AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #21

[Prof]

Thanks to prof for the map!

Again, not to defend weird old Mcdonald but those tunnels were the first place I thought of...but I did not run off with a flashlight to look in em, that's for sure! I thought about calling it in as a tip but assumed that would be one of the first places they would look. They were kind of creepy when they were just long culverts under Craycroft too many decades ago, now nope, not even my stupidly brave 10 year old self would venture into that creepy lair of something bad...

McD may just be a weird guy whose brave enuf to look there...or maybe its HIS lair...

I just think that it is odd that he would be there so quickly, that spot. What evidence did they bag a block from where the police saw him?
Did the park neighbor's see him at 9 -930 am in the alley sitting on a utitlity box? What evidence did the DOC K9 units find there?
The police were all over those blocks. It just seems odd, and his behavior odd. Then to question a warrant? IDK
There's more to it JMO

 

[Taminator]

BBM

I have heard 9:00am. Which would leave only one hour from the time Sergio says he got out of bed to get the children ready and there.

MOO

Since everyone apparently had their showers the night before and Isa's hair was already taken care of, I'm sure it would have been pretty quick to head out the door. Even quicker if the boys weren't planning on going to the game, but I'm sure they were.

I think the park is not very far from the home?

 

[winterrose]

I asked about the Hyundai earlier and speculation was it could have been the guy who gave the son a ride home. Or, I wonder if it was one of the family who had already arrived? If this has already been resolved - Sorry!

I think all four are their vehicles, because this was for the evidence processing photographs, inside and out. There were alot of vehicles coming, family and some friends. I don't think they'd be photographing every vehicle on a crime scene. Officer Nygren was doing these, he's the forenisics guy. Also it says all the bedding was taken out by detectives prior to his arrival. So this was while the investigation was going on, not when it first started.

 

[gliving]

Anyone see anything about checking the bathroom (shower) drains in all those 500+pages?

Good question. Nope I haven't seen anything about that. I think we need to remember these docs are from Tucson PD. We haven't see anything from the FBI, state marshals, the special behavioral units, border patrol. We just have a little snippet of what's been documented. Like 50 pieces to a 1000 piece puzzle and we don't even have the puzzle box lid to see what the puzzle is.

I'd love to see the behavioral unit's notes and their mock-up of a likely perp.

 

[time]

Do you remember where it was noted the similarity in the description? I do know that NMc is 35. I wonder if he matches the rest of the description or if LE showed the witness his picture.
I wonder if they served warrants down the whole block, or just to two homes?
NMc and the RSO's homes.
I would like to know what NMc looks like. I wonder if we have that somewhere.
The witness gave a pretty good description, as he confronted the guy sitting on the utility box and asked him to move on.
The timing is scary.
IMO

Prof... this one attachment you just posted

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22781&d=1338246039

Last sentence, suspicious person is 35, white, black hair, 5'10", 215#, white shirt.

I looked up NM on veromi and he is 35. I don't know if he is described more by LE... I thought he might have been but not as detailed. I guess if NM is a skinny guy, the deal is off.

(adding, also NM was wearing a white tshirt and the other guy a white shirt.)

 

[MBK]

Since everyone apparently had their showers the night before and Isa's hair was already taken care of, I'm sure it would have been pretty quick to head out the door. Even quicker if the boys weren't planning on going to the game, but I'm sure they were.

I think the park is not very far from the home?

True. (Well, breakfast WOULD be nice, since it's not quite clear if the Celis family all had dinner the night before, or not. Just potato chips at the game? Dunno what dishes were in the sink, of course. ) :moo:

 

[time]

Thanks to prof for the map!

Again, not to defend weird old Mcdonald but those tunnels were the first place I thought of...but I did not run off with a flashlight to look in em, that's for sure! I thought about calling it in as a tip but assumed that would be one of the first places they would look. They were kind of creepy when they were just long culverts under Craycroft too many decades ago, now nope, not even my stupidly brave 10 year old self would venture into that creepy lair of something bad...

McD may just be a weird guy whose brave enuf to look there...or maybe its HIS lair...

Don't feel bad ... I had those thoughts also!

