AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #22

[DhyanaAZ]

Hi all. Any news? It doesnt look like it to me as conversation is still about if kids that age should bathe or shower :-(

I had to check out for the day. I needed a break after leaping out of bed last night to protect my children from the boogie man after the pool pump kicked on. And I told my husband to let the dog out because he "alerted" at the door. Had to take a time out.

hahahahaha, I had to take the same break for similar reasons.

 

[LisaB]

At least everyone doesn't think you are gun totin' stetson wearing hunters that have deer heads all around he house lol and I am Australian! lol

You've just shattered my illusions.

 

[nursebeeme]

reward increased by 10k

The 88-CRIME reward for information leading to an arrest in the disappearance of 6-year-old Isabel Celis is now $60,500.

A $10,000 donation from one person on Thursday brought the reward up to its present figure, said Susie Dupnik, executive director of 88-CRIME.

About 10 individuals have contributed to the fund, which totals $59,500 from private donations and $1,000 from 88-CRIME, Dupnik said.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_b737a7cb-d559-57d8-9386-8f29fcbee410.html

 

[curiousc]

Thinking of Isabel and hoping that she is found soon! Seems like there is no new info but I sure hope LE has more info than we think, like in Sierra's case.

 

[white rabbit]

Not to split hares, white rabbit. ()

But I can count three separate times RC has thanked police and the public. That is plural.

Out of curiousity, where did you get a copy of her "thanks" at the candlelight vigil? I looked online before I transcribed her prayer (didn't want to transcribe it if it was already out there) and I couldn't find the prayer OR her comments after.

lol. hares. :giggle:

i think we're actually talking about two different vigils but here's the one i was talking about.

http://www.kvoa.com/videos/isabel-celis-mother-attends-candlelight-vigil-walk/

i realize not many agree with me...i just don't find the c's as genuine as others. it's not one particular event or comment it's the sum of all parts.

i also find it unnerving that to date, the TPD continues to stipulate that "no one has been ruled out". well, some should be at this point IMO. it's been well over a month -- they can't find credible, third-party alibi's for anyone? an RSO, neighbor, extended family member? i supposed they could have and simply aren't saying so...maybe...

eerily prophetic are SCJR's own words from that morning...pdf5 page 49...

"she asked him if he wanted her to help him look for her, and he said
"no, no. i don't think we'll find her"

 

[white rabbit]

http://on.aol.com/video/record-nm-fire-spreading-in-all-directions-517384373

WOW. prayers for all the southwestern sleuthers.

 

[Hatfield]

The smoke is insane. It is hanging at the base of the mountains here and simply disgusting. Hope that puppy gets under control soon...

OT
I think we have smelled that darn smoke 3 states away from there. The past few days, we have noticed a faint smoke odor, mainly in the morning + late afternoon. I am almost positive it is the smoke from the huge fire there because a thunderstorm front passed through and I think it brought some of the smoke odor with it.

I hope they can get it under control. I feel for all the poor animals that are affected.

 

[BaxterDE42]

IDK, JMO but in my mind, honestly the only thing that is really anyones business is this ;

Everything else CPS , Past history, Particulars etc... Not Anyones Biz... Just look for Isabel !

Yes, it's nice to know things that can help look for her or figure out what happened but when it boils down to what we the public truely has a right to know, LE and the Family really shouldn't be obligated to tell us everything. At this point, the goal, find the kiddo, then dump the chum for the sharks. Yes it's nice to know what's up, but when is it too much info ? JMO

LOL! John Q I am not a voyer! I am capable of reasoning what is relevant and certainly appreciate input from anyone on their perspective. I believe everyone here is "looking" for Isy and bringing considerations from their unique perspective but I generally don't linger at posts insisting we have tunel vision or subscribe to a single event causing this horrific event.

It is not only "nice to have things that can help you look for her" (from your post); it is absolutely necessary and certainly not nice. Everything about child abduction is ugly and heart breaking.

Forget CPS? It seems they are central to these missing, abused and murdered children! What is important to know about them in this or any missing child case where CPS has previously had involvement? Whew, where to begin...
How many cases of child abuse or endangerment reported weekly?
How do they prioritize these reports?
How many cases are TOO many cases for one worker to handle?
What is the case workers expertise in profiling the family members and calculating the risk factor?
on and on and on...
CPS was there at SC's home so that point is very relevant to this case. Le would not dismiss or forget to include that fact as a relevant part of this investigation.
I am NOT sleuthing what happened in the C's home. For goodness sake - this is the internet! I have always taken the approach of believing none of what I hear and half of what I see until I have enough infor to to make an educaded and rational decision.

However, I am trying to understand the "workings" of this powerful entity that seems to yield far less in positive results than we give them credit for. They indeed need to be looked at.

