AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #21

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I did not mean to single you out or come off as snarky. I was just scanning the last few pages and noting that pjs were back on topic. No big thing.
As to not knowing, right now I could not tell you what my girls wore to bed last night for sure. my best guess is one had on pink shorts and a white tee? and one had on maybe a black tank top and some other colored shorts? But I am not sure, and I sat with them in their PJs and watched a few puppy videos on youtube and taked about their plans for this week now that school is out...we probably hung out for an hour after their showers, and I have no REAL answer as to their PJs. I would have to go check the laundry basket to be sure. They each have a drawer for old tees and shorts that they use as PJs, and they just grab something out of it at night time, and I don't think to take note or remember what they choose at all, never occured to me to do so. JMO

ETA and if you asked my husband, he would have no clue. and if you asked each daughter what the other had on, they would only know if it happened to be something borrowed from eachother, because that is the only time they really comment on each other's clothes.
thank you!

I don't exactly know why... But this was one of THE most refreshing, honest posts I feel,I,have read in a while!

Not certain,of daughters' Jammie's/bed clothes? same here!

cute how DDs wouldn't know what the other was wearing unless,it was borrowed! :blow kiss:

sorry about messymiPad typing!:please:
 
Little girls clothes are usually all cotton anyway so i dont think it would matter . the short sets are usually just like the P J's

Im curious when the boys last saw her and if they were up later than Mom and Dad!

Me too! Did I read that the boys were playing video games in their room? It seems they may have been awake very late. Isa was still awake @ 2330 (very late for a little girl who has a ballgame in the am). Did we ever hear what time that ballgame was, BTW?

If we knew what time the boys fell asleep, the timeline would be easy.
 
A new law went into effect in 2010
Starting today, Arizona residents at least 21 years old can carry a concealed weapon without a permit.

The change is part of a broad weapons law by state Sen. Russell Pearce passed by the state Legislature in April that eases restrictions on concealed carry and stiffens penalties for committing a crime while carrying a concealed weapon.

The law is one of many passed by the state Legislature this past session that go into effect today.

Arizona joins Alaska and Vermont as the only states to allow concealed weapons without a permit.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep...zona-concealed-weapons-law.html#ixzz1wCuStOqn

So do they now permit RSOs to own firearms in AZ? That was my question. Someone stated that the search of the RSO's home turned up a pellet gun and a shotgun. I wanted to verify that he was not in violation of the terms of his release to have a gun in his home. I guess your answer is meant to say it is now OK. Remind me NOT to move to AZ.
 
A new law went into effect in 2010
Starting today, Arizona residents at least 21 years old can carry a concealed weapon without a permit.

The change is part of a broad weapons law by state Sen. Russell Pearce passed by the state Legislature in April that eases restrictions on concealed carry and stiffens penalties for committing a crime while carrying a concealed weapon.

The law is one of many passed by the state Legislature this past session that go into effect today.

Arizona joins Alaska and Vermont as the only states to allow concealed weapons without a permit.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep...zona-concealed-weapons-law.html#ixzz1wCuStOqn

But I *think* there are restrictions, such as those posted ? <snip> No felons, sex offenders or anyone convicted of domestic violence ... Have a headache, so will defer to any of our legal sorts.
 
So do they now permit RSOs to own firearms in AZ? That was my question. Someone stated that the search of the RSO's home turned up a pellet gun and a shotgun. I wanted to verify that he was not in violation of the terms of his release to have a gun in his home. I guess your answer is meant to say it is now OK. Remind me NOT to move to AZ.
I did not say RSO The article states 21 and over. As far as RSO civil rights
I have NO idea. Was just correcting a State law.
 
7. "Prohibited possessor" means any person:

(a) Who has been found to constitute a danger to self or to others or to be persistently or acutely disabled or gravely disabled pursuant to court order under section 36-540, and whose right to possess a firearm has not been restored pursuant to section 13-925.

(b) Who has been convicted within or without this state of a felony or who has been adjudicated delinquent for a felony and whose civil right to possess or carry a gun or firearm has not been restored.

(c) Who is at the time of possession serving a term of imprisonment in any correctional or detention facility.

