AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #22

[white rabbit]

but that's just it baxter, no one's out looking. and it's infuriating.

i agree with your post...and i also agree with much of what oceanblueeyes is saying, with a large caveat. it was LE who called CPS in may. bolded/snipped by me:

http://www.azfamily.com/news/CPS-step-up-involvement-in-case-of-missing-Tucson-girl-151221085.html

Lt. Fabian Pacheco said during the course of the ongoing investigation, detectives felt the need to get CPS more involved.

"I know that it raises a lot of questions as well, but unfortunately due to the sensitive and delicate nature of the investigation, we are not able to share additional details of why we're at this point," Lt. Pacheco said.

ok so...last year or at some point in the past, LE has been called to the home. we don't know why but according to very public and easily accessed pima county/tucson sherriff websites, there were no charges filed against either parent.

in december, CPS was called to the home having nothing to do with SC or IC.

in may, LE called CPS. CPS separated SC "to ensure the welfare of the older siblings," Lt. Pacheco said."

if neither CPS call was because of SC, IC, or RC...who does that leave us with???

 

[Pedophobe]

Just what are THEY doing to get their daughter back? jmo

It seems that they are relying heavily on prayers....which is pretty much nothing.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It seems that they are relying heavily on prayers....which is pretty much nothing.

I dont agree. I have seen how the power of prayer works. Even doctors have admitted that it seems to work miracles.

They have to have faith that Isa will return to them and can never lose hope. Marc Klass always stresses to each parent in this same type of situation to never lose hope or give up. So the Celis' pray to God to help them.

I dont think this is going to end like they are praying it does but I dont fault them for one second for praying everyday.

Evil walks among us all and sometimes it is more powerful than good.

IMO

 

[Taminator]

It's hard to look for a needle in a haystack when you have no idea where the haystack is.

LE is not going to give up information so that citizens can look in places that they may or may not have to go back to and search. JMO. Not to mention we have been having dangerously high temperatures here. There's also the danger of snakes and other desert creatures that regular, well-meaning citizens may not be equipped to deal with. While I would love to be out there trying to find Isa, I'm not going to go wandering through the desert aimlessly unless I have a "haystack" in mind.

 

[GutFeeling!]

It seems that they are relying heavily on prayers....which is pretty much nothing.

Don't tell that to the ladies in the Church's prayer circle. People do believe that is all that is required - really if the Celis family has no clues as to where to look what else can they do to allow themselves to believe they are helping?

 

[MaryAnn]

I dont agree. I have seen how the power of prayer works. Even doctors have admitted that it seems to work miracles.

They have to have faith that Isa will return to them and can never lose hope. Marc Klass always stresses to each parent in this same type of situation to never lose hope or give up. So the Celis' pray to God to help them.

I dont think this is going to end like they are praying it does but I dont fault them for one second for praying everyday.

Evil walks among us all and sometimes it is more powerful than good.

IMO

I agree. Survey's have been conducted and people who pray live longer, heal faster and normally live a happier life. I think Prayer is very powerful. I also think you need to use other methods to look for your child don't get me wrong!

 

[leighmarker]

correct me if I am wrong, but haven't the police really not wanted any of the publics help in searching since this started? I remember thinking why is Sierra being searched for by so many and Isa appears to only have LE looking?

 

[BaxterDE42]

Portions espectfully snipped

but that's just it baxter, no one's out looking. and it's infuriating....

...if neither CPS call was because of SC, IC, or RC...who does that leave us with???

It is frustrating. We can only assume the "safety" issue involves SC but it may not be him or Becky personally. Maybe it is someone - a friend or friend of a friend or relative who statyed with them at the time CPS was called. This is why I find the forum so interesting. There are great researchers here! Give a possible "perp" or friend of one they can dig up a lot and also connect the dots. That has proven to be useful in some of the missing or unidentified cases.

--
MOO

 

[Jules71]

I think prayer helps the people who are praying and not the missing child. Sorry if that offends anyone - it is not meant to.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

I agree. Survey's have been conducted and people who pray live longer, heal faster and normally live a happier life. I think Prayer is very powerful. I also think you need to use other methods to look for your child don't get me wrong!

While I believe that prayer is very powerful, and I also believe that miracles really do happen, I also believe that my God helps those who help themselves. I really don't know what the Celis's should be doing, I know if it was my daughter, I would have to do more than pray.

