AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #19

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white rabbit said:
i didn't see the pc yesterday, but this article is calling it a 'flyer', not a questionnaire...and won't give it to media. wonder if there are questions on it that they don't want us to see? maybe it's on the tpd website?...i'll go look...

http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local...hope-flyer-brings-new-information-celis-case/

Investigators working on the case of missing 6-year-old Isabel Celis will return to the girl's neighborhood and distribute a new flyer to residents and businesses in the hopes of gathering more information about her disappearance, Tucson Police said.

The flyer, which comes one month after Isabel's disappearance, contains a series of questions for those living or doing business in the vicinity of the Celis home in the 5600 block of E. 12th St., said TPD spokeswoman Sgt. Maria Hawke on Monday.

Tucson Police could not provide a copy of the flyer to TucsonSentinel.com on Tuesday morning.
Click to expand...

Because I think each questionnaire is different depending on who gets it?
 
LisaB said:
I did not get that impression at all. I thought he was probably staying with family, and chose his yard as a vantage point to watch the event so that he would not get into trouble. He was not making contact with his kids and was on HIS OWN PROPERTY. He MAY be living in the house, but I did not think the cleaners had come yet.
Click to expand...


I could be wrong. I thought after the 'no contact' announcement it was said he was living with his mother, but I also thought there were a couple of hints after that he moved into their own house (after RC went home to collect some things). Can't find the reference for the later though, sorry.

I thought others had said the cleaners had been there a while back?
 
I am shocked at all the people on here that think (1) the parents were involved and (2) that her sleeping with her brothers is odd. Let me expand. My son who is 7 (a couple of months from 8) went missing when he was 4 years old for about an hour. I could not tell when asked by 911 or the police that came what he was wearing. I could not tell you where he was when I last saw him. My mind was FROZEN. I was incapable of speaking except for screaming his name over and over. I have never been that scared in my life. I am a very good mother who watches my children extremely closely. He had walked out the back door to a neighbors. She thought we knew he was on her porch and she invited him in to make cookies. Only when others were going door to door to find help did we find him. It was the single most horrible time in my life. When he was found I got down on my knees and just cried and hugged him. My husband noticed I was bleeding so badly I had to have stitches in my foot. When running down the street looking for him I had cut my foot very badly but had no idea until I was told. I was that numb all over my body. You never, ever know how you will act in that situation and I pray no one who stands in judgment of this family for what they do or don't do ever finds themselves in that situation. You do not know what you would do.
Second, my daughter and son each have their own rooms and sleep in the same room. She sleeps on the floor in a tent that goes over her mattress and he sleeps in his bed. No one has said she shares a bed with these boys. For all we know there is a tv in there and they all watch it while they fall asleep. Maybe the older boy reads to her and she then falls asleep in a bunk bed. So many choices other than those that are dark and criminal. When my little girl loses a privilege for her choices usually it is sleeping in her brothers room because she loves it so much. We have no idea why that night she was not where she normally would be.
Maybe the parents are involved and she was the victim or a horrible crime at the hands of someone who should have protected her but I choose to believe in the good and think this family is a good family stuck in a horrible circumstance.
 
Patty G said:
Found the picture of the side by side with the screen removed from Jane's show on 4/25/12. Of course, this is not even Isa's room.

Also attached is Nancy's version of where the screen was removed.
Click to expand...

lol. NONE of those pictures are of the correct window. Oy vey!
 
Havesomefaith said:
I am shocked at all the people on here that think (1) the parents were involved and (2) that her sleeping with her brothers is odd. Let me expand. My son who is 7 (a couple of months from 8) went missing when he was 4 years old for about an hour. I could not tell when asked by 911 or the police that came what he was wearing. I could not tell you where he was when I last saw him. My mind was FROZEN. I was incapable of speaking except for screaming his name over and over. I have never been that scared in my life. I am a very good mother who watches my children extremely closely. He had walked out the back door to a neighbors. She thought we knew he was on her porch and she invited him in to make cookies. Only when others were going door to door to find help did we find him. It was the single most horrible time in my life. When he was found I got down on my knees and just cried and hugged him. My husband noticed I was bleeding so badly I had to have stitches in my foot. When running down the street looking for him I had cut my foot very badly but had no idea until I was told. I was that numb all over my body. You never, ever know how you will act in that situation and I pray no one who stands in judgment of this family for what they do or don't do ever finds themselves in that situation. You do not know what you would do.
Second, my daughter and son each have their own rooms and sleep in the same room. She sleeps on the floor in a tent that goes over her mattress and he sleeps in his bed. No one has said she shares a bed with these boys. For all we know there is a tv in there and they all watch it while they fall asleep. Maybe the older boy reads to her and she then falls asleep in a bunk bed. So many choices other than those that are dark and criminal. When my little girl loses a privilege for her choices usually it is sleeping in her brothers room because she loves it so much. We have no idea why that night she was not where she normally would be.
Maybe the parents are involved and she was the victim or a horrible crime at the hands of someone who should have protected her but I choose to believe in the good and think this family is a good family stuck in a horrible circumstance.
Click to expand...

