AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #19

[luvmydogs]

The thing about the Cole Puffinburger case is the kidnappers sent a note months before he was kidnapped warning the family something would happen if they didn't get their money back. They also ransacked the home and tied up the mother and her boyfriend. These people, drug cartel members, don't do things quietly. They don't sneak into a home and take a child without leaving some kind of message (whether it be by a note, ransacking, or harming another person in the home).

I guess it's just my opinion, but if you are knowingly or even connected by mistaken identity to a drug cartel and your childs life is at stake, wouldn't you kind of not do things like, attend public vigils, attend public Little League games, attend public concerts, or allow your child to attend public school?

Thank you for your input. You said what I wanted to say so much clearer and quicker :great:

I am not saying that it can't be a possibility, I'm just trying to show the other side of why it might not be a possibility.

Just something to talk about, since there is no additional news

 

[Shelby2]

There is question about cartel involvement-not specifically drug cartel-due to the fact that the search was extended into Mexico, rumors, heavy border activity, I think a retired AZ LE officer mentioned it on that Judge Jeanne show, and numerous articles have been posted in this thread regarding kidnappings of older kids from the US, including a statement by Homeland Security. Also SC saying 'Tell us your demands'.. It's all speculation though.

'Hopeful' speculation-because if it were the case Isabel might be alive.

LE working this case have not said anything about this specifically, they have said they are expanding the search into Mexico, they have said they are looking at a narcotics angle in the beginning.

I am still puzzled by the CPS action, and why LE chose to release such information. Are they TRYING to throw suspicion on SC? Divert attention away from something? I don't buy their reason of 'keeping the public informed'.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I don't think if it were Cartel involved it was for drug money owed. So I chose other. Other seems to be leading in the poll.

I'm not sold on it, I'm open to the dad having harmed her too. I'm not sure if mom was involved or not.

Last night I had another thought too....

 

[Shelby2]

Re: the blanket that was removed from the red car - what did it look like? Was it the Mexican type blanket hanging over the couch that is shown in the picture of Isa jumping on the couch? (I think someone posted a screen shot from a video.)

Jules, I thought it was? I can't remember for sure.

 

[luvmydogs]

Re: the blanket that was removed from the red car - what did it look like? Was it the Mexican type blanket hanging over the couch that is shown in the picture of Isa jumping on the couch? (I think someone posted a screen shot from a video.)

No and really not all Mexicans use those blanket types. It is used by locals here if they are decorating in that "type" of hacienda style.

 

[Prof]

While I never really considered cartel involvement was very likely, I have been open to all possibilities, as there really is not much evidence IMO to give me a strong inkling toward any of the possibilities. I lean more toward family or stranger with a target possibilities than cartel, but I do listen to all.

Shelby2 was looking for video of the ex Arizona LE officer who made a comment on cartels early on in the Celis case, so I found it yesterday.

Turns out this officer is a retired media spokesperson for Phoenix, PD.
He has lots of media experience being the voice of PPD for a number of years. I also noted he was the spokesperson for the five-year-old who was abducted a few years ago on Christmas day.

Anyway, I think his experience in Phoenix gives him credible insight into the case and possible cartel connections, so I transcribed his thoughts.

This was the first media mention of cartels that I remember in connection to this case. It was an interview on a Phoenix news show on April 27.
Turns out that the reporter brought the topic up, as "someone's" speculation.

Andy Hill -- @ about 3:48 reporter brings up “someone” speculating of possible ties to the Mexican drug cartel… [my transcript of his word]

”There is no specific evidence right now that I am aware of that points to it” says Hill “however, you have to look at the totality of circumstances, and once those first few days pass and you begin to look at things, you have to spread that net far and wide and look at all the possibilities. "

"Is there spill over violence from Mexico? Absolutely. Do Cartels go after people that owe them money and take their children? Yes, they do, but– there’s nothing specific in this case that has come out that indicates this family had anything to do with criminal activity. They seem to be a normal family. But what the investigators have to do is just make sure you don’t skip anything just in case down the road some other piece of evidence comes forward and you don’t want to say that you lost an opportunity early on.”


http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Retired-Phoenix-cop-weighs-in-on-Isabel-Celis-case-149250945.html

HTH

 

[Shelby2]

I don't think if it were Cartel involved it was for drug money owed. So I chose other. Other seems to be leading in the poll.

I'm not sold on it, I'm open to the dad having harmed her too. I'm not sure if mom was involved or not.

Last night I had another thought too....

I'm not sold on anything...

 

[luvmydogs]

Jules, I thought it was? I can't remember for sure.

No. It was a regular looking comforter. In a pastel color.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I have read and gone over so many different scenarios in my mind about what could have possibly happened to little Isa. This is a very strange case with very strange parents, IMO. I say strange because we have no idea why SC cannot be in contact with his two sons. Then I hear RC on video really defending SC the night of the last vigil. I know she was asked questions by a reporter, but RC said what a great husband and father SC is. Well, then why can't he see his sons?

Of course I have no idea what has happened, but I just have a nagging feeling that JM and SC know what happened to little Isa. Maybe RC knows as well. I just keep feeling that Isa is either in Mexico with extended family or in Florida with family of JM and RC's. I know LE has ruled out some family members, but it could still include extended family at JM, SC, or even RC's direction, IMO.

Maybe Isa was injured at the home and she was sent away to heal because of fear of what CPS may do. After all of the investigating, maybe the family cannot figure out how to bring her back without causing CPS to take her out of their custody. Maybe, maybe, maybe. I can guess all day long but it will not help.

IDK. I just want Isa to be found safe and sound somehow. Please, God, let her be found. Hopefully LE will catch a break.

MOO

 

[Jules71]

No and really not all Mexicans use those blanket types. It is used by locals here if they are decorating in that "type" of hacienda style.

I didn't say all Mexicans use those types of blankets. I saw one on the back of the couch in one screen shot and wondered if it was the same one they took from the car. I am not clear if it was or wasn't. Does anyone know for sure?

 

[Shelby2]

Prof thank you very much for finding that.

 

[Jules71]

No. It was a regular looking comforter. In a pastel color.

Thank you!

 

[Shelby2]

No. It was a regular looking comforter. In a pastel color.

Oh thank you. Do you remember a blanket in the video being seen elsewhere?

 

[LaLaw2000]

Awesome story! But my point exactly, they took him at gunpoint and over $millions of dollars.

I just think cartels are just so gun slapping happy, they wouldn't secretly take her. They would go in with gun a blazing. JMO and what I've read in our local area how they handle home invasions.

BBM:

I agree for the most part, luvmydogs, but if there is a drug or cartel connection I am betting it came with JM. I think JM has been bad news for this family.

MOO

 

[nursebeeme]

so sad there is no new news on Isabel :-(

 

[GutFeeling!]

I have read and gone over so many different scenarios in my mind about what could have possibly happened to little Isa. This is a very strange case with very strange parents, IMO. I say strange because we have no idea why SC cannot be in contact with his two sons. Then I hear RC on video really defending SC the night of the last vigil. I know she was asked questions by a reporter, but RC said what a great husband and father SC is. Well, then why can't he see his sons?

Of course I have no idea what has happened, but I just have a nagging feeling that JM and SC know what happened to little Isa. Maybe RC knows as well. I just keep feeling that Isa is either in Mexico with extended family or in Florida with family of JM and RC's. I know LE has ruled out some family members, but it could still include extended family at JM, SC, or even RC's direction, IMO.

Maybe Isa was injured at the home and she was sent away to heal because of fear of what CPS may do. After all of the investigating, maybe the family cannot figure out how to bring her back without causing CPS to take her out of their custody. Maybe, maybe, maybe. I can guess all day long but it will not help.

IDK. I just want Isa to be found safe and sound somehow. Please, God, let her be found. Hopefully LE will catch a break.

MOO

JM is still at the top of my list too

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I don't think if it were Cartel involved it was for drug money owed. So I chose other. Other seems to be leading in the poll.

I'm not sold on it, I'm open to the dad having harmed her too. I'm not sure if mom was involved or not.

Last night I had another thought too....

"Other" can have as many different meanings as there are posters who made that choice. At this time, more than twice as many total votes (56/23) suggest that Isabel is deceased at the hands of an abductor or immediate family member.

I twisted DH's arm to vote in the Poll last night without telling him beforehand how I had voted. We're on the same page

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

JM is still at the top of my list too

He sure did make himself scarce after that initial media appearance :escape:

 

[galiuro]

Sooo.... if you were going to pick a child to 'hold for ransom', a family with their house underwater, yep that would be your choice...?

 

[passionflower]

If the parents gave Isa for any reason to friends or family then why the 911 missing call? They could just say she was on a vacation with family. IMO, something bad has happened to Isa.