(d) Who is at the time of possession serving a term of probation pursuant to a conviction for a domestic violence offense as defined in section 13-3601 or a felony offense, parole, community supervision, work furlough, home arrest or release on any other basis or who is serving a term of probation or parole pursuant to the interstate compact under title 31, chapter 3, article 4.1.

(e) Who is an undocumented alien or a nonimmigrant alien traveling with or without documentation in this state for business or pleasure or who is studying in this state and who maintains a foreign residence abroad. This subdivision does not apply to:

(i) Nonimmigrant aliens who possess a valid hunting license or permit that is lawfully issued by a state in the United States.

(ii) Nonimmigrant aliens who enter the United States to participate in a competitive target shooting event or to display firearms at a sports or hunting trade show that is sponsored by a national, state or local firearms trade organization devoted to the competitive use or other sporting use of firearms.

(iii) Certain diplomats.

(iv) Officials of foreign governments or distinguished foreign visitors who are designated by the United States department of state.

(v) Persons who have received a waiver from the United States attorney general.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/arizona.pdf
 
Anyone see anything about checking the bathroom (shower) drains in all those 500+pages?
 
Do you mean Rebecca, rather than Sierra?

I believe,this,poster,is referring to Sierra's mom, Marlene.

Marlene may have known from LE about,the red Jetta, etc., therefore she seemed awkward in interviews because she was trying not t,o divulge LE' info.

JMO
 
I did not say RSO The article states 21 and over. As far as RSO civil rights
I have NO idea. Was just correcting a State law.

I quoted this: "Arizona allows any law abiding citizen over age 21 to carry a gun openly. No felons, sex offenders or anyone convicted of domestic violence are permitted to do so."

You replied with this: "A new law went into effect in 2010
Starting today, Arizona residents at least 21 years old can carry a concealed weapon without a permit.

The change is part of a broad weapons law by state Sen. Russell Pearce passed by the state Legislature in April that eases restrictions on concealed carry and stiffens penalties for committing a crime while carrying a concealed weapon.

The law is one of many passed by the state Legislature this past session that go into effect today.

Arizona joins Alaska and Vermont as the only states to allow concealed weapons without a permit."

So... I said that law abiding citizens over 21 (not RSO's, etc.) could carry guns. You answered that anyone over 21 can carry a gun. I assumed you were posting this to correct my assertion that an RSO could not carry a gun. If not, then... huh?
 
Finally found where they had checked the tunnels 'nearly to Rosemont'...p 66 of pdf 3 bottom of page:

"...We assisted them with searching surrounding wash and tunnels that extended almost to the intersection of E Broadway and N Rosemont..."

So they did search those tunnels and it looks like they did it with the dogs...

Thanks for this.. this report is also focused in the Wilshire Heights area, and I just realized that the evidence LE blacked out on the report was found in the same alleyway where the man was sitting on the electrical box behind the witness's home. The first report was on page 17 of pdf 3 where the officer ran into the witness at about 9 or 930 am the morning Isa went missing. The witness reported this man on the electrical (utility) box. It appears some time later the DOC K9 units discovered the evidence in same alleyway in this report in pdf 3 page 66.

This is also the spot where NMc was spotted at 10 AM with a mag flashlight described on page 17 of pdf 3.

I have added this stuff to my map.

Thanks again.
 

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No, you're fine -relax :)

I think many of us who have read every thread here daily get frustrated when someone comes in, makes no effort to catch up and just asked for links to things that are usually a couple a pages behind in the same thread :)

Add to that a lot of new people that are still learning the rules.

Then there is the topic like PJs that people have got past - ruling it unimportant (to them) and just trying to save you time by not indulging in the banter lol But that is up to you ... there is always someone to help you catch up (seriously some saints reside on this site)

Just to add to your Jammie post, if my grandson gets tired and cranky quickly, or falls asleep in the car on the way home - ain't no way in heck I am going to wake him to get him in his jammies LOL I am a mean Nan ;) lol

Thanks. I always try to read back before asking a question. But I might opine on topics already discussed, because I was not present at discussion time! And, I KNOW what you mean if a child falls asleep on the way home. Been THERE.
 
Thanks for this.. this report is also focused in the Wilshire Heights area, and I just realized that the evidence LE blacked out on the report was found in the same alleyway where the man was sitting on the electrical box behind the witness's home. The first report was on page 17 of pdf 3 where the officer ran into the witness at about 9 or 930 am the morning Isa went missing. The witness reported this man on the electrical (utility) box. It appears some time later the DOC K9 units discovered the evidence in same alleyway in this report in pdf 3 page 66.