Welcome. I don't see the sleeping with brother thing odd either (except if on this night she didn't when she usually did)...

I'm so glad you found your child! Let me ask you this question...if you wouldn't have found your son so quickly, do you think you would have tried to use the media to get your word out as much as possible and ask for help? I'm not being snarky at all, I'm really interested in your answer.
 
Any way to find out who was the reporter that asked the Q re "message in the closet" during the press conference last week?

Apologies in advance if this was addressed-still in Thread 18-jumped forward to ask.
 
LisaB said:
I did not get that impression at all. I thought he was probably staying with family, and chose his yard as a vantage point to watch the event so that he would not get into trouble. He was not making contact with his kids and was on HIS OWN PROPERTY. He MAY be living in the house, but I did not think the cleaners had come yet.
Click to expand...

Cleaning truck was seen outside the house just before they were taken back separately - there was footage somewhere - I just can't find it at the moment sorry
 
white rabbit said:
can any locals give some flavor as to the terrain in/around saguaro national park?
it's not so far from the home and looks pretty desolate.

abducted, kidnapped, whatever happened...would that be a viable place to 'disappear' a child?

TIA...
Click to expand...

Lands at will. The main entrances are often gated, but there are other ways into Saguaro East and West. For hiking, I use the Speedway horse entrance to access Saguaro East and a dirt road to access West (via Golden Gate). There are lots of ways to get into closed "parks" here. These are fairly rugged areas aside from the parking areas and some ramada areas. Then there is Reddington Pass... which you can drive pretty easily any time of day or night even in a standard hi-clearance car. Lots of quads use it, as do hunters.

But none of these locations fall within TPD jurisdiction that I'm aware of. They are national park lands (East and West); and Reddington is definitely PCSO.
 
Prof said:
I think so... I think the call was mostly about Isa though, so I am not sure I am answering the question specifically enough? I did not analyze the tape for stumbles, I just remember it happening. Anyone else?
Click to expand...

JMO
I agree there were "stumbles", but nerves and the situation obviously could have contributed to anybody stumbling.
Most of what I considered "stumbles" occurred from both of them when describing the missing daughter. There were quite a few times about age, spelling of her first name, weight, etc. where they both seemed to stumble trying to answer. Whether it was just because of nerves or not, is anyones guess, but here is one "stumble" below that I particularly did not like because of the past tense word used = "I believe she WAS 30".

Q: Do you know how much she weighs?

A: Um, probably, I believe she was 30 or, she's about 40 pounds,
she's probably right about 40 pounds.

These stumbles did not bother me as much as the demeanor during the SC call. A little too jovial and calm IMO. Also, as mentioned before (and I realize this is not confirmed), but I am shocked that it appears to me that the Mom did not immediately confront SC when arriving. She appears to have got directly on the phone for a lengthy conversation before confronting him OR at a minimum jumping into his arms for comfort. I guess the reason this bothers me so much is it just makes me wonder if she had any prior knowledge of the situation before she even got there. I totally realize she may have gotten some information when SC called her, but it just seems to me that upon arriving, most people would want to confront their spouse in person immediately. Even if nothing else, but to get moral support + confort.

She even kind of asks for permission to end the 911 call before leaving the phone call, which seemed odd to me. I dont know why that part bothers me, but it kinda does. All JMO.
 
white rabbit said:
nevermind. lol.

http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/files/police/media-releases/public_assistance_-_celis_flyer.pdf
Click to expand...

I almost didn't click on your link because you said nevermind. Glad I did.

