AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #21

[MBK]

For anyone who knows about latent prints, when the docs say the forensics offc saw no latent prints on the toyshelf, books on toyshelf, mirror on dresser next to window and the dresser itself, does that mean no fingerprints? Latent prints are just fingerprints that are invisible. If so, there were no prints, then someone wiped all that clean, right? Because they found a latent print on the screen and I think one on the window sill, which is odd, wouldn't there be more prints on those things, normally? I mean the sill and probably even the screen whoever put it on before. The toyshelf and such should have fingerprints all over them.

This is a really great and important point, methinks.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

I am sure that this has been talked about a zillion times ---but somethin else-besides what Isabel was wearing when she disappeared is bothering me.

When the police arrive at the home and an officer has what he calls a brief conversation with Mom, he asks her where she thinks her daughter is -and she says -her son has ?????. Which leads the officer to ask would or could he harm her?
Also, she didn't check on Isabel before she left for work. Maybe she didn't want to wake her up, but I can't imagine my Mom leaving for work and not kissing me goodbye. (thanks Mom)

And then back to Dad (sorry) . When asked did he know who could have taken Isabel, which would require just a yes or no answer, he goes into a short story he grew up there, knows all the neighbors, Isabel plays outside and down the street..OH and by the way there is a SEX OFFENDER that lives down the street. WHAAAAAAAAAT?!!? You KNOW he lives there and you allow her to PLAY down the street. YIKES.

What bothers me is both of them offer up someone in their own special way that could have harmed Isabel. Lots of information given when they could have just said yes or no. Lots of details on these sorts of things but they have really bad memories when it comes to the real facts of the night she disappeared.

 

[time]

For anyone who knows about latent prints, when the docs say the forensics offc saw no latent prints on the toyshelf, books on toyshelf, mirror on dresser next to window and the dresser itself, does that mean no fingerprints? Latent prints are just fingerprints that are invisible. If so, there were no prints, then someone wiped all that clean, right? Because they found a latent print on the screen and I think one on the window sill, which is odd, wouldn't there be more prints on those things, normally? I mean the sill and probably even the screen whoever put it on before. The toyshelf and such should have fingerprints all over them.

This is from just one source, but seems right ...

http://www.odec.ca/projects/2004/fren4j0/public_html/types_prints.htm

There are three main types of fingerprints: visible prints, latent prints and impressed prints.

Visible prints are also called patent prints and are left in some medium, like blood, that reveals them to the naked eye. They can be when blood, dirt, ink or grease on the finger come into contact with a smooth surface and leave a friction ridge impression that is visible without development.

Latent prints are not apparent to the naked eye. They are formed from the sweat from sebaceous glands on the body or water, salt, amino acids and oils contained in sweat. The sweat and fluids create prints must be developed before they can be seen or photographed. They can be made sufficiently visible by dusting, fuming or chemical reagents.

Impressed prints are also called plastic prints and are indentations left in soft pliable surfaces, such as clay, wax, paint or another surface that will take the impression. They are visible and can be viewed or photographed without development.

The Fingerprint Sourcebook

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...L8c3BY&sig=AHIEtbRcPRXtTYho2Hqc8K_3iN6DefPxvA

 

[Dr. Know?]

The guy NMcd doesn't appear to have much other than traffic tickets from 2001 to 2011.

I wonder if LE would release all the docs if he were the focus. It's that big blacked out area on that doc that really has me curious.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

For anyone who knows about latent prints, when the docs say the forensics offc saw no latent prints on the toyshelf, books on toyshelf, mirror on dresser next to window and the dresser itself, does that mean no fingerprints? Latent prints are just fingerprints that are invisible. If so, there were no prints, then someone wiped all that clean, right? Because they found a latent print on the screen and I think one on the window sill, which is odd, wouldn't there be more prints on those things, normally? I mean the sill and probably even the screen whoever put it on before. The toyshelf and such should have fingerprints all over them.

You're right. A latent fingerprint is not seen without the help of fingerprint "dust." (or other methods) It is strange that there are no fingerprints on her toyshelf, the dresser and places where there SHOULD be prints but there is a print on the screen and the window sill.

To me it seems like more staging. JMO

 

[winterrose]

This is from just one source, but seems right ...

http://www.odec.ca/projects/2004/fren4j0/public_html/types_prints.htm



The Fingerprint Sourcebook

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...L8c3BY&sig=AHIEtbRcPRXtTYho2Hqc8K_3iN6DefPxvA

So what kind of an abductor would take the time to wipe prints off toyshelves, books, mirrors and dressers? It makes no sense to me. It's not like they'd be touching all of those things. Opening and closing the window all the time, you'd have prints on them.

 

[azmary]

Here is a radio interview with RC and SC
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/soluti...8/judge-judys-bailiff-meet-petri-hawkins-byrd
sorry if a repeat

 

[mamamia54]

The guy NMcd doesn't appear to have much other than traffic tickets from 2001 to 2011.