This is also the spot where NMc was spotted at 10 AM with a mag flashlight described on page 17 of pdf 3.

I have added this stuff to my map.

Thanks again.

Definitely looks like there could be connections between the suspicious person, the person sitting on the electrical box, the tunnel person... I think it's already been noted that two of those are white males, 35 years old an the timing is a bit uncanny.

Thanks to everyone who has worked on this!
 
Something else has bothered me very much from the beginning: If dad knew enough to know that Isabel's window was closed the night before when he last checked in on her, then how come he didn't notice that the window was ajar and the screen out and the blinds pushed aside when he first went to get her up for her game?

This is pretty basic: Dad goes to get Isabel, she isn't in her room. But AS, the neighbor, said that when she went outside after SC and the uncle came to her door, she saw Isa's window "wide open" and could see inside. She was also asked if she had ever seen that window open before and she said "no."

How could Sergio miss that? How could anyone miss that? He said his son discovered that the wndow was open and the screen was out.

Doesn't make sense.
Hiya Lark:seeya: In reading your post it brought a few things to mind so am pretty much using your post as jumping off point beginning with the issue you above posted.. This of course is moo and what I thought could possibly make better sense of what it is you're questioning about Sergio missing the glaring obvious.. I believe that when Sergio entered Isa's room and saw that she was not there that quite likely(I know if it were me) I would not automatically jump straight to her being gone from the home.. What I mean is you see your child isn't in their bed.. Well IMO you first assume that the child has already gotten up and is elsewhere in the home and that easily could and generally does happen in my household while say I was in the bathroom or wherever and my child has already gotten up and is another part of the home.. I believe this is likely what Sergio, too assumed.. Therefor he's not immediately going to freak and start ripping up beds and tearing out closets looking for her and certainly isn't going to believe that she's gone out her window(and yes I'm getting to the obvious open window).. I believe that Sergio simply saw that Isa wasn't in her bed and from there left her room to go look elsewhere in the home for where she was..

Now back to the open window.. Just as you brought up , Lark, we have AS saying that AFTER THE UNCLE HAD KNOCKED ON HER DOOR SHE LEARNED ISA WAS MISSING.. It's at that point that AS goes and looks through her window and sees that Isa's window is open, blinds and curtains pushed to the side and a wide open, clear view directly into Isa's bedroom.. My point for CAPS ABOVE IS FOR EMPHASIS OF WHEN IT WAS THAT A.S. LOOKED THRU ISA's WINDOW.. IT WAS AFTER BEING NOTIFIED BY THE UNCLE.. My point being that IMO it is very very likely that THE WINDOW WAS NOT IN THIS WIDE OPEN VIEW WHEN SERGIO OR THE SON ENTERED ISA's room.. I believe that AFTER SERGIO ENTERED HER ROOM, SAW HER NOT IN BED AND LEFT TO GO OUT THRU THE HOUSE TO FIND WHERE SHE WAS.. That at the point of he and the two boys realizing she wasnt in any other part of the home and NOW THEY ARE SEARCHING THE HOME MORE THOROUGHLY.. Therefor the oldest son enters back into Isa's room.. He now very likely was looking under the bed, in the closet, and IMO I believe that the window was open BUT THAT THE BLINDS AND CURTAINS WERE JUST HANGING IN FRONT OF THE OPEN WINDOW SO THAT AT FIRST GLANCE ONE WOULD NOT IMMEDIATELY REALIZE THE WINDOW BEHIND THE BLINDS WAS ACTUALLY OPEN.. (if any doubt this is possibe I ask that you raise open a window of your home and leave your blinds and curtains hanging down in their normal position.. Without there being present a windy, draft flowing thru you WOULD NOT immediately know that behind that curtain and blinds the window was actually open)..

I believe that due to the fact that when Sergio entered Isa's room and saw she was not in bed that AT THAT TIME HE WAS NOT IN A MODE OF PANIC YET.. But rather just naturally assumed she was elsewhere In the home.. With the blinds and curtains covering the fact that window was actually even open.. IMO he was likely in there only a matter of seconds and once seeing she wasn't there he leaves the room and easily and IMO with very good reason did not immediately notice the window..

