AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #17

[GutFeeling!]

Some observations and feelings I had watching BC speak and pray:

*She is sincere in her belief in her husband. She very purposefully looked at the crowd as she thanked us, for herself, her husand, her sons and Isabel.

*She appears to be very calm, grounded and strong, with grace. Someone mentioned that the image of her during their first presser looked like La Pieta, it is true. I can understand why I keep hearing about how much people love her; she really has a strong presence.

*The boys were there, but she didn't have them stand next to her, holding the banner. I assume to keep them out of the public eye, which I absolutely respect.

*There were lots of Celis family members present. There is a very striking resemblance in the family members. BC's brother was there, as well as some of her family members, too.

I recorded her prayer. I listened to it on the way home and what I didn't notice at the time, but heard on the recording is that after she says the prayer, a young child yells out, "We love you Becky!" That feeling was overwhelming at the vigil. There is a lot of love for Becky and the entire Celis family.

Really enjoying reading the real deal - Thank you!

Did you happen to see Uncle Cousin? JM?

 

[johnQpublic]

Well Folk's It's BEEN A LONG DAY working on reasearching this case... Heading to Bed, Once again gonna try to Focus my PRAYERS on truth and justice that Isabel be discovered and brought home... It's perhaps the most productive thing that we sluthers can do other than search for facts and wade thru the guess work. Isabel.... I dedicate this song to you... I hope everyone enjoys it !

Building 429 - Where I Belong [New Song 2011] - YouTube

 

[Anita Richman]

Really enjoying reading the real deal - Thank you!

Did you happen to see Uncle Cousin? JM?

Thank you and you're welcome!

No, but there were so many people there that I didn't realize that BC was in the crowd until we were standing in front of her house. I saw news coverage later and I realized that she was feet from me, but I didn't see her.

The other uncle (BC's brother) was there, too.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Just looking at that picture it reminded me of How I sit on my Flat roof in Tucson during meteor showers and fireworks. Did anyone in le go on the roof?

Good point, Azmary!

I know I am sooo behind.. but this is a point I do not remember anyone making!

The flat roof of the house could be part of the scenario in various ways...

Someone waiting/hiding on roof... Isabel handed up, not down out of the window...
etc.!

JMO

BTW... I would LOVE to have a flat roof to sit on to watch comet showers, fireworks, Super Moons, etc. :smile:

 

[Pensfan]

I don't understand why people are being so rude to each other ,if they do not agree with a member's opinion or theory. Do we really need all of those head-knocking icons against someone else's opinion?

I try to think of the head-banging icons as people who are imitating Angus Young. :rocker:
AcDc 1981. Back In Black - YouTube

 

[GutFeeling!]

I don't understand why people are being so rude to each other ,if they do not agree with a member's opinion or theory. Do we really need all of those head-knocking icons against someone else's opinion?

I do agree with you but at the same time there seem to be a lot of posters that start on the most recent page and ask questions answered the page before - just seems to be more so in the case than others I have followed.

I appreciate peeoples opinions, I really do, even the outlandish ones but gosh make an attempt to keep up to date please.

I have always enjoyed being helpful - finding previous posts, finding video and msm reports but I give up here - awful I know. I understand we have lives outside here and catching up is hard (I am still a couple of pages behind at the moment lol) - I'll be quiet now

 

[Spice-Nine]

I will repeat a statement that I made very early on within days of Isa's abduction ..not only is my opinion the same but more importantly its that I believe at this point the consequences are beyond repairable at this time..

My statement very early on was that if this Celis family truly is actually innocent of their daughters disappearance(that most of us fully realize is very likely her death rather than "disappearance") this Tuscon police Department have done irreparable and IMO at this ppoint unforgivable damage to this family..

Moo is still that I don' believe Sergio and Becky are responsible for Isa's abduction.. I believe that the perp has thus far done an adequate job of covering their tracks.. I do not believe that adequate job will allow him to forever go undetected but I believe LE quite possibly hasn't a damn clue as to what has happened to Isa aand they are hoping like hell that its the parents and that if by God they press hard enough, long enough that it will solve their case miraculously..meanwhile that is their focus and strategy throw as much as they can toward the parents in hopes that the combo of police.. CPS.. media.. and public pressure will crack this family.. ..

Well they've cracked this family alright.. and if it just so happens that my fear is correct this TPD has destroyed a family that were the helpless victims of having their daughter stolen and murdered..

Since the first week of the investigation into Isabel's disappearance, IMO TPD along with FBI and associated behavioral analysts have been guiding much of the Celis' public demeanor and subsequently, the public's perception. I believe this became evident during the Celis' first press conf. when SC questions the "demands" of the person or persons who abducted Isabel. The aloof demeanor of these parents quickly became fodder for public scrutiny. SC was was again criticized for comments he made during another public appearance when he said, "Look at her. She's beautiful". IMO this particular statement may have been scripted by behavioral analysts with a possible intention of prompting an abductor to see and personalize a victim and hopefully reduce risk of harm to Isabel.

