AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #22

[Lark2]

They are going to be just like parents of other missing children and will not be eliminated or ruled out. IMO

I've seen a lot of parents ruled out by this point (one a half months and post LDT's).

 

[leighmarker]

I don't think these are the reasons why LE doesn't want assistance in their searches.

And IMO there is very little searching even going on by LE except sporadically. Why? I think LE has their suspect in their sights and are simply waiting for him to break/plea/confess (SC).

I am starting to think you are right Lark!

 

[johnQpublic]

I don't think these are the reasons why LE doesn't want assistance in their searches.

And IMO there is very little searching even going on by LE except sporadically. Why? I think LE has their suspect in their sights and are simply waiting for him to break/plea/confess (SC).

Oh ok.. think what you will. I worked with a SARTEC unit in Maracopa County and those were the main reasons for not wanting random public going out places just walking about and about in protected lands. When people go walking off trails and venturing around desert areas things get disturbed, more people get lost, hurt etc. It just creates more problems and also causes alarm for agencies which fly over and monitor migration movement.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I've seen a lot of parents ruled out by this point (one a half months and post LDT's).

A lot?

May I ask who they are and how many?

Those I mentioned took polys too.

tia

 

[azmary]

I am starting to think you are right Lark!

I agree .....

 

[Prof]

but that's just it baxter, no one's out looking. and it's infuriating.

i agree with your post...and i also agree with much of what oceanblueeyes is saying, with a large caveat. it was LE who called CPS in may. bolded/snipped by me:

http://www.azfamily.com/news/CPS-step-up-involvement-in-case-of-missing-Tucson-girl-151221085.html

Lt. Fabian Pacheco said during the course of the ongoing investigation, detectives felt the need to get CPS more involved.

"I know that it raises a lot of questions as well, but unfortunately due to the sensitive and delicate nature of the investigation, we are not able to share additional details of why we're at this point," Lt. Pacheco said.

ok so...last year or at some point in the past, LE has been called to the home. we don't know why but according to very public and easily accessed pima county/tucson sherriff websites, there were no charges filed against either parent.

in december, CPS was called to the home having nothing to do with SC or IC.

in may, LE called CPS. CPS separated SC "to ensure the welfare of the older siblings," Lt. Pacheco said."

if neither CPS call was because of SC, IC, or RC...who does that leave us with???

Chief V. on May 14 in a presser stated that CPS has been involved since April 21 as part of normal protocal in a missing child investigation.
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_e7c41468-9dec-11e1-b1f1-001a4bcf887a.html

Who stated that CPS was called to home having nothing to do with SC or IC?
I don't remember this.
TIA

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

While I don't believe that the Celis's owe the public anything, on the other hand aren't they taking public donations? Aren't citizens VOUNTEERING to run the center? Don't they want a citizen if they see Isabel to call a tipline? The way I see it, they can't have it both ways. IF they want their daughter home, they should be brutally honest. No matter how bad it hurts. JMO

 

[Lark2]

Oh ok.. think what you will. I worked with a SARTEC unit in Maracopa County and those were the main reasons for not wanting random public going out places just walking about and about in protected lands. When people go walking off trails and venturing around desert areas things get disturbed, more people get lost, hurt etc. It just creates more problems and also causes alarm for agencies which fly over and monitor migration movement.

With all due respect, searches attached to LE cases are tightly controlled and supervised by LE liasons like those from the Marc Klass organization, whose personnel provide training to public volunteers and actully supervise the searches. These public searches are not just a bunch of roving people fanning out across random areas and trampling everything in sight.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

They are going to be just like parents of other missing children and will not be eliminated or ruled out. There simply is no way to verify their alibis and that is how people are ruled out. With all four of them being inside their own home that night until they hit the streets looking for Isa they have no way to prove they were there.

These parents/grandparents were never ruled out either until the actual perp was caught and of course then everyone knew they werent suspects. The Lunsfords, Greone, Van Dams, Smarts etc.....werent ever ruled out.