As I said at the point that worry began to set in when none of the 3 of them could find Isa In the home you have the oldest son re-enter Isa's room.. Definitely IMO in a totally different frame of mind as well as definitely more thoroughly searching through her bedroom which it is at that time that the oldest son most likely moved aside the blinds and curtains, he immediately realizes the screen is not present, and IMO at that point quite likely leaned thru the window and looked out at which time he sees the screen outside on the ground..MOO is that at this point real fear is setting in(as IMO we can hear in the sons voice on 911 call).. He realizes something BAD has now happened and I'd say he calls dad into Isa's room and at that point Sergio too likely examined and looked out of the window as well.. IMO at this point is when the older son left out of the home to begin searching thru the neighborhood.. As well as ATLEAST one other family member going door to door(uncle knocks on AS door)..And as we know Sergio summons Becky home and calls 911..

So, you see in looking at the chain of events it is apparent that AS was notified of Isa missing and THEN SHE GOES AND LOOKS AND SEES ISA's BEDROOM WINDOW WIDE OPEN WITH BLINDS AND CURTAINS PUSHED ASIDE.. her view of the window is obviously AFTER THE SON HAS MOVED ASIDE THE BLINDS AND CURTAINS THUS LEAVING THE CLEAR VIEW INTO ISA's BEDROOM FOR A.S. TO SEE.. I do not believe it was this way when the son discovered it initially.. I believe that it is due to his and likely Sergio as well.. Their having cleared to the side the blinds and curtains and leaned out and over to see the screen and such.. That it is that which had the window in the wide open view that AS would several minutes later be able to look thru to see inside Isa's room..

Hope that was explained well enough to make sense as I am often unable to successfully relay what I can see crystal clear in my minds eye.. But IMO I do believe that it was the events similar to what I describe that help explain and IMO make logical sense of why Sergio did not immediately know that the window was open.. Jmo,tho..


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:
 
Definitely looks like there could be connections between the suspicious person, the person sitting on the electrical box, the tunnel person... I think it's already been noted that two of those are white males, 35 years old an the timing is a bit uncanny.

Thanks to everyone who has worked on this!

Speculation only: perhaps this guy's girlfriend is providing a hinky alibi for him and SHE is who Pacheco is speaking to in his latest quote to "just call“
 
Thanks to prof for the map!

Again, not to defend weird old Mcdonald but those tunnels were the first place I thought of...but I did not run off with a flashlight to look in em, that's for sure! I thought about calling it in as a tip but assumed that would be one of the first places they would look. They were kind of creepy when they were just long culverts under Craycroft too many decades ago, now nope, not even my stupidly brave 10 year old self would venture into that creepy lair of something bad...

McD may just be a weird guy whose brave enuf to look there...or maybe its HIS lair...
 
Definitely looks like there could be connections between the suspicious person, the person sitting on the electrical box, the tunnel person... I think it's already been noted that two of those are white males, 35 years old an the timing is a bit uncanny.

Thanks to everyone who has worked on this!

Do you remember where it was noted the similarity in the description? I do know that NMc is 35. I wonder if he matches the rest of the description or if LE showed the witness his picture.
I wonder if they served warrants down the whole block, or just to two homes?
NMc and the RSO's homes.
I would like to know what NMc looks like. I wonder if we have that somewhere.
The witness gave a pretty good description, as he confronted the guy sitting on the utility box and asked him to move on.
The timing is scary.
IMO
 
Me too! Did I read that the boys were playing video games in their room? It seems they may have been awake very late. Isa was still awake @ 2330 (very late for a little girl who has a ballgame in the am). Did we ever hear what time that ballgame was, BTW?

If we knew what time the boys fell asleep, the timeline would be easy.
BBM

I have heard 9:00am. Which would leave only one hour from the time Sergio says he got out of bed to get the children ready and there.

MOO
 
BBM

I have heard 9:00am. Which would leave only one hour from the time Sergio says he got out of bed to get the children ready and there.

MOO

I'd like to know what time SC called Isabel's Little League coach to tell her she wouldn't be at the game, she's missing. (This is in the 500+ pages.; he called the coach.)
 
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