1. Did you observe anything that struck you as unusual or out of the ordinary at anytime prior to the incident or since
the incident?
2. Were there any delivery people or solicitors in your area two weeks prior to this incident or since the incident?
3. Has there been any construction in your area prior to or since the incident?
4. Were there any yard sales, parties or other large gatherings prior to the incident?
5. Did you notice any unusual vehicles or vehicles that you did not recognize in your area prior to the incident?
6. Do you have surveillance cameras in use at your home?
7. Do you know if any of your neighbors have surveillance cameras in use?
 
GutFeeling! said:
Cleaning truck was seen outside the house just before they were taken back separately - there was footage somewhere - I just can't find it at the moment sorry
Click to expand...





05/02/2012
"cleaning crews pull up in the family`s driveway."

05/14/2012
"They wouldn't say where Sergio Celis is living."link

05/15/2012
"Sergio, Isa's father, is staying up the street at his mother's home. Neighbors say you can see him coming and going late at night or early in the morning, otherwise, they don't see him much." link

Still canNOT find a reference for him moving back home so I may have misinterpreted based on the "coming and going" comment above and thinking they were the Celis' close neighbors. However, he is not that far from the house it sounds?
 
Havesomefaith said:
I am shocked at all the people on here that think (1) the parents were involved and (2) that her sleeping with her brothers is odd. Let me expand. My son who is 7 (a couple of months from 8) went missing when he was 4 years old for about an hour. I could not tell when asked by 911 or the police that came what he was wearing. I could not tell you where he was when I last saw him. My mind was FROZEN. I was incapable of speaking except for screaming his name over and over. I have never been that scared in my life. I am a very good mother who watches my children extremely closely. He had walked out the back door to a neighbors. She thought we knew he was on her porch and she invited him in to make cookies. Only when others were going door to door to find help did we find him. It was the single most horrible time in my life. When he was found I got down on my knees and just cried and hugged him. My husband noticed I was bleeding so badly I had to have stitches in my foot. When running down the street looking for him I had cut my foot very badly but had no idea until I was told. I was that numb all over my body. You never, ever know how you will act in that situation and I pray no one who stands in judgment of this family for what they do or don't do ever finds themselves in that situation. You do not know what you would do.
Second, my daughter and son each have their own rooms and sleep in the same room. She sleeps on the floor in a tent that goes over her mattress and he sleeps in his bed. No one has said she shares a bed with these boys. For all we know there is a tv in there and they all watch it while they fall asleep. Maybe the older boy reads to her and she then falls asleep in a bunk bed. So many choices other than those that are dark and criminal. When my little girl loses a privilege for her choices usually it is sleeping in her brothers room because she loves it so much. We have no idea why that night she was not where she normally would be.
Maybe the parents are involved and she was the victim or a horrible crime at the hands of someone who should have protected her but I choose to believe in the good and think this family is a good family stuck in a horrible circumstance.
Click to expand...

Welcome!

And I think in your personal story, you hit on why so many of us think Isa's parents may be involved: your reaction.

We all react differently to different situations, but losing a child is a horrific experience, even for a few hours, and it strikes me as very odd when parents exhibit a blase attitude, and then at other times, hyper dramatic acting.

Ya know, I can't say what is "appropriate" but I can say what just sits badly with me, and IMO, both parents have a lot of 'splainin' to do before I stop suspecting them.

Oh! And welcome! I am so glad your story had a happy ending! :)
 
Havesomefaith said:
I am shocked at all the people on here that think (1) the parents were involved and (2) that her sleeping with her brothers is odd. Let me expand. My son who is 7 (a couple of months from 8) went missing when he was 4 years old for about an hour. I could not tell when asked by 911 or the police that came what he was wearing. I could not tell you where he was when I last saw him. My mind was FROZEN. I was incapable of speaking except for screaming his name over and over. I have never been that scared in my life. I am a very good mother who watches my children extremely closely. He had walked out the back door to a neighbors. She thought we knew he was on her porch and she invited him in to make cookies. Only when others were going door to door to find help did we find him. It was the single most horrible time in my life. When he was found I got down on my knees and just cried and hugged him. My husband noticed I was bleeding so badly I had to have stitches in my foot. When running down the street looking for him I had cut my foot very badly but had no idea until I was told. I was that numb all over my body. You never, ever know how you will act in that situation and I pray no one who stands in judgment of this family for what they do or don't do ever finds themselves in that situation. You do not know what you would do.
Second, my daughter and son each have their own rooms and sleep in the same room. She sleeps on the floor in a tent that goes over her mattress and he sleeps in his bed. No one has said she shares a bed with these boys. For all we know there is a tv in there and they all watch it while they fall asleep. Maybe the older boy reads to her and she then falls asleep in a bunk bed. So many choices other than those that are dark and criminal. When my little girl loses a privilege for her choices usually it is sleeping in her brothers room because she loves it so much. We have no idea why that night she was not where she normally would be.
Maybe the parents are involved and she was the victim or a horrible crime at the hands of someone who should have protected her but I choose to believe in the good and think this family is a good family stuck in a horrible circumstance.
Click to expand...