Imo, Sergio and Becky dont owe the public any explanation. As long as they are cooperating fully with LE then that is what should be expected of them. They shouldnt have to come out just to statisfy the public's curiosity, imo.

If either one dared to get an attorney that would be held against them too and seen as some type of guilt, imo.

IMO

And even though Steve Groene failed the polygraph, and everyone in the world knew he did. It didn't stop him from doing interviews on national tv. I guess it just depends on the parent.

 

[DhyanaAZ]

but that's just it baxter, no one's out looking. and it's infuriating.

i agree with your post...and i also agree with much of what oceanblueeyes is saying, with a large caveat. it was LE who called CPS in may. bolded/snipped by me:

http://www.azfamily.com/news/CPS-step-up-involvement-in-case-of-missing-Tucson-girl-151221085.html

Lt. Fabian Pacheco said during the course of the ongoing investigation, detectives felt the need to get CPS more involved.

"I know that it raises a lot of questions as well, but unfortunately due to the sensitive and delicate nature of the investigation, we are not able to share additional details of why we're at this point," Lt. Pacheco said.

ok so...last year or at some point in the past, LE has been called to the home. we don't know why but according to very public and easily accessed pima county/tucson sherriff websites, there were no charges filed against either parent.

in december, CPS was called to the home having nothing to do with SC or IC.

in may, LE called CPS. CPS separated SC "to ensure the welfare of the older siblings," Lt. Pacheco said."

if neither CPS call was because of SC, IC, or RC...who does that leave us with???

BBM - Who should be out looking? Do you mean LE? Or do you mean that there should be local everyday citizens out looking? TIA

 

[oceanblueeyes]

While I don't believe that the Celis's owe the public anything, on the other hand aren't they taking public donations? Aren't citizens VOUNTEERING to run the center? Don't they want a citizen if they see Isabel to call a tipline? The way I see it, they can't have it both ways. IF they want their daughter home, they should be brutally honest. No matter how bad it hurts. JMO

The donations willingly given is to up the reward money for anyone that gives LE information about Isa's disappearance and whereabouts. Also for supplies needed to make posters..fliers etc. It was nice to see that 10K of it was collected just last week. It shows no one has forgotten about Isa, imo.

I dont consider them taking anything. How is upping the reward money taking something if it is to be paid to another person if they call in a viable tip about Isa?

I believe LE has received over a 1,000+ tips and that was said at the last PC held by TPD.

Have it both ways... how? Both of them help out at the volunteer center.

Are you saying you think if someone had a legitimate tip about this adorable child they will withhold that tip because the Celis' have choosen not to speak out any further?

Money is money and money talks whether the parents ever do.

Brutally honest about what?

IMO

 

[johnQpublic]

With all due respect, searches attached to LE cases are tightly controlled and supervised by LE liasons like those from the Marc Klass organization, whose personnel provide training to public volunteers and actully supervise the searches. These public searches are not just a bunch of roving people fanning out across random areas and trampling everything in sight.

I think you way miss-read what I said I said RANDOM PEOPLE going out ON THIER OWN ACCORD I DID NOT SAY PEOPLE IN AUTHORIZED GROUPS OR POSSE'S ... READ what someone says.. I didn't say anything about trained organized groups. I said RANDOM PUBLIC. <Modsnip>

 

[DhyanaAZ]

It's hard to look for a needle in a haystack when you have no idea where the haystack is.

LE is not going to give up information so that citizens can look in places that they may or may not have to go back to and search. JMO. Not to mention we have been having dangerously high temperatures here. There's also the danger of snakes and other desert creatures that regular, well-meaning citizens may not be equipped to deal with. While I would love to be out there trying to find Isa, I'm not going to go wandering through the desert aimlessly unless I have a "haystack" in mind.

I agree. Also, I hate to be the one to say this, but if she's out in the desert where she would be found by said volunteers I highly doubt she would be found alive. JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

And even though Steve Groene failed the polygraph, and everyone in the world knew he did. It didn't stop him from doing interviews on national tv. I guess it just depends on the parent.

I dont trust LE anymore because of two cases.

