AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #19

[Theforeigner]

My reply to you is perhaps they forget that Becky, as a pediatric RN, has specialized training in recognizing the signs of sexual abuse. My question is do others think she turned a blind eye or simply allowed it to happen? IF it happened.

I really hate this line of posting. Poor Isa spoken about this way. I think I'll consult a moderator to see if it's even allowed.

Do I think RC turned a blind eye or simply allowed it to happen?
NO, I absolutley don´t think so!
I think that If it happened that SC "visited" Isabel in her room, RC did not recognized the signs even though " Becky, as a pediatric RN, has specialized training in recognizing the signs of sexual abuse" because even though you are trained to recognize signs of abuse, when it happen to your own family, I belive you tend to repress the signs, because it is just TOO unbearable to realize it.

 

[luvmydogs]

BetteDavisEyes and Prof,

I did a post yesterday afternoon but I didn't know who to address it to. It is in thread #18 post #1747. I thought the county measurement could possibly be correct since they appeared to be including the garage as living space.

But I went back and tried to calculate square footage (including garage) based on the floor plan we have (with dimensions). I got close to 3000 sq. ft. so it still doesn't explain the size discrepancy. But it does look like the county considers the whole space to be living area, no garage. I've seen that in houses where the garage has been converted into living space.

One other point on my earlier post: When I looked at the "History" page for previous owners of both 5602 and 5601 (to hopefully find the builder), I mistakenly used the name "Wilson" and it should be "William". I don't know what names we are allowed to post here. That trust appears to have been the owner of both properties just before the homes were built.

I just couldn't imagine the Celis family not fighting the huge error from the County. You are paying a lot more in property taxes, and considering how upside down they were on their home (purchased 435K, current valuation $350ish). I would be hollering for them to lower my tax bill. Hmm, interesting!

 

[Theforeigner]

My reply to you is perhaps they forget that Becky, as a pediatric RN, has specialized training in recognizing the signs of sexual abuse. My question is do others think she turned a blind eye or simply allowed it to happen? IF it happened.

I really hate this line of posting. Poor Isa spoken about this way. I think I'll consult a moderator to see if it's even allowed.

gliving...It is not Isa that is "spoken about this way" it is her father SC that possibly is "spoken about this way".

 

[mahoolin]

I still have no idea if the family had involvement or another relative or a stranger or the cartel...

My mind is still open to any possibility. That said, I will admit that my mind is not quite as open to rumors, but I do listen to those tidbits and file them where I can recall where they are later.

This case has my heart, and it is so frustrating because there's no real avenue for sleuthing, like there have been in other cases. I am a woman who knows that I will never come anywhere close to knowing it all about anything. I am also a woman who does not fit the stereotype of being "gossipy" and that's probably why I have a hard time believing that LE in this case has "gossipy wives." It's in my nature, and I am always in life searching for any kind of factual support or evidence, even though I know it is a losing battle in this case. That is why when someone asks for general help in tracking something down in this case, I am on it. I personally am not comfortable basing my own theories on anything but evidence (and it can be circumstantial if there's a reliable witness). I only question some avenues for information, not the theories posed here. I specifically come here to consider carefully all others' theories.

I'm like you - not gossipy. For years I've worked with confidential information and I honor that confidentiality. As far as LE having gossipy spouses, well - I've had DOCTORS tell me private information about OTHER DOCTORS and PATIENTS, and superiors at work private things about my co-workers- so nothing surprises me. (and no, I'm not a nurse and don't work in dr office/hospital either, but I do make sure what's shared with me doesn't go any farther) No saint, but just good at putting myself in someone else's shoes.

I prefer to have something solid for confirmation, but am not above theorizing a bit - sometimes that gets someone headed in the right direction to locate the evidence.

<Mod Snip>

I enjoy everyone here and all their varying personalities and points of view. We have a lot of very intelligent minds here at Websleuths, and I never get my house cleaned any more :floorlaugh:

 

[Patty G]

The home is 3800 sq ft. From the Pima County Assessor website and zillow.com.

Zillow.com gets their information from the county website. The county is wrong, because if you look at the details that the county has for the Celis' address, it states the house is two stories. The two story house is across the street at 5601.

Here is a better overview of the Celis' home off Realtor.com

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5602-E-12th-St_Tucson_AZ_85711_M21045-52912

ETA: I added a picture of the two story house across the street from the Celis', of which, is ~3800 sq. feet.

 

[carole]

gliving...It is not Isa that is "spoken about this way" it is her father SC that possibly is "spoken about this way".

BBM

I agree with you. Isabel has done nothing wrong, no matter what has happened or not happened to her. She is a child.

 

[FrayedKnot]

BBM

Absolutely -- Isabel has done nothing wrong, no matter what has happened or not happened to her. She is a child.

That is the exact reason many victims never tell. . They think it's wrong to talk about it, that they did something bad.

 

[Shelby2]

NG covering Isabel tonight "mom defends dad, has dad lawyered up?"

 

[time]

Given that there are apparently a lot of stuff that LE does NOT want the Celis family to be discussing then encouraging them to be more forward in their media dealings seems to be rather counterproductive. If I'm a parent and I have been told to keep something under my hat then getting up in front of a bunch of microphones or sitting down with reporters is not something I want to do. Be concerned that I might trip up and spill something that would jeopardize my child's situation even more.