Oh, believe me all of the people here do not think the parents are involved. There are many different theories going around. The fact that SC is barred from contacting his sons right now is concerning.
Welcome to WS!
 
white rabbit said:
i didn't see the pc yesterday, but this article is calling it a 'flyer', not a questionnaire...and won't give it to media. wonder if there are questions on it that they don't want us to see? maybe it's on the tpd website?...i'll go look...

http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local...hope-flyer-brings-new-information-celis-case/

Investigators working on the case of missing 6-year-old Isabel Celis will return to the girl's neighborhood and distribute a new flyer to residents and businesses in the hopes of gathering more information about her disappearance, Tucson Police said.

The flyer, which comes one month after Isabel's disappearance, contains a series of questions for those living or doing business in the vicinity of the Celis home in the 5600 block of E. 12th St., said TPD spokeswoman Sgt. Maria Hawke on Monday.

Tucson Police could not provide a copy of the flyer to TucsonSentinel.com on Tuesday morning.
Click to expand...


I downloaded this yesterday ... I think it is the flyer. It is two pages, second page is the questions.
 

Attachments

Havesomefaith said:
I am shocked at all the people on here that think (1) the parents were involved and (2) that her sleeping with her brothers is odd. Let me expand. My son who is 7 (a couple of months from 8) went missing when he was 4 years old for about an hour. I could not tell when asked by 911 or the police that came what he was wearing. I could not tell you where he was when I last saw him. My mind was FROZEN. I was incapable of speaking except for screaming his name over and over. I have never been that scared in my life. I am a very good mother who watches my children extremely closely. He had walked out the back door to a neighbors. She thought we knew he was on her porch and she invited him in to make cookies. Only when others were going door to door to find help did we find him. It was the single most horrible time in my life. When he was found I got down on my knees and just cried and hugged him. My husband noticed I was bleeding so badly I had to have stitches in my foot. When running down the street looking for him I had cut my foot very badly but had no idea until I was told. I was that numb all over my body. You never, ever know how you will act in that situation and I pray no one who stands in judgment of this family for what they do or don't do ever finds themselves in that situation. You do not know what you would do.
Second, my daughter and son each have their own rooms and sleep in the same room. She sleeps on the floor in a tent that goes over her mattress and he sleeps in his bed. No one has said she shares a bed with these boys. For all we know there is a tv in there and they all watch it while they fall asleep. Maybe the older boy reads to her and she then falls asleep in a bunk bed. So many choices other than those that are dark and criminal. When my little girl loses a privilege for her choices usually it is sleeping in her brothers room because she loves it so much. We have no idea why that night she was not where she normally would be.
Maybe the parents are involved and she was the victim or a horrible crime at the hands of someone who should have protected her but I choose to believe in the good and think this family is a good family stuck in a horrible circumstance.
Click to expand...

I did wonder why Isabel slept in her brothers' room. I wondered why she didn't seek her mother or father out if she was fearful...MOO Most 14 year olds are more comfortable with having their own space to sleep...MOO

Thing about this is that we don't even know if it is actually true...MOO
 
time said:
I downloaded this yesterday ... I think it is the flyer. It is two pages, second page is the questions.
Click to expand...

I recall a similar document in the Kyron Horman case when visitors to the Science Fair at Skyline School were asked to fill out a questionnaire about vehicles that might have been in the parking lot, people they saw at the Science Fair who did not have a legitimate reason for being there, strange vehicles parked away from the school, etc. It seemed that the request for such details came several weeks after Kyron's disappearance and that memories wouldn't be as good as they would have been a day or two after the boy went missing. This far into the Celis case, I can't imagine that most folks are going to recall something that seemed insignificant or not out of the ordinary a month or so ago. :moo:
 
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