AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #19

[Jules71]

JMO
I agree there were "stumbles", but nerves and the situation obviously could have contributed to anybody stumbling.
Most of what I considered "stumbles" occurred from both of them when describing the missing daughter. There were quite a few times about age, spelling of her first name, weight, etc. where they both seemed to stumble trying to answer. Whether it was just because of nerves or not, is anyones guess, but here is one "stumble" below that I particularly did not like because of the past tense word used = "I believe she WAS 30".

Q: Do you know how much she weighs?

A: Um, probably, I believe she was 30 or, she's about 40 pounds,
she's probably right about 40 pounds.

These stumbles did not bother me as much as the demeanor during the SC call. A little too jovial and calm IMO. Also, as mentioned before (and I realize this is not confirmed), but I am shocked that it appears to me that the Mom did not immediately confront SC when arriving. She appears to have got directly on the phone for a lengthy conversation before confronting him OR at a minimum jumping into his arms for comfort. I guess the reason this bothers me so much is it just makes me wonder if she had any prior knowledge of the situation before she even got there. I totally realize she may have gotten some information when SC called her, but it just seems to me that upon arriving, most people would want to confront their spouse in person immediately. Even if nothing else, but to get moral support + confort.

She even kind of asks for permission to end the 911 call before leaving the phone call, which seemed odd to me. I dont know why that part bothers me, but it kinda does. All JMO.

Good catch. I missed the past tense in his response "Um, probably, I believe she was 30 or, she's about 40 pounds, she's probably right about 40 pounds".

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I did wonder why Isabel slept in her brothers' room. I wondered why she didn't seek her mother or father out if she was fearful...MOO Most 14 year olds are more comfortable with having their own space to sleep...MOO

Thing about this is that we don't even know if it is actually true...MOO

I wonder why the 14-year-old brother didn't have his own room. Was he sharing a bedroom with his younger brother? And, why would Isabel's parents have given their youngest child the bedroom that is farthest from the Master Bedroom? Maybe Isabel really was afraid to be so far from her parents and siblings in the dark of night. I'd be skeered, too. :moo:

 

[Hatfield]

I recall a similar document in the Kyron Horman case when visitors to the Science Fair at Skyline School were asked to fill out a questionnaire about vehicles that might have been in the parking lot, people they saw at the Science Fair who did not have a legitimate reason for being there, strange vehicles parked away from the school, etc. It seemed that the request for such details came several weeks after Kyron's disappearance and that memories wouldn't be as good as they would have been a day or two after the boy went missing. This far into the Celis case, I can't imagine that most folks are going to recall something that seemed insignificant or not out of the ordinary a month or so ago. :moo:

Very good point. I know it is much easier to find faults with LE on things, rather than commend them when things go well, but this is a really good point. This document is really good to have created and sent out to people, but my goodness, it sure would have been nice to have created and sent this out in a "TIMELY" fashion. Good grief.

There is a good LE show on that is called "the first 24 hours" or something along those lines, where the show makes a point about the first 24 hours is so critical in investigations. One would think this questionairre idea could have been produced and sent out within the first week of her disappearance. I am both glad and sad to hear about this questionairre. Glad it is done and sent, but sad it wasnt done much much sooner. Again, good grief.

 

[Shelby2]

Very good point. I know it is much easier to find faults with LE on things, rather than commend them when things go well, but this is a really good point. This document is really good to have created and sent out to people, but my goodness, it sure would have been nice to have created and sent this out in a "TIMELY" fashion. Good grief.

There is a good LE show on that is called "the first 24 hours" or something along those lines, where the show makes a point about the first 24 hours is so critical in investigations. One would think this questionairre idea could have been produced and sent out within the first week of her disappearance. I am both glad and sad to hear about this questionairre. Glad it is done and sent, but sad it wasnt done much much sooner. Again, good grief.

But isn't this the SECOND one? I got the feeling they went thru the first batch already, refined it, and sent it out again.

 

[Havesomefaith]

I have no idea how to respond to certain questions or posts so will not "address" this to anyone. I need a tutorial. lol
Yes, eventually I would have used the media to speak out but it would have taken a while for me to be able to stand, speak clearly, and not break down. It makes me cry just thinking back to those moments. It's something I could never describe. In the beginning I would have had to rely on police to speak for us. I literally would have had to be medicated and I really thought that is how her parents appeared at first, medicated. Over time they seemed hyper almost and stumbling over words. I may be wrong but again, I think it's just nerves and them trying to act the way you think would be expected. In other words, after the reality soaked in and they were "together" enough mentally to speak they were over thinking what they "should" do.
Thank you all for the welcome.
I do pray they find her. I would love a happy ending here for everyone.