 

[johnQpublic]

correct me if I am wrong, but haven't the police really not wanted any of the publics help in searching since this started? I remember thinking why is Sierra being searched for by so many and Isa appears to only have LE looking?

Sierra Lamar case was in California and thier public land laws are not quite the same as Arizona's. Arizona LE has thier reasons for not wanting public help in going out on search efforts other than having a difficult time excluding the person who searched an area and maybe disturbing the evidence there are many laws pertaining to public and protected land areas. There are many species of protected plants in the Arizona desert areas, there are unmarked Indian gravesite areas, there are conservation areas. There's just too many variables of "sticky" reasons why LE in AZ would not want people just milling around looking for someone. If a person of the public wants to help in search efforts all they need to do is join a Search Posse group that they can get certification and training from. There are ways for the public to get involved in search efforts but going out on independent expiditions just opens up to other problems.

 

[LisaB]

I think they would have to have a root bulb ..not just hair.

imo

I have hair to my waist. When there is a tangle, or if I brush it out while it is wet, I find complete hairs in the brush, either because I pulled one or two out breaking up the knot or because hairs that have already fallen out don't just fall to the ground... they sometimes get wrapped up in the attached hairs and then the brush pulls them free. Just a thought. I can't imagine them trying to reconstruct her DNA based upon her parents' DNA. I realize there are familial similarities, and that if they find remains, they can use the parental DNA to identify them, but they can't "BUILD" her DNA profile from the parents DNA can they? It can't be an "exact science" or she and her brothers would all have "the same" DNA. If they could grab her toothbrush or hairbrush they MIGHT have a chance of getting something. What about some of her dirty clothing?

 

[pieper4]

It seems the fund raising efforts and volunteer center are solely raising money for flyers and banners. This town is plastered with flyers. I truly don't see how more will help... BWDIK?

 

[LisaB]

Hi Guys,

Just wanted to make a quick note that SOME blogs are allowed. It depends on their content and how they are used. Cutting and pasting is not allowed. Please paraphrase or summarize and provide the link. DO NOT use a blog to claim or support facts. Blogs are just opinion pieces - not factual information.

It appears that this most recent blog everyone is linking to would be allowed for discussion purposes. AGAIN - they are NOT FACTUAL.

Hope that helps and if anyone has any concerns, please either alert or send a pm to one of the mods.

Thanks!

Salem

I am not sure if this is the one you mean, but ************.com (a blog that seems pretty responsible) has been discussing NMcD. I don't know if they came up with it on their own, or if they got it from here, but they seem to be touching on most of the points I have seen mentioned here. In addition, there is a suggestion that the neighbor who saw a man on the utility box DID say it was NMcD, FWIW. Part 2 of the story was supposed to go up yesterday, but the site now says it will be June 4.

ETA I guess the ************ means it is NOT the blog you were referring to.

 

[makayla]

Don't tell that to the ladies in the Church's prayer circle. People do believe that is all that is required - really if the Celis family has no clues as to where to look what else can they do to allow themselves to believe they are helping?

I think it takes a combination of prayer as well as cooperation from anyone who can offer information. I have no doubt the family appreciates the numerous prayers from people around the world who can't help in any other capacity.

Yes, I also believe in the extraordinary power of prayer, but I also believe that if Sergio, Becky and other family members would voluntarily offer any and all information they have, no matter how trivial they think it is, it could possibly help LE move forward and eliminate the family from the list of possible perpetrators. Surely the family can approach LE and set up a time to speak to them, even if they have to be accompanied by an attorney.

Speaking for myself, I would want to eliminate myself from the suspect list as soon as possible and I would find out the best and most expeditious way to do that. My concern is I don't see the family being very proactive in this area . . . JMO

***************
ETA: however, perhaps all family members can't be eliminated because one of them is involved JMO

 

[LisaB]

lol. hares. :giggle:

i think we're actually talking about two different vigils but here's the one i was talking about.

http://www.kvoa.com/videos/isabel-celis-mother-attends-candlelight-vigil-walk/

i realize not many agree with me...i just don't find the c's as genuine as others. it's not one particular event or comment it's the sum of all parts.

i also find it unnerving that to date, the TPD continues to stipulate that "no one has been ruled out". well, some should be at this point IMO. it's been well over a month -- they can't find credible, third-party alibi's for anyone? an RSO, neighbor, extended family member? i supposed they could have and simply aren't saying so...maybe...

eerily prophetic are SCJR's own words from that morning...pdf5 page 49...

"she asked him if he wanted her to help him look for her, and he said
"no, no. i don't think we'll find her"

BBM
IIRC, LE stated they were able to clear some family (presumably extended family) and most of the RSOs.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think it takes a combination of prayer as well as cooperation from anyone who can offer information. I have no doubt the family appreciates the numerous prayers from people around the world who can't help in any other capacity.

Yes, I also believe in the extraordinary power of prayer, but I also believe that if Sergio, Becky and other family members would voluntarily offer any and all information they have, no matter how trivial they think it is, it could possibly help LE move forward and eliminate the family from the list of possible perpetrators. Surely the family can approach LE and set up a time to speak to them, even if they have to be accompanied by an attorney.

Speaking for myself, I would want to eliminate myself from the suspect list as soon as possible and I would find out the best and most expeditious way to do that. My concern is I don't see the family being very proactive in this area . . . JMO

They are going to be just like parents of other missing children and will not be eliminated or ruled out. There simply is no way to verify their alibis and that is how people are ruled out. With all four of them being inside their own home that night until they hit the streets looking for Isa they have no way to prove they were there.

These parents/grandparents were never ruled out either until the actual perp was caught and of course then everyone knew they werent suspects. The Lunsfords, Greone, Van Dams, Smarts etc.....werent ever ruled out.

Imo, Sergio and Becky dont owe the public any explanation. As long as they are cooperating fully with LE then that is what should be expected of them. They shouldnt have to come out just to statisfy the public's curiosity, imo.

If either one dared to get an attorney that would be held against them too and seen as some type of guilt, imo.

IMO

 

[liz b.]

but that's just it baxter, no one's out looking. and it's infuriating.

i agree with your post...and i also agree with much of what oceanblueeyes is saying, with a large caveat. it was LE who called CPS in may. bolded/snipped by me:

http://www.azfamily.com/news/CPS-step-up-involvement-in-case-of-missing-Tucson-girl-151221085.html

Lt. Fabian Pacheco said during the course of the ongoing investigation, detectives felt the need to get CPS more involved.

"I know that it raises a lot of questions as well, but unfortunately due to the sensitive and delicate nature of the investigation, we are not able to share additional details of why we're at this point," Lt. Pacheco said.

ok so...last year or at some point in the past, LE has been called to the home. we don't know why but according to very public and easily accessed pima county/tucson sherriff websites, there were no charges filed against either parent.

in december, CPS was called to the home having nothing to do with SC or IC.

in may, LE called CPS. CPS separated SC "to ensure the welfare of the older siblings," Lt. Pacheco said."

if neither CPS call was because of SC, IC, or RC...who does that leave us with???

I do not think CPS would ever say who or what the Celis' case is about. It is confidential. But,just looking at what transpired can be illuminating : SC has been barred from ANY contact with the two remaining children. No way to sugar coat or spin that...MOO

Thae family could mention it if they CHOSE to. IMO the no contact order makes SC look guilty. Just some thoughts...
JMO

 

[johnQpublic]

Well there's still the UFO angle.... I'm not some UFO nut but I don't discount them after witnessing Lights over Phoenix when I lived at the base of South Mountain in 2005 and a few other occurances in Arizona.



http://images./wp-content/2010/10/manhattan-ufo.jpg

 

[Lark2]

Sierra Lamar case was in California and thier public land laws are not quite the same as Arizona's. Arizona LE has thier reasons for not wanting public help in going out on search efforts other than having a difficult time excluding the person who searched an area and maybe disturbing the evidence there are many laws pertaining to public and protected land areas. There are many species of protected plants in the Arizona desert areas, there are unmarked Indian gravesite areas, there are conservation areas. There's just too many variables of "sticky" reasons why LE in AZ would not want people just milling around looking for someone. If a person of the public wants to help in search efforts all they need to do is join a Search Posse group that they can get certification and training from. There are ways for the public to get involved in search efforts but going out on independent expiditions just opens up to other problems.

I don't think these are the reasons why LE doesn't want assistance in their searches.

And IMO there is very little searching even going on by LE except sporadically. Why? I think LE has their suspect in their sights and are simply waiting for him to break/plea/confess (SC).