Others here have expressed how much of what they hear from TPD or the Celis' simply felt "off" and it likely is. When TPD released information about the cost of their investigation they cited 1 million dollars. I remember reading (either here at WS or other sights frequented by those of us interested in this case) that this was inappropriate and not the type of information usually released or discussed by investigating agencies. I wonder, could this information actually identify a ransom and is information intended for a very particular audience, delivered disguised in a release to the public?

The surveillance video, reported to be recorded in the early morning hours of 4/21/12 revealed an individual lurking behind a wall, who seemingly monitors five people as they walk past the lurker through the parking lot of St. Joseph's. The video was released to MSM and presented with fanfare but within days it was discredited.TPD citing the true recording date as the following night, 4/22/12. The public was told to expect additional surveillance video. To my knowledge, none was released. :waitasec:

IMO TPD/LE engages in verbal sleight of hand, keeping information "close to the vest" while releasing little substantive information to the public. At the same time, TPD calls attention to the case and presents information loaded with enough vague innuendo related to SC and possibly RC to ensure public scrutiny and a frenzy of speculation. Essentially, this shields their investigation and provides cover for a few days. It is brilliant and hopefully, will yield a welcomed result soon, when Isabel is again with her loving family. TPD has only one true loyalty to honor, loyalty to Isabel. If it is necessary for TPD to keep the public at bay to return her to a secure and happy life, so be it.

The Celis' publicly stated they are willing to do anything to have their daughter Isabel returned to them. IMO although unfair, the negative public scrutiny they are enduring, :waitasec:is a price they are willing to pay.
Whether Isabel's abduction was enacted by a person unknown to them or created as way in which to maintain her safety, pray Isabel is home with her family soon.
All of this is simply my opinion.
Thank you for letting me share my thoughts with you.:tyou:

 

[Carpe Pacem]

Thank you to Anita Richman for her careful commentary.
Very much appreciated!

As to Rebecca answering the "any marks or scars" question, my thought is she was thinking of damage/disturbance in the house as a result of an abduction, and says "no," that just the window was involved.

My thought's based on experiential knowledge (seven years working with university level ESL students). Even the ones extremely proficient in English could make that sort of misinterpretation, if their first language was Espanol.

Still hoping hard for little Isabel...

 

[GutFeeling!]

I will say this; I did see SC's brother walking and talking with the male reporter from KGUN. It made me curious about what they were talking about. (And I really wished I had a pair of super spy ears!)

LOL I can just see you with one of those late night TV sales things with the sound booster - two woman eyeing off a guy across the road and he is listening to their compliments LOL I will think of the name in a minute

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

That dispatcher sure didn't ask a good question. Which of you didn't find her? What happened to "Who discovered her missing"?.

Either way, the boy didn't answer the question which would have been invaluable to all.

BBM

I was thinking the same thing...:Who didn't find her?"

It is like saying, "He woke up dead the next morning.":smile:

 

[cluciano63]

I just want to say, people should not be "shamed" for thinking that one or both parents could be involved, as LE is the one who keeps turning the spotlight back on them, then taking it off for a bit, then turning it back on. I always assume LE knows more than I know.

Also, I would like to ask, are Tuscon police notorious for trying to railroad people, or bring false charges? I just wonder, I have never heard anything about TPD either way, but I've seen some comments here as though they are not capable of handling this case. Personally, I am not sure any LE is very adept with missing persons cases.

JMO

 

[Pensfan]

Although CPS is cited as having visited the Celis home in December, I wondered if the visit was related to a complaint placed by the Celis' and not against them. As an RN (mandatory reporter) RC may have encountered reason to report suspected neglect or abuse of a child she had contact with, not necessarily one of her own. If an issue of a child at risk caused her concern it did not have to occur at TMC. As an RN, RC's mandatory reporter status does not cease to exist away from her work environment. I also thought it possible that as a coach in contact with many children, SC may have also encountered a situation with a minor that was cause for concern. I also wonder if the family (either RC or SC) encountered a child endangerment situation and reported their concerns to CPS, a subsequent investigation could have angered those who were reported. Of course, we assume the identity of persons reporting to CPS are protected but it is possible circumstances surrounding a CPS reported incident could be traced to a particular person or family. Depending upon outcome (reported family's child removed from their home, family disruption, marriage dissolution etc) in my opinion it could be the basis for threats against the reporting family and possibly include threats against a reporting family's minor child or children.
Of course, this is opinion and speculation on my part.

When CPS visits/calls upon a home it is in regard to an allegation related to the children or a child in that home. Yes, CPS can interview the neighbors or relatives but in CPS language, visit/calls upon is to determine if there is evidence supporting an allegation. This why LE released that info.

There have been calls to the residence previously,” Hawke commented.”
http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/151941635.html

The Celis family has owned this home since 2006. The word "calls" is plural.

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

 

[GutFeeling!]

I caught up!!!!!!

 

[azmary]

It is my Opinion that SC started the abduction theory. Which he then relayed to his own family. Which is obvious by what the boy states in the 911 call. It just seems too soon to come to the conclusion she was abducted before searching the area for her. Or before letting LE search the area for her.
Once again SC puts distance between himself and IC . He also makes sure his family is using the terms abducted , taken.