There are many facets to a criminal investigation John Q, so if you can go walk the desert then I supoort that effort. But I believe LE has shown us that in order to search for a person, knowing who their friends and family and the interaction between them and the victim is the first place to start. Else, every citizen in ever state, county, city and town would be on call for each missing child. Noce concept but without information, finding a needle in a hay stact is much more likely.

 

[LisaB]

I just transcribed from video, the prayer that RC read at the Candlelight vigil on May 18, 2012. There was only one part that I couldn't understand one or two words, and there I'll put a **.

"Father, I am totally helpless in this situation. Father, only You can save my daughter. Only You know where she is located at.(sic) Only You, Father, know who this evil, mad predator is and how we can find him. Help the detectives to find...to find my daughter. (Pauses for 5-10 seconds while she composes herself) Father, please, in the name of Jesus Christ, move now to save my daughter's life from this unholy and foul creature. Give her a second chance to live again. Do not let her go home to be with You before it is her time to actually do so. Both myself, my husband, my boys and all of our family members and friends are now standing here before You and asking that you take this assignment of ** to bring my daughter back home quickly, as quickly as you deem possible. My daughter's life is now in Your mighty hands. Let Your Perfect Will now be done on this situation. We ask that You please have mercy on both our daughter and our family and bring her safely back home so we can all be reunited with her. Thank You, Father. Thank You, Jesus, for hearing all of our cries and petitions on this extreme matter. In Jesus' name. Amen."

Before she read it, she indicated that this is the prayer that she and Isa's family have said every night, together, since her disappearance.

I think my eyes are leaking a little. How heartbreaking.

 

[BaxterDE42]

Thnk you very much for the insightful reply!

Ok .. here is what happened to initiate all this. Said parent smashed into the other parents car, with the the child in the back of the car with naughty parent. Police were called by neighbours (who lost their gardens) and parent then went a little crazy and was committed for 72 hours.

This left the child in a situation that could be dangerous within days. Naughty parent admitted that their behaviour was drug induced , and that they had been doing drugs for years.

Because there was a child involved CPS were called (apparently this was not under child endangerment charges - but don't get me started on that) and believed it was in the best interest of the child AT THIS STAGE to stay away from naughty parent until they could seek help. Naughty parent was told to sign or the child would be put in state care. Good parent stepped up (and best they did because I own that one and would have kicked an arse to the curb if they didn't). To make life easier for good parent and to ensure naughty parent would get the treatment they promised they would, they signed the temporary (key word, this is all temporary at this stage) paperwork.
In my case things went down hill for naughty parent BUT that thirty days gave a decent amount of time for good parent to get an attorney and start proceedings against naughty parent for custody.

Now IF this is because SC was showing signs of anger issues or breakdown he may have signed for that reason and been told to see a doctor (they can be up to 90 days) and the reports come back that way. He has not broken any of the rules required by him so CPS don' have to worry about organising court cases.

It is very hard for me to explain because I don't want to cause more drama around here lol Hope that makes it clearer for you. Cps do have power but it is limited. Ohhhh and if during that time in this case they tested positive to drugs while rehabilitating they would have been able to get the police to make an arrest (that is from my understanding)

 

[LisaB]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/search.php?searchid=5608730

Does this search link help?

Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.

 

[galiuro]

The 'aircraft graveyard' aka the Boneyard is not a big hole in the ground, it is acres and acres of decommissioned military airplanes sitting atop the ground on the airbase. I suppose you could hide someone there if you chose but it is something of a controlled location ie the airbase, many of the planes are sealed up with a cover round the cockpit etc and it'd get pretty dang hot...

The mountains would be a better option..rugged canyons and yes old mineshafts and caves...

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

It's a real funky smell outside for sure from the fire.

There have been devastating wildfires burning in Michigan's upper peninsula for the past several days. Smoke can be seen and smelled in many areas of the northern lower peninsula - the very places "up north" that folks from metro-Detroit head for weekend getaways throughout the summer months.

If smoke lingers in your neck of the woods, please don't stay outdoors any longer than absolutely necessary, especially if you have asthma or any other respiratory ailments. Be safe.

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/05/gov_rick_snyder_calls_duck_lak.html

 

[oceanblueeyes]

LOL! John Q I am not a voyer! I am capable of reasoning what is relevant and certainly appreciate input from anyone on their perspective. I believe everyone here is "looking" for Isy and bringing considerations from their unique perspective but I generally don't linger at posts insisting we have tunel vision or subscribe to a single event causing this horrific event.

It is not only "nice to have things that can help you look for her" (from your post); it is absolutely necessary and certainly not nice. Everything about child abduction is ugly and heart breaking.

