OF IT BEING SERGIO THAT IS THE PERP).. Therefor Nancy was at peak level of snark and sneer aimed directly at this poor dude who is doing nothing but his best to report to the viewing audience what the area in and around the Celis home was like..


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

 

[Dr. Know?]

All about Tucson's trash.

http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/es/customer-services-residential-trash

 

[Madame_X]

On NG that night about the trash can...the guy said it did not have wheels...FWIW

They're hard to see, but they're there, particularly when you're familiar with this kind of trash can.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

bong, pipe, needle, hookah, papers. why does it matter? he was charged with a crime. i just posted the link. i don't care if it's fifty years old, i have no idea if it's related to the case either...

"Drug paraphernalia is any legitimate equipment, product, or material that is modified for making, using, or concealing illegal drugs such as cocaine, heroin, marijuana, and methamphetamine."

http://www.justice.gov/dea/concern/paraphernaliafact.html

Thanks, I asked because some posts had addressed "the drug connection," but IMO the drug- related stuff could be very mundane, but I wanted to check that against an actual legal definition.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

As a single woman living alone, this person has bothered me. Either the voices she heard are a regular occurrence, or maybe she was in on it. Do we know anything about her? I cannot imagine hearing noises in the space between my house and another at 6:30 in the morning and not looking out to see what it was.

I can't believe she just went back to sleep. I would be asking them who they were and why they were that near my house. Guess, I am just too scary. jmo

No, not that I am aware of Mck.

A lot of what she says gives me pause. She made a point to stress the dogs were barking madly yet she said she could hear the men talking and she said they were talking English. When a stranger comes to our door and the dogs start barking like crazy I cant hear what the person is trying to ask or tell me and I am standing right there at the door with them.

So how could she even hear anyone talking with the dogs all barking at one time? The men would have to be talking loudly for their voice to rise above the yapping dogs.

And yet as you say she says she hears all this and does even get up and turns back over and goes to sleep.

If this story is true IMO it doesnt have one thing to do with Isa's disappearance.

Sergio certainly wouldnt be removing Isa (which the neighbor said she never heard) at daylight knowing he was recognizable in his neighborhood.

It makes me think she embellished her story for her 15 minutes of fame. Because if it was that dramatic she would have jumped out of bed to check it out since she lived by herself.

IMO

 

[txanmom]

Thanks for posting this pic of the house.

IIRC, the house was built in 2006, and the Celis family was the first to live there ? Did they buy the lot,and then have the house built ? I thought I read that it was over 3000 square feet ? Has what,3 bedrooms and maybe 2 baths ? Looking at the pic of the house from the outside, it seems much smaller than the square footage I saw listed.

I read on a post that it cost half a million ? Is this true,and is this a usual price for a house in this neighborhood ? Does it have a lot of extras,like a pool ?

Sorry for all the questions... JMO

I don't have the links right this moment, but we went through this last week and it is around 2000-2400 sq ft. Many of the media reports are incorrect and some of the records found online where discovered incorrect. Prof and Patty G sorted me out on it. I will try to go back through the threads to pull the links to the correct stats and floorplans, but I am very SLOW. :blushing:

 

[WhatsupAZ]

The one I'm looking at in the back of the alley in Google street view has rear-wheels and is exactly what we have in Phoenix. We roll it out to the curb on pickup day and roll it back behind the gate (as is mandated by our HOA) afterward.

I just noticed that google picture has wheeled recycle bin type cans, but NF alley footage clearly showed the giant city bins...am I crazy?

 

[gitana1]

I caught one piece of Nancy Grace last night and a caller said....

Remember Zahara Baker's dad when he called 911 and he chuckled also in his call.

What is it with PPL?
What could be humorous about a missing child!

Exactly who Sergio reminded me of. Same tone, same chuckling.

OT video " cat saves kid from Mom" I am sorry PPL i saw this and had to share with you. Wishing the missing children of this forum had these kitties!

Cat Saves Child From Mom - YouTube

I don't get this video!! I understand it's actually a babysitter, but what is the cat saving the kid from? What was the babysitter doing that the cat didn't like?

Just read this absurd article. That there was a Kidnapping which lead to an adoption that is not being disputed instead of automatically annulled is beyond me. Not saying this is related to Isabel..but stuff happens, you know?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/17/world/americas/guatemala-us-adoption/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

There are tons of abductions of children around the world for international kidnapping. But they are abducted from poor or third world countries or regions and sold to Americans, not the other way around. American kids don't need to be abducted to be adopted out. It's cheaper (and easier to avoid detection) to steal a poor Chinese farmer's kid or the child of some poor mom in Guatemala. And where would a child like Isa be taken? What country? Who would adopt her? The whole world knows about this story now. It would not be easy in this day and age to hide the adoption of a newly kidnapped 6 year old.