 

[Pensfan]

Thank you to Anita Richman for her careful commentary.
Very much appreciated!

As to Rebecca answering the "any marks or scars" question, my thought is she was thinking of damage/disturbance in the house as a result of an abduction, and says "no," that just the window was involved.

My thought's based on experiential knowledge (seven years working with university level ESL students). Even the ones extremely proficient in English could make that sort of misinterpretation, if their first language was Espanol.

Still hoping hard for little Isabel...

Rebecca had just arrived home a few moments earlier and supposedly very quickly looked around while Sergio was having a jovial discussion with the 911 operator. It is interesting that she didn't state, "I don't know" to any question she assumed was related to property damage because she didn't know if there were "scars" or "marks" on their property. She had just arrived home. Hmmm.

 

[Whisperer]

Looks like the pendulum is swinging..

Case is going cold. Here we go again.

The next set of clues will be when they release the search warrant. By that time, conclusions will be drawn and sides will be taken and then the facts on the sheet will not be enough. This isn't my first time at the rodeo. One of these days I will have to decide to stop going to them.

 

[Ransom]

When CPS "visits" a home it is in regard to an allegation related to the children or a child in that home. Yes, CPS can interview the neighbors or relatives but in CPS language, "visit" is to determine if there is evidence supporting an allegation. This why LE released that info.

There have been calls to the residence previously,” Hawke commented.”
http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/151941635.html

The Celis family has owned this home since 2006. The word "calls" is plural.

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

As an ex CPS worker in NM and NOT Arizona, could you cite me some law that that should have been released? I had a mandate to never, ever report to the public anything that CPS did, by LAW. As LE did that (as in this case)... then they were on their own and they broke the law, as far as I am concerned. :moo:

CPS reports are as sacred as Hippa laws where nothing should be released to the public unless in a court of law and with a duly executed court order.:moo:

TIA. The end never justifies the means. We are a nation of laws (made by man). I have always respected and honored those laws.

 

[azmary]

SC states "We woke up" and she's gone. I woke up my sons we looked everywhere in the house.
We woke up then he states he woke the boy's up. Who was We?

 

[Pensfan]

Looks like the pendulum is swinging..

Case is going cold. Here we go again.

The next set of clues will be when they release the search warrant.

They might also release some details of the CPS's safety plan. CPS will likely force dad and possibly mom to get a psych evaluation, undergo random drug screens, and attend parenting classes (anger management?).

 

[gitana1]

In my worst case scenario, I can see a possibility for domestic violence or abuse of some sort, though i don't feel it in my gut. What I have trouble with is that this guy has a respectable job, has a semi professional musical interest, is a little league coach, and yet some people think he is an obvious drug addict, or is dealing drugs, or into other outright criminal activities.. I know everyone dislikes the guy, but c'mon, he is just too busy to be a meth cooker or a crack head!

I totally agree its not that seemingly upstanding citizens can't be creeps ( as some have responded to your post), it's that those heavily involved in drugs usage or trafficking are simply not that involved in other things in life - they are not that busy being involved parents, coaches, opera singers and employees, all at the same time!

little league coach.........leaves a bad taste in my mouth since so many undesirables like to be near kids........
Sandusky comes to my mind.........
we had a few 'coaches' and doctors around here that were into kids..........
I loved all the regular guys that coach children including my own DH who was in it for the right reasons..........
I wonder about a coach and CPS, with a missing daughter...........JMOO

True but her post was about something else.

Excerpt:

FILICIDE: Document with references
The United States has one of the highest rates of filicide with an estimated two-hundred and fifty to three hundred children murdered by their parents each year.
Belief perpetuated by media coverage, fathers kill their children nearly as often as mothers.

While fathers tend to be more violent, both mothers and fathers commit filicide by using highly physical acts, such as beating, drowning, poisoning, shaking, stabbing, or suffocating their children.
“certain ‘craziness’ in both genders—they betray an intense passion and a lack of planning.”

Historically, society has responded to mothers who kill their children in one of three ways –
denial,
adopted a hybrid approach of punishment and denial.
punishment, or prevention.

Fathers dispose of their children’s bodies hundreds of miles away from the home, Mothers dispose of their children’s corpses in or near the home and do so in a "womblike" fashion by swaddling, submerging in water, or wrapping the body in plastic.

Draper, supra note 1.Dahlia Lithwick, When Parents Kill, SLATE, March 12, 2002, http://www.slate.com/id/2063086/Research also shows mothers and fathers differ in the way they dispose of their children’s corpses.

http://motherswhokillchildren.blogspot.com/2011_11_01_archive.html

This is important info so, BUMP.

He does have a long rap sheet!
Ward Cleaver hes not!

He has quite a few traffic violations spanning a few decades, a DUI that was dismissed from several years ago and not much else. Ward Cleaver,no. But his record is far from alarming. I see no "rap sheet" here.

I would think that how ever IC was taken out of the house it would be the door away from the bedrooms.

Smart thought. Makes sense.