 

[winterrose]

Do we have a PDF number and page number for this?
TIA

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173760&page=14
It's my post #333. I should put it on the PDF links, but I need the link again. NMc and his gf came up to the offc and asked about the service of the warrant. So NMc did get one, because his Vw was in the search evidence photographed, same lic # as when they went through driving in a vehicle checkpoint.

 

[Knox]

NMc, service of a warrant? Was their home searched with a warrant, also?

Note to volunteers for a missing child: Never go out alone when searching for a missing child, take someone with you.

Great find WR!! Could this relate to the CD's at the storage unit?

Sorry, only have a few minutes and trying to stay halfway up to speed with the thread. Check in later to see if you already found the answer to my question :seeya:

 

[BaxterDE42]

Concerning the blood.....I wonder if Isa's little dog is female,and if she has been spayed??:

I am playing catch up here so forgive me if this is addressed further along the thread.

If the stain is determined to be blood further testing such as species origin testing is done, especially when animals may have been in or around a crime scene. Also note there are further tests to determine if the "hit" for blood by luminol is actually blood as many house hold products and other chemicals and minerals can give a false positive.

 

[winterrose]

Great find WR!! Could this relate to the CD's at the storage unit?

Sorry, only have a few minutes and trying to stay halfway up to speed with the thread. Check in later to see if you already found the answer to my question :seeya:

I don't know, they had a search warrant for a number of homes checked 4/21 and the storage unit was checked the next day after 3pm. Knox, there was the three page report done 4/21 around 10pm, signed off by an Offc Ward and it said pending. The 2nd page was of the evidence, cds, the 3rd page was telling the time and detectives that went to the storage unit where they were found. I can't find where Offc Ward's anywhere else right now, still checking. I guess that's in sealed records.

 

[mamamia54]

Thanks for this.. this report is also focused in the Wilshire Heights area, and I just realized that the evidence LE blacked out on the report was found in the same alleyway where the man was sitting on the electrical box behind the witness's home. The first report was on page 17 of pdf 3 where the officer ran into the witness at about 9 or 930 am the morning Isa went missing. The witness reported this man on the electrical (utility) box. It appears some time later the DOC K9 units discovered the evidence in same alleyway in this report in pdf 3 page 66.

This is also the spot where NMc was spotted at 10 AM with a mag flashlight described on page 17 of pdf 3.

I have added this stuff to my map.

Thanks again.

Well that man really got around. Suspicious or helping?

 

[makayla]

On April 21st LE went to the apt of two of RC's brothers, checked it and interviewed three of the brothers and her father in the apt, on E Lakeside Parkway. Two days later her brother RR's truck was taken at night with a search warrant to police evidence. Also on 4 23 they were checking traffic cameras for Isa in a vehicle for as early as 9pm April 20th to 10am April 21st. So it seems like the last time she was seen by anyone other than family was 9pm that night at the ballpark.

Thanks for this timeline, so this means technically the last time Isabel was seen by anyone else that can be verified is around 9 p.m. on the night of the 20th, which widens the time frame during which something could have happened to her - especially if her immediate family is not telling the truth and made up the scenarios with showers/hair-braiding and going to bed. I wonder if by some chance Isa left the ball park with someone else? I've so far believed the family was telling the truth about being at home with her late evening, but we don't have actual proof of that, so it's good to know about LE checking the traffics cams.

 

[winterrose]

Thanks for this timeline, so this means technically the last time Isabel was seen by anyone else that can be verified is around 9 p.m. on the night of the 20th, which widens the time frame during which something could have happened to her - especially if her immediate family is not telling the truth and made up the scenarios with showers/hair-braiding and going to bed. I wonder if by some chance Isa left the ball park with someone else? I've so far believed the family was telling the truth about being at home with her late evening, but we don't have actual proof of that, so it's good to know about LE checking the traffics cams.

This is what I thought when I saw their timeframe, except I don't think the boys could keep something like that. If they had found since then, she wasn't home after 9pm, someone would be a POI in the family. I think at first after investigating, they were looking at the family heavily.

 

[Taminator]

Well that man really got around. Suspicious or helping?