As for keeping the case in front of the public, it is still very much in the front of people in Tucson at least. Pics still all over the place, on office building doors, in the windows of people's cars, on my pizza box!

I think this makes some sense, but there is a LOT they can talk about. They could have made more press statements or updates for the media and have gotten more national exposure. You can always think it through ahead of time and decide when to say "I can't answer that question because of the investigation" if you are giving a more open interview. If I were them or anyone else in that situation, you can bet I would NOT go on any show like Nancy Grace. Of course, I wouldn't even go on there as a commentator.

 

[WhatsupAZ]

I think the reason that there have been so many hurt feelings and snarkiness and offended posters on these threads is because EVERYONE shares an intense passion for Isa and her safety. Our common goal is to sleuth out any possible solution to this ugly mess.

I am not able to think of Isa or SC "in that way" let alone ppst about it. I actually skim over those types of posts because I cant even read them.

However, some realists who are posting here have sronger stomaches than I do. I thank them for being stonger than me and being able to cover that angle. I'm certainly not going to hinder their thought process.

 

[Prof]

Zillow.com gets their information from the county website. The county is wrong, because if you look at the details that the county has for the Celis' address, it states the house is two stories. The two story house is across the street at 5601.

Here is a better overview of the Celis' home off Realtor.com

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5602-E-12th-St_Tucson_AZ_85711_M21045-52912

ETA: I added a picture of the two story house across the street from the Celis', of which, is ~3800 sq. feet.

Here http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7839469&postcount=381 is one of the first posts to in depth discussion MVD, CN2Souls, Knox, Patty and other has on this topic bck on thread five ...along with pictures of various home descriptions, floorplans etc. all from Pima County Assessor
if anyone is curious ... its a good thread IMO

 

[mahoolin]

I wonder why the 14-year-old brother didn't have his own room. Was he sharing a bedroom with his younger brother? And, why would Isabel's parents have given their youngest child the bedroom that is farthest from the Master Bedroom? Maybe Isabel really was afraid to be so far from her parents and siblings in the dark of night. I'd be skeered, too. :moo:

So much to ponder. If I were Isabel, I'd be skeered too. Especially if I'd caught a bit of a scary movie and had a few nightmares, and heard a few strange "night sounds" - my stinky brothers would probably start to look good.

I have a friend with several children. They are the typical "get away from me, your breath stinks, he touched me" kids, but always gravitated to one or another's rooms and ended up sleeping all in one or the family room. They played video games together etc... Maybe Isabel felt a little left out when her brothers seemed to be having a better time?

The 14 yr old is growing into a young man. Maybe he was playing his role of big brother protector and he made her feel safe and he didn't send her back to her room like mom and dad did.

Some kids prefer their own space and are content to entertain themselves, some can't spend a moment alone. Maybe Isa preferred the company of others, and it really was all innocent if it happened at all...
:waitasec:

Wishing you were home Isa lease:

 

[Shelby2]

Nancy says "reports are that daddy has been seeking out a defense lawyer"
NO CONFIRMATION FROM LE. No idea who is 'reporting' this.

 

[Patty G]

Nancy Grace: Claims that Sergio is searching out defense lawyers.

Me: Although there is absoultely no proof of that, nor is Nancy providing any.

 

[MBK]

My reply to you is perhaps they forget that Becky, as a pediatric RN, has specialized training in recognizing the signs of sexual abuse. My question is do others think she turned a blind eye or simply allowed it to happen? IF it happened.

I really hate this line of posting. Poor Isa spoken about this way. I think I'll consult a moderator to see if it's even allowed.

She may have training, but you know what they say about the shoemaker's children. This is a home where CPS had been involved and the police had come several times. Ummmmm . . . obviously someone noticed something, and I doubt very much that Mrs. Celis called CPS herself asking them to investigate her family. Just looking at the few facts that we have, and they don't add up to "normal".

(It's funny, we haven't heard any teachers or friends talking about Isabel. What is stopping the discourse in this case?)

 

[Patty G]

I am not recording this show. Nope, nope, nope.

 

[Shelby2]

Some sex offenders, some family ruled out. Following up with 257 sex offenders.

 

[Shelby2]

I am not recording this show. Nope, nope, nope.

Ahahahahahaha

 

[Shelby2]

Nancy thinks RC gets 'guidance' from SC before she speaks.

Hmm. Never noticed that but I am not a 'body language expert'

 

[luvmydogs]

Here http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7839469&postcount=381 is one of the first posts to in depth discussion MVD, CN2Souls, Knox, Patty and other has on this topic bck on thread five ...along with pictures of various home descriptions, floorplans etc. all from Pima County Assessor
if anyone is curious ... its a good thread IMO

Sorry I just joined yesterday and didn't see all these posts. Wow, the Celis have been way overpaying on property taxes. What a mess! I compared their property records with ours and under their Property Record Card someone signed off on 3802 sq ft on 10/2005. I'm amazed how many people don't double check these things! I would be hollering to lower my tax bill.