I wonder if LE would release all the docs if he were the focus. It's that big blacked out area on that doc that really has me curious.

I hate to ask this lol, but do we have an actual address for <modsnip>? I THINK I remember that he lived on 12th street. I have two screen shots one of that drunk caller showing up on 13th street and then another shot on 13th of a 911 call only cell phone call.

 

[gliving]

For anyone who knows about latent prints, when the docs say the forensics offc saw no latent prints on the toyshelf, books on toyshelf, mirror on dresser next to window and the dresser itself, does that mean no fingerprints? Latent prints are just fingerprints that are invisible. If so, there were no prints, then someone wiped all that clean, right? Because they found a latent print on the screen and I think one on the window sill, which is odd, wouldn't there be more prints on those things, normally? I mean the sill and probably even the screen whoever put it on before. The toyshelf and such should have fingerprints all over them.

Maybe the perp is a nervous OCD cleaner like me? :blushing: I can't see why the family would wipe it clean because their prints are supposed to be in their home.

I think latent prints means more than ordinary prints.

 

[winterrose]

Maybe the perp is a nervous OCD cleaner like me? :blushing: I can't see why the family would wipe it clean because their prints are supposed to be in their home.

I think latent prints means more than ordinary prints.

Or a person who watched a whole lot of CSI shows, it's just wierd.

 

[Azcrabcakes]

I have had cd's in m y car for years that work just fine. The heat here is relative. Posters have mentioned the "extreme heat" during those first few days, but most locals think of temps in the 80s and 90s as beautiful weather. I even jog in August when the temps can be well over 110 for many days. We won't melt.

Speak for yourself! I DO melt when it gets over 100. I can't take the heat well. But like you, I find 80's here lovely! Right now it is 93 with 5% humidity. Just wonderful. That's because when we have suffered 117 for days at a time, 93 is a picnic. You must be more heat tolerant than some.

 

[Ladylub]

Wondering how NM knew Isa was missing. Did any of the docs talk about the uncle going around the neighborhood and who he talked to?

 

[time]

For anyone who knows about latent prints, when the docs say the forensics offc saw no latent prints on the toyshelf, books on toyshelf, mirror on dresser next to window and the dresser itself, does that mean no fingerprints? Latent prints are just fingerprints that are invisible. If so, there were no prints, then someone wiped all that clean, right? Because they found a latent print on the screen and I think one on the window sill, which is odd, wouldn't there be more prints on those things, normally? I mean the sill and probably even the screen whoever put it on before. The toyshelf and such should have fingerprints all over them.

A bit confusing ... maybe it was after dusting or using a light on them?

 

[time]

Wondering how NM knew Isa was missing. Did any of the docs talk about the uncle going around the neighborhood and who he talked to?

I think he lived on the same street - hard to miss the police cars and such. I would bet a lot of people in the neighborhood knew in short order?

 

[Dr. Know?]

I hate to ask this lol, but do we have an actual address for Old McDonald? I THINK I remember that he lived on 12th street. I have two screen shots one of that drunk caller showing up on 13th street and then another shot on 13th of a 911 call only cell phone call.

Click on #17.

http://neighbors.whitepages.com/search/neighbor_search?street=5601

eta link isn't working, just put in 5602 E. 12th, Tucson, AZ

12th street, 4th house from the Isa's.

 

[mamamia54]

Click on #17.

http://neighbors.whitepages.com/search/neighbor_search?street=5601

eta link isn't working, just put in 5602 E. 12th, Tucson, AZ

12th street, 4th house from the Isa's.

Just seeing a pink page, search page

 

[FrayedKnot]

Maybe the perp is a nervous OCD cleaner like me? :blushing: I can't see why the family would wipe it clean because their prints are supposed to be in their home.

I think latent prints means more than ordinary prints.

Because in an effort to 'cover adequately' maybe they forgot that SOME prints are supposed to be there.

IMHO, a stranger abductor would not have taken the time to wipe down surfaces of prints. They'd have worn gloves and not worried about the family's prints being there.

 

[Ladylub]

I think he lived on the same street - hard to miss the police cars and such. I would bet a lot of people in the neighborhood knew in short order?

Right but it seems odd that police would allow him to leave without talking to him first. If he talked to police why would he not alert the police to the tunnels instead of him going himself.

 

[AZYaYa]

It hasn't been released what she was wearing the night before at the baseball game. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that she put back on her dirty clothes, but that's just me.

Personally, I am surprised they'd have her shower that late at night when she would be getting dirty playing ball less than 11 hours later.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Just seeing a pink page, search page

Just put in 5602 E. 12th, Tucson, AZ under Address & Neighbors tab.

12th street, 4th house from Isa's.

http://www.whitepages.com/?site_id=15277&gclid=CKSegrKqpLACFQF7hwodCAwWWQ

sorry for the edits.

Hi Quiche!