He sounds like a definite creeper. Especially if all these "white T-shirt" guys are all the same. I am inclined to think it is. What are the chances of 3 guys in the same area doing weird things and dressed pretty much identical.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I was one of the PJ people. I don't think there is a dang thing wrong with wearing shorts and a top to sleep. Or just a top. Or just underpants. I know there were hot nights as a kid my mom let us sleep in swimsuits! I don't think it was neglectful or abusive, it was just a stupid thing that we did.

The ONLY REASON I have asked about the PJs is that IIRC, someone early on (who I believe had helped Isabel when she was choking on something at the game) said that she had on a light tank top and navy shorts at that time. IF the "light" top was pink, then this is what Sergio said she walked by in saying she was too sleepy to want food... or rather, when he went in, dimmed her light and tucked her in... I keep forgetting which it was... (LOL).

Sergio stated that they all had showered. If that is the case, it sounds as if HE believes she redressed in the dirty clothing (she was on the playground, not sitting on the bleachers the whole time) after she bathed. Even if DAD was too oblivious to notice, Mom (who braided her hair) ALSO said she had on navy blue shorts, but that she was in a dark blue shirt (if she had been playing hard in the dirt in a light colored shirt, she might have changed when she got home whether or not she had showered, just because it was visibly dirty). I don't care if she slept in her Halloween costume, to be honest, but her oldest brother was of the opinion that she slept in pajamas, (either pink or green - suggesting he often saw her in pajamas at bedtime, and these were the sets she wore), so if she showered, why didn't she put on what she normally wore to sleep?

It just seems like MAYBE she didn't shower. She could have been too tired to shower or change, and that is okay too. She had an early game and was only going to get dirty again, so why would a parent make up a story about their kid showering?

Exactly! THIS is the only question I have about Isa's clothes/jammies.

What was she wearing at the park?

Did she really shower like SC said EVERYONE did?

What did she wear to bed, since those were the last clothes she would have been seen wearing?

I don't think it is a discussion about 'proper' sleeping attire, it is a very valid question about timeline and accurate clothing description. Pretty important stuff to get straight.

I really don't see why some people are having issues with discussing exactly what Isa was last seen wearing. I think conflicting statements about a missing child's clothing are sort of important, but what do I know?

 

[panthera]

Thanks for this timeline, so this means technically the last time Isabel was seen by anyone else that can be verified is around 9 p.m. on the night of the 20th, which widens the time frame during which something could have happened to her - especially if her immediate family is not telling the truth and made up the scenarios with showers/hair-braiding and going to bed. I wonder if by some chance Isa left the ball park with someone else? I've so far believed the family was telling the truth about being at home with her late evening, but we don't have actual proof of that, so it's good to know about LE checking the traffics cams.

I don't believe everyone in the family could be lying about her being at home that night. There are two boys, Rebecca and Sergio. One of them may not be telling the complete truth about what happened once everyone was in bed, however, I don't believe all of them (especially the boys) could take part in a cover up.



MOO

 

[FrayedKnot]

I'd like to know what time SC called Isabel's Little League coach to tell her she wouldn't be at the game, she's missing. (This is in the 500+ pages.; he called the coach.)

Yes. And this bugs me to no end. At what point does completely inappropriate behavior rightfully provoke suspicion?

This man (SC) is just screaming out "suspect me! Suspect me!".

Can I help it if I do? Lol

 

[makayla]

This neighbor searching tunnels, claiming needing to go, of all things, eat breakfast!

Huge Red Flag for me.

was he the person who wouldn't show LE his DL?

Is he married/live with significant other?

would LOVE to hear what his roomie (wife/sig other/ etc.) says/said!

This guy is ringing some of my alarm bells as well - don't know if he's involved, but if he isn't, he sure is acting in a strange manner.

 

[winterrose]

For anyone who knows about latent prints, when the docs say the forensics offc saw no latent prints on the toyshelf, books on toyshelf, mirror on dresser next to window and the dresser itself, does that mean no fingerprints? Latent prints are just fingerprints that are invisible. If so, there were no prints, then someone wiped all that clean, right? Because they found a latent print on the screen and I think one on the window sill, which is odd, wouldn't there be more prints on those things, normally? I mean the sill and probably even the screen whoever put it on before. The toyshelf and such should have fingerprints all over them.