BBM, do you know or have an idea why she didn't want it to be publicized? I'm just asking out of curiosity.

ETA, ok, I guess no BBM after all! Sorry. I'm asking about Emmett Trapp's mother.

Yeah. I think she was panicked and thought that if his story was publicized/discussed in MSM, it would become real and the fate of the parents of other missing kid cases would be hers - i.e. that she'd never see her son alive again. It was just an odd reaction but I feel I understood why she reacted that way.

Here is another huge concern. She literally had just pulled up based on the phone being handed to her, so how did she search EVERYWHERE according to this.....

Q Okay, now you looked everywhere, under the beds, the closets, everything?

A2 Yeah, I looked everywhere, I even looked ________ (inadible) the windows out of our house. Somebody took the window out of our house.

This doesn't jive for me with the transcript:

Q – Okay. Who's the one that didn't find her, you or your dad?
A – They all, we're all going to find her. My mom just came home from work and my brother's outside and we're all outside look for her.
Q – Okay.
A – Alright, thank you sir.
A1 – No problem.
A – Hey, what was Isa wearing last night? Yeah. She was wearing shorts, bask (ph)…she was wearing an Old Navy American flag shirt.
Q – And what, what's on ‘em?
A – Just the American flag is on ‘em and I think it's navy blue shorts.
Q – Okay.
A2 – (in background) She's my daughter she's not gonna leave.
Q – Anything else that she remembers she was wearing?
A – Here.
A2 – … (inaudible)
A – Here.
A2 – Hello?
Q – Hello ma'am, are you the mom?
A2 – Yes.
Q – Okay, what is your name?
A2 – My name is Rebecca Celis. C-E-L-I-S.
Q – Okay. Anything else you remember she was wearing and her hair?
A2 – Her hair is in braids. It's in little ponytails, I made little ponytails on her head last night before she went to bed.
Q – Okay. And that was a Old Navy uh, shirt with a flag and navy shorts?
A2 – Yes, and she's only fi (ph), she's only six, can you please hurry and get somebody over here.
Q – Okay, officers are already on their way ma'am, we're just gri (ph), getting more information from you, okay?
A2 – Okay.
Q – So who, who noticed her gone, your husband?
A2 – My husband, I went to work this morning at seven and um, I just, and I didn't even come and check on her, I should have come and checked on her.
Q – Okay. Alright. Just take a deep breath okay, I know it's hard.
A2 – Oh no, I can't even … (inaudible).
Q – Does your daughter have any medical conditions?
A2 – No, she has nothing.
Q – I'm sorry, she has what?
A2 – She has nothing, there's no medical conditions. She's healthy.
Q – Okay.
A2 – No allergies, no medical conditions.
Q – Okay. And you…
A2 – She's got…
Q - …didn't hear anything…
A2 - …brown hair…
Q - …at all?
A2 – No. I didn't hear anything at all.
Q – Okay.
A2 – Oh my God.
Q – Just stay with me on the phone, they're almost there, I have some officers on the way, okay?
A2 – Okay. I, I…
Q – Okay, now you looked everywhere, under the beds, the closets, everything?
A2 – Yeah, I looked everywhere, I even looked … (inaudible) the windows out of our house. Somebody took the window out of our house.
Q – Okay.
A2 - … (inaudible) please hurry, please and get here.
Q – They're almost there ma'am, okay?

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18395708/celis-911-call-someone-broke-in-and-grabbed-her

By the time the son gets home during the 911 call, it appears the mom had already arrived. He continues to talk and she does not get on the phone right away. Why couldn't she have been looking right when she got home, before her son came home and she took over the call to 911? We don't know how much time that was but the son stated, "They all, we're all going to find her. My mom just came home from work and my brother's outside and we're all outside look for her."

Also, I saw discussion about the braids issue and that mom was giving "too much detail." She was prompted to ask about Isa's hair at first and she responded that she put it in braids. Then she was asked again if it was in braids. She then responded with detail. What's sinister about that? She's responding to the operator's direct questions and wants to make sure that they know exactly what Isa looks like. Not normal braids but a unique hairstyle. Isn't that normal? I'd want them to know exactly how she appeared so they could ID her fast if found, or spot her in a car or whatever. :moo: