AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #20

[Azcrabcakes]

Yeah this is very common among Latin Americans for whom Spanish is the native language. They're used to using one word, suelo, for both ground and floor.

Yes, it is, or "piso" in these parts. Also, someone mentioned a plethora of uncles. My kids have about 25 blood uncles (some are great-uncles), as their father came from a HUGE Latino family!

 

[abstr]

No footprints by house - that is huge on my thinking of the importance of the footprints. None there make me wonder if the screen was already out or pushed out from inside. Gulp - just gulp!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22634&d=1338051597

I am an East Coaster but my experience with Arizona is that it is so dry. Would footprints be the norm? Even here when it is a drier season I don't think you'd see footprints in my lawn which has very green, lush grass. IMO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Would one of you guys having problems seeing the docs try my link and see if it works for you and let me know. If it works and you guys who can't see them can view them, I can do this for all 6.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/121431458/Isabel-Celis-Packet-1

For late readers - all six packets are now done and the links are here:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 Media & Document Dump (No Discussion)

This works for me now!

Thanks so much!

 

[Azcrabcakes]

I am an East Coaster but my experience with Arizona is that it is so dry. Would footprints be the norm? Even here when it is a dryer season I don't think you'd see footprints in my lawn which has very green, lush grass. IMO

"Lawn?" Most of us here don't have lawns. We have dirt or gravel, or "patios" with some kind of pavers or flagstone. Weeds still proliferate though.

 

[winterrose]

Having a large family is not an indicator of guilt. IMO

No, except when you're trying to figure out who is who and esp what uncle is being talked about. I'd just like to know how many relatives were in the home that morning, when they got there, what they did in the house and who was the man with SC at 8am in the security recording, when he said he had just woken up.

 

[mamamia54]

"cause it was washed maybe! <running and ducking>.

I HAD to say that!

LOL. actually, if it's the same truck that I'm thinking about a towel was also found inside it, that came back with a false positive for blood, and the knife was a pocketknife. Hopefully I'm thinking about the same truck.

 

[Aura]

"cause it was washed maybe! <running and ducking>.

I HAD to say that!

This cracked me up LOL :floorlaugh:

I can understand the person cleaning dishes.. It wasn't a good thing to do, but in a crisis situation, you do things to keep your mind from going over all the bad, and to help the family. When my best friend lost her daughter, her family came and the first thing they did was start cleaning the house. I agree, it wasnt smart to start washing dishes, but i dont think she was thinking clearly either.

 

[abstr]

"Lawn?" Most of us here don't have lawns. We have dirt or gravel, or "patios" with some kind of pavers or flagstone. Weeds still proliferate though.

I understand. In your dry compacted dirt would a footprint show
? I don't mean to be snarky...I honestly think of AZ as having such compact ground a footprint would not show.
Was just trying to say that here you can sink in when it is damp but in drought conditions even if I keep grass green I don't see footprints.
I really am not an expert on footprints here or there.....
Curious is all.
IMO

 

[Knox]

"cause it was washed maybe! <running and ducking>.

I HAD to say that!

You're BAD, thanks for the giggle :floorlaugh:

 

[abstr]

No, except when you're trying to figure out who is who and esp what uncle is being talked about. I'd just like to know how many relatives were in the home that morning, when they got there, what they did in the house and who was the man with SC at 8am in the security recording, when he said he had just woken up.

I can agree with that.
I have a zillion, give or take, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc...and somehow the remark offended me. I can sometimes be sensitive/
If they are a close family, both emotionally and geographically, it might not be unusual that they are there instantly.
I have a subset of my family who all live within a few miles and literally spend four or five hours a day together....three generations. Would make me nuts!
I am close with my family and I speak with several family members every day without fail but I don't want them at my home that often.
Every family is different. Not defending the Celis family...I am not of an opinion one way or the other right now. IMO

 

[Knox]

I understand. In your dry compacted dirt would a footprint show
? I don't mean to be snarky...I honestly think of AZ as having such compact ground a footprint would not show.
Was just trying to say that here you can sink in when it is damp but in drought conditions even if I keep grass green I don't see footprints.
I really am not an expert on footprints here or there.....
Curious is all.
IMO

Think dusty dirt. It would be like walking in talcum powder and tracking it across a surface, KWIM?

 

[SpongeBathHotPants]

Usually in large families when something tragic happens the women of the family take over the kitchen. The men are out searching while the women stay back and cook for everyone. The aunt (or whom ever she was) could have been cleaning so that they could start cooking. My first husband was Greek and came from a HUGE Greek family. Every time anything good or bad happened you automatically had a half dozen or more women in the kitchen cooking up a storm. I don't think the aunt (again or whom ever she was) should be looked at so harshly. Now if she was washing Isa's sheets or cleaning up the "blood like substance" in her room that would be another story. Bottom line, most people have no clue how to act in an emergency like this, there is no guide to follow. They go where they think they will be of most help.

 

[Ransom]

I don't know where this post is going to fall...

But I am still back on Page Negative 324....

At first I was frustrated that I couldn't pull up the Docs.

I still can't....

But this has actually turned out to be a serendipitous situation!

With my OCD, I would feel like I had to read every word, number, and blanked out ???, so I would be even more behind! (Yes, Joedotnet, I said :behind"... :giggle

What I am trying to say...

A BIG THANK YOU! to ALL of you for all your separate, yet cohesive, work towards making sense of this rather mystifying case!

:gthanks:

Go HERE: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 Media & Document Dump (No Discussion)

Alternate way to open the docs have been provided by A_News_Junkie.