 

[Lava]

I wonder why the 14-year-old brother didn't have his own room. Was he sharing a bedroom with his younger brother? And, why would Isabel's parents have given their youngest child the bedroom that is farthest from the Master Bedroom? Maybe Isabel really was afraid to be so far from her parents and siblings in the dark of night. I'd be skeered, too. :moo:

IF CPS was involved they may have recommended it. I know they usually recommend separating boys and girls (but not sure about ages).

 

[Bodhi]

Good catch. I missed the past tense in his response "Um, probably, I believe she was 30 or, she's about 40 pounds, she's probably right about 40 pounds".

I might well have used the past tense in a situation like that. I can easily see myself thinking, "At her last doctor's appointment, she was 30 lbs" and then figuring out how long it had been since then, and how much she might have grown and then come up with 40. Some of my thinking process would be out loud and some not. Which fits with Sergio's jumbled answer to 911.

 

[Ransom]

I have no idea how to respond to certain questions or posts so will not "address" this to anyone. I need a tutorial. lol
Yes, eventually I would have used the media to speak out but it would have taken a while for me to be able to stand, speak clearly, and not break down. It makes me cry just thinking back to those moments. It's something I could never describe. In the beginning I would have had to rely on police to speak for us. I literally would have had to be medicated and I really thought that is how her parents appeared at first, medicated. Over time they seemed hyper almost and stumbling over words. I may be wrong but again, I think it's just nerves and them trying to act the way you think would be expected. In other words, after the reality soaked in and they were "together" enough mentally to speak they were over thinking what they "should" do.
Thank you all for the welcome.
I do pray they find her. I would love a happy ending here for everyone.

Welcome.

Just click the QUOTE (bottom left next to the THANKS button) and a screen will pop up. Type what you want to say underneath it (like I'm doing here) and then hit submit. Your post will appear. To get back where you were (in case posts were posted while you were composing) you can 1) scroll back up or 2) hit the > next to the Nic of the person you were replying to in your post.

HTH (hope that helps):seeya:

 

[marazul]

I might well have used the past tense in a situation like that. I can easily see myself thinking, "At her last doctor's appointment, she was 30 lbs" and then figuring out how long it had been since then, and how much she might have grown and then come up with 40. Some of my thinking process would be out loud and some not. Which fits with Sergio's jumbled answer to 911.

Exactly what I was going to post. Unlike babies, six year olds are not weighed every couple of months, I think the WAS was in, last time we checked or last time she went to the doctor.

As to why the farthest bedroom? Idk about them, but my youngest is farthest for us because she has the earliest bedtime and my husband and I don't want our TVs or late night taking or other older daughter to disturb her. We have a 2 story house so no concern of window entering, and the staircase is closest to our door, so anyone coming up would have to get past that and my fierce guard chihuahua and lazy Siberian husky
My point is, with two older boys and all, I can understand putting the youngest on the other side of the noise.

 

[liz b.]

IF CPS was involved they may have recommended it. I know they usually recommend separating boys and girls (but not sure about ages).

For foster care, children with opposite genders cannot share a room if one child is over the age of 8. Does not matter if they are related or not... And this rule applied to several different states I worked and lived in...MOO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

...As to why the farthest bedroom? Idk about them, but my youngest is farthest for us because she has the earliest bedtime and my husband and I don't want our TVs or late night taking or other older daughter to disturb her. We have a 2 story house so no concern of window entering, and the staircase is closest to our door, so anyone coming up would have to get past that and my fierce guard chihuahua and lazy Siberian husky
My point is, with two older boys and all, I can understand putting the youngest on the other side of the noise.

Respectfully <snipped> I can understand the noise issue, but when the Celis family moved into their home, Isabel was an infant or hadn't been born yet. Wouldn't her parents have wanted her much closer to them so they would hear her during the night and be able to get to her quickly? By the time they moved into the house, the older boy would not have needed to be close to his parents room, and he and the younger brother were old enough that they didn't require care during the night. :moo:

DH and my empty-nester abode is a ranch style home that isn't as large as the Celis'. It's possible that our hearing is going, but we can't talk to one another unless we're in the same room. If I'm in the master bedroom/bath, I can't hear DH if he's in the kitchen on the other side of the house nor can he hear me.

 

[Shelby2]

I'm just thinking..they matched the DNA in Sierra Lemar's case in MARCH, he had been under 24 hour surveillance since then as they built their case. He was arrested last night. So don't lose hope, we don't know what LE has.

 

[time]

I personally don't like the idea of a 14 year old boy sleeping in the same room with his 6 year old sister. I think kids need privacy and most 14/15 year olds probably don't go to bed nearly as early as a 6 year old, let alone what about having friends over or the same video games or tv shows not being appropriate, language, and on and on. One of my brothers was 8 years older than me and I just can't imagine that ....

 

[Prof]

Good catch. I missed the past tense in his response "Um, probably, I believe she was 30 or, she's about 40 pounds, she's probably right about 40 pounds".