LE can lie about anything they want and imo they lied to Steve because they had tunnel vision and thought he had something to do with the heinous crimes committed against his family.

And imo, LE lied again when they told an elderly grandmother (Ruth Lunsford) that she had failed too.

They were doing nothing more than putting pressure on people they were so sure were involved.

IMO

 

[CA Lady]

Chief V. on May 14 in a presser stated that CPS has been involved since April 21 as part of normal protocal in a missing child investigation.
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_e7c41468-9dec-11e1-b1f1-001a4bcf887a.html

Who stated that CPS was called to home having nothing to do with SC or IC?
I don't remember this.
TIA

The only report I am aware of about prior CPS was from the 5/18 candlelight vigil.

Snips:
Sergio Celis' sister, Elena Lukasiewicz, also went to the walk.

Sergio Celis had never talked to CPS until last Thursday, according to Lukasiewicz.

http://www.kvoa.com/news/isabel-celis-mother-attends-candlelight-vigil-walk/

 

[FrayedKnot]

For fingerprints the ones you can see are called patent and the ones that you dust and lift are latent. Not sure if that applies to bloodstains.

Aha! Thank you for that! Better verbiage, I agree! I was just guessing what they might mean.

 

[Lark2]

Snipped:

Both of them help out at the volunteer center.

Very little, from what we hear. I believe they have been there 3 times since she went missing.

Money is money and money talks whether the parents ever do.

Ain't that the truth! And now that the reward has reached $60,000, I am going to have to revive my Hoax theory. I always thought it was possible that this family might have gotten in over their heads financially and needed a big "payoff".

Could they have engineered this "abduction" with a family member, as a way to claim the reward money? Hey, they wouldn't be the first people to try! Perhaps Isabel is squirrled away somewhere with relatives, kept out of sight while the reward grows.

If this is the case, it would explain the calm demeanor of Sergio, and RC's comments about, "We'll get her back, it will just take a little longer than we expected."

Of course, if true, things have gone awry because they didn't stage the abduction scene well and so LE was suspicious from the start about their story.

But, what if??? And, how do you get out of this if it is the case?? Maybe that's why CPS stepped in? Maybe LE KNOWS this to be the case and feels SC might put the other kids at risk.

 

[Jules71]

Just want to clarify something - I thought the previous LE calls to the Celis home were minor - NOT the previous CPS visit in Dec. IOW, it was not the cps issue that was minor.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Snipped:



Very little, from what we hear. I believe they have been there 3 times since she went missing.



Ain't that the truth! And now that the reward has reached $60,000, I am going to have to revive my Hoax theory. I always thought it was possible that this family might have gotten in over their heads financially and needed a big "payoff".

Could they have engineered this "abduction" with a family member, as a way to claim the reward money? Hey, they wouldn't be the first people to try! Perhaps Isabel is squirrled away somewhere with relatives, kept out of sight while the reward grows.

If this is the case, it would explain the calm demeanor of Sergio, and RC's comments about, "We'll get her back, it will just take a little longer than we expected."

Of course, if true, things have gone awry because they didn't stage the abduction scene well and so LE was suspicious from the start about their story.

But, what if??? And, how do you get out of this if it is the case?? Maybe that's why CPS stepped in? Maybe LE KNOWS this to be the case and feels SC might put the other kids at risk.

I highly doubt that a family member is holding Isa. I really wish I felt that was true. I doubt if anyone calls in to give LE a viable tip that it will be anyone connected to the Celis family in any manner.

imo

 

[Lark2]

I think you way miss-read what I said I said RANDOM PEOPLE going out ON THIER OWN ACCORD I DID NOT SAY PEOPLE IN AUTHORIZED GROUPS OR POSSE'S ... READ what someone says.. I didn't say anything about trained organized groups. I said RANDOM PUBLIC. I swear some people are so quick to just jump right on top of what someone says and take what was said completely out of context.

Ok, sorry to offend, but I think I read your posts and replied accordingly. Anyway, there appear to be no public searches being done in this case, either random or organized.