 

[abstr]

Think dusty dirt. It would be like walking in talcum powder and tracking it across a surface, KWIM?

OK. Thanks. !

 

[time]

Okay, so SC said he woke up at 8am, woke boys and went to wake Isa up, she wasn't there, son sees screen is out. At 8am he was outside with another man, Moore said it was SC's brother when looking at the recording. That's the longest 8am I've ever heard of before. Anyway, I think LE got there around 8:30, so who knows who all was in the house and what all was cleaned before 8:30.

1. I guess people are positive that SC in this case is not SC Jr.?

2. Veering a bit from your post, but didn't LE say they got the 911 call around 8:10 or 8:15? So the window between call and arrival is a bit smaller than 1/2 hour?

3. Others got there very quickly and got busy if someone was already doing dishes when LE arrived - I asked what time the aunt was doing dishes and no one answered so I'm assuming it was about 8:30 or after. I agree with what you are saying - "who knows who all was in the house and what all was cleaned before 8:30", but would add how do we know others hadn't come and gone already also? Or went in and out of the house, around to look at the screen, etc.? This doesn't have anything to do with claiming they are suspect or not, just tainting the crime scene.

Which brings me to another point (no matter if it seems outrageous or not, I think it should be considered...

4. Perps often insert themselves into the investigation

 

[abstr]

I can agree with that.
I have a zillion, give or take, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc...and somehow the remark offended me. I can sometimes be sensitive/
If they are a close family, both emotionally and geographically, it might not be unusual that they are there instantly.
I have a subset of my family who all live within a few miles and literally spend four or five hours a day together....three generations. Would make me nuts!
I am close with my family and I speak with several family members every day without fail but I don't want them at my home that often.
Every family is different. Not defending the Celis family...I am not of an opinion one way or the other right now. IMO

Quoting my own post to say that a few years back there was a tragedy for one of my siblings. I made one phone call to a relative while still at the hospital. By the time we got back to the siblings home. Someone had come and cleaned her spotless home, someone had been to the local "club" store and bought a ton of kleenex, toilet paper, paper plates, cups, foil pans, etc. That person knew there would be people there and was trying to have supplies. Not an hour later platters were delivered with packaging to store it, etc.
While not a crime...it was people doing what they could.
I still am grateful for the person who bought out the "club" store because who wants to deal with running out of t.p. when you've just have the tragedy of your life. I also remember this same person having church members of hers come in twice a day to clean bathrooms, wash dishes, etc. ....They came in very quietly and did that and then got out without a sound....I admire this person...a relative only thru marriage to me who I really never thought much of...didn't dislike but barely knew..but now I see her as a really great person. She had lost someone close but took charge....
This is rambling...but just to say we don't know how we react to anything!
Again...I am still on the fence and wobbling......so not a defense of the Celis family.

 

[johnQpublic]

I understand. In your dry compacted dirt would a footprint show
? I don't mean to be snarky...I honestly think of AZ as having such compact ground a footprint would not show.
Was just trying to say that here you can sink in when it is damp but in drought conditions even if I keep grass green I don't see footprints.
I really am not an expert on footprints here or there.....
Curious is all.
IMO

LOL... The Ground is hard but there is usually powdery dust on top of the ground. IE Dust Storms lol foot prints in alleys and stuff actually do stay around awhile... LOL I used to follow them to find coworkers working outside.. Another funny is Movies use AZ quite often to film scenes that take place on Mars LOL

 

[abstr]

Usually in large families when something tragic happens the women of the family take over the kitchen. The men are out searching while the women stay back and cook for everyone. The aunt (or whom ever she was) could have been cleaning so that they could start cooking. My first husband was Greek and came from a HUGE Greek family. Every time anything good or bad happened you automatically had a half dozen or more women in the kitchen cooking up a storm. I don't think the aunt (again or whom ever she was) should be looked at so harshly. Now if she was washing Isa's sheets or cleaning up the "blood like substance" in her room that would be another story. Bottom line, most people have no clue how to act in an emergency like this, there is no guide to follow. They go where they think they will be of most help.

BTW, I am not ethnic at all....but my family is the same.
I am divorced from an ethnic man and his family was like that too.

 

[Azcrabcakes]

I understand. In your dry compacted dirt would a footprint show
? I don't mean to be snarky...I honestly think of AZ as having such compact ground a footprint would not show.
Was just trying to say that here you can sink in when it is damp but in drought conditions even if I keep grass green I don't see footprints.
I really am not an expert on footprints here or there.....
Curious is all.
IMO

Nor am I an expert, either place. I think you are right that in compacted dirt a print might not show. My experience here is that there is always a covering of loose dust/dirt. Sometimes thin, sometimes thicker, depending on the wind, I suppose.

I did not mean to sound snarky... I always react like that when grass is mentioned. I DO miss it sometimes. About gravel though - I learned you can hear someone walking on your granite lawn! I can hear if someone walks on the gravel, but not the dirt, so gravel is a good form of security, if one listens!

 

[abstr]

LOL... The Ground is hard but there is usually powdery dust on top of the ground. IE Dust Storms lol foot prints in alleys and stuff actually do stay around awhile... LOL I used to follow them to find coworkers working outside.. Another funny is Movies use AZ quite often to film scenes that take place on Mars LOL

LOL. AZ might as well be Mars to me. I have been to Phoenix but otherwise I am clueless.
One thing I enjoy here is learning about different areas. The US is very diverse in land, people, culture, etc.