Maybe he was going to say "I belive she was 30 or 40 pounds last doctor's visit" and then stopped himself just to say ... She is about 40 pounds..

Just another possibility...

 

[MysteryAddict]

I find it strange that Sergio would go to her room to wake her IF she usually slept in her brothers room.
Sergio said Isa said she was tired and went to bed. He didn't say which bed. People assume she would have gone to her bedroom. MOO

Maybe that wouldn't be so strange if Sergio was the one who put her to
bed in that room himself!

In an earlier thread (hope somebody else remembers this), it was said that
after the baseball game the night before--- Sergio and Isa stayed behind
to "help clean up". That, in its self, sounded strange at the time.

But if true, perhaps Becky and the boys got home, had their showers and
went to bed. Do we know what time Sergio got home with Isa?

Becky does say she braided Isa's hair that night, yet Sergio says she was
tired and went to bed. Who knows, but it could be true that the boys were
already settled down and Isa didn't have a chance to go to their room.

 

[time]

I recall a similar document in the Kyron Horman case when visitors to the Science Fair at Skyline School were asked to fill out a questionnaire about vehicles that might have been in the parking lot, people they saw at the Science Fair who did not have a legitimate reason for being there, strange vehicles parked away from the school, etc. It seemed that the request for such details came several weeks after Kyron's disappearance and that memories wouldn't be as good as they would have been a day or two after the boy went missing. This far into the Celis case, I can't imagine that most folks are going to recall something that seemed insignificant or not out of the ordinary a month or so ago. :moo:

I hear ya! I hope they already did this early on and as someone said, this is just a follow-up. Of course, I also hope it's a ploy to be in the neighborhood because they feel someone is suspicious and this won't single them out!

 

[Prof]

Respectfully <snipped> I can understand the noise issue, but when the Celis family moved into their home, Isabel was an infant or hadn't been born yet. Wouldn't her parents have wanted her much closer to them so they would hear her during the night and be able to get to her quickly? By the time they moved into the house, the older boy would not have needed to be close to his parents room, and he and the younger brother were old enough that they didn't require care during the night. :moo:

DH and my empty-nester abode is a ranch style home that isn't as large as the Celis'. It's possible that our hearing is going, but we can't talk to one another unless we're in the same room. If I'm in the master bedroom/bath, I can't hear DH if he's in the kitchen on the other side of the house nor can he hear me.

.
From what I have seen according to MSM reports, Isa's bedroom was closer to the parents room than the boys room

The boys' room has a window that faces the front yard, at the opposite corner from the parents.

Isa's bedroom door is closer the to parents', even if it is across the family room. The house/garage totals 2350 square feet, not much IMO, according the Pima county site.

The children's rooms are connected by a "jack and jill" bathroom, and they each have closets. It just seems all very natural to me.

IMO her door was maybe 25 feet from the parents' bedroom door?

http://www.asr.co.pima.az.us/web_images/asrt/PUBLIC/APEX/DATA/12803/0990-1.JPG

 

[Shelby2]

I am watching coverage of Sierra's case now-they showed her mother standing outside, stopping traffic to give people her daughters flyers.."this is my baby..she hangs around here.." and what a difference I see with the Celis'.

 

[Prof]

Maybe that wouldn't be so strange if Sergio was the one who put her to
bed in that room himself!

In an earlier thread (hope somebody else remembers this), it was said that
after the baseball game the night before--- Sergio and Isa stayed behind
to "help clean up". That, in its self, sounded strange at the time.

But if true, perhaps Becky and the boys got home, had their showers and
went to bed. Do we know what time Sergio got home with Isa?

Becky does say she braided Isa's hair that night, yet Sergio says she was
tired and went to bed. Who knows, but it could be true that the boys were
already settled down and Isa didn't have a chance to go to their room.

I don't have the quote, but I am pretty sure it was Coach Vega.
However, from what I remember, he stated the family stayed late.
I am pretty sure the parents stated something to that effect that as well, that they stayed late, and that they went home together.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

.
From what I have seen according to MSM reports, Isa's bedroom was closer to the parents room than the boys room

The boys' room has a window that faces the front yard, at the opposite corner from the parents.

Isa's bedroom door is closer the to parents', even if it is across the family room. The house/garage totals 2350 square feet, not much IMO, according the Pima county site.

The children's rooms are connected by a "jack and jill" bathroom, and they each have closets. It just seems all very natural to me.

IMO her door was maybe 25 feet from the parents' bedroom door?

http://www.asr.co.pima.az.us/web_images/asrt/PUBLIC/APEX/DATA/12803/0990-1.JPG

Original information suggested that the Celis home was 3800 square feet. I'm confused about this new floorplan. The footprint is somewhat similar to our house, but the bedrooms are in one wing of the house, while the "living" spaces are center and opposite side.