Forget CPS? It seems they are central to these missing, abused and murdered children! What is important to know about them in this or any missing child case where CPS has previously had involvement? Whew, where to begin...
How many cases of child abuse or endangerment reported weekly?
How do they prioritize these reports?
How many cases are TOO many cases for one worker to handle?
What is the case workers expertise in profiling the family members and calculating the risk factor?
on and on and on...
CPS was there at SC's home so that point is very relevant to this case. Le would not dismiss or forget to include that fact as a relevant part of this investigation.
I am NOT sleuthing what happened in the C's home. For goodness sake - this is the internet! I have always taken the approach of believing none of what I hear and half of what I see until I have enough infor to to make an educaded and rational decision.

However, I am trying to understand the "workings" of this powerful entity that seems to yield far less in positive results than we give them credit for. They indeed need to be looked at.

There are many facets to a criminal investigation John Q, so if you can go walk the desert then I supoort that effort. But I believe LE has shown us that in order to search for a person, knowing who their friends and family and the interaction between them and the victim is the first place to start. Else, every citizen in ever state, county, city and town would be on call for each missing child. Noce concept but without information, finding a needle in a hay stact is much more likely.

I really must agree with John Q. The main priority is finding Isa and bringing her home.

As far as CPS TPD said they are automatically involved when a family has a missing child which makes sense to me. From what I have read the first incident in December was minor and CPS never even spoke with Sergio leading me to believe it had nothing to do with him.

I think way too much emphasis is being made to Sergio's voluntary agreement with CPS to stay away from the boys. If he truly was such a danger to the children LE would have done something about him standing at the fence during the vigil where his son was. If he was so threatening LE would have gotten involved immediately with a criminal case against him... instead they said clearly they arent involved. That makes me think it has nothing to do with being abusive nor is about any maltreatment. Trying to guess what is an unknown is like trying to read tealeaves, imo. So I fail to understand the relevancy when TPD said CPSs agreement with Sergio has nothing to do with Isa.

With this case being a high profile case I believe CPS is giving the correct guidance to the parents and Sergio is agreeing that it is best if he is away from his boys at this time. He seems to be respecting the agreement and is only seen with Becky taking supplies to the volunteer center and moving supplies from the old location to the new one.

LE has already said they have interviewed numerous family, extended family, neighbors, people the Celis saw in ther social circle, aquaintances, and friends. So that has long been done.

You are correct looking for a body is like looking for a needle in a haystack and it is a daunting task but if everyone had that attitude and just gave up because it is too hard to find them then no victim would ever be found.

LE in Sierra Lamar's case really doesn't know where Torres but her body nor do the thousands of searchers who have searched for her but they arent giving up and know as long as they keep searching the odds are better of finding her than not searching at all and just giving up. And all of these people were searching long before the public knew Torres was the kidnapper and murderer. When at the time the internet suspicions were being cast on Marlene and accusations she was covering up for her boyfriend, Rick, who turned out to be totally innocent and had nothing whatsoever to do with the heinous crimes committed upon Sierra.

I cannot help find Isa. I live on the other side of the United States. If she is ever located it will be because either LE found her or some poor soul stumbles upon her, imo. I know LE doesnt want the family to search. I have seen that happen in many cases. They want them to just pass out fliers...etc. but I do wish a group of citizens there in Tucson would take it on their own and gather search parties and look for Isa.

IMO

 

[nursebeeme]

Volunteers helping with the search efforts for Isabel Celis say they've seen a decline in the number of people coming to the post and helping pass out flyers. The reason, they say, is because they're not as visible to the public anymore.

KOLD News 13 caught up with several volunteers moving in to their new spot at Abbie Tuller School last week.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/...celis-volunteers-since-moving-to-new-location


more at link: also no one has been ruled out and no suspects named

 

[johnQpublic]

One thing I really wonder about.... If there is nobody home, if the family has not been at the house much since this happened... WHAT IF she has been back, WHAT IF someone has tryed to bring her back ? Where is the family at now, are they back in the house ?

 

[LisaB]

CPS does not trump LE. LE has to have evidence (proof of allegations) to make an arrest. CPS only needs a 'risk' to be there.

As an example - My grandsons father picked him up by the throat to hold him face to face in Walmart one day. He is 5'9" tall so my grandson was raised off the floor 2 feet by his neck. I called Walmart, they found and held the video. I filed a police report and the police went to Walmart to get the video. The officer approached the Prosecuting Attorney with the video but the Attorney said the father could say he was just turning my grandsons face to his to confront him (like 'you listen to me') and refused to prosecute. I then called CPS. It was investigated and nothing was really done about it because there was a previous case for this child before but since this occurrence happened in a different county it was viewed as the first and nothing was done. CPS could have but refused to.

Anyway, CPS does not need evidence to request a no contact order.

Holy cow! I was dating a guy with kids and he did this same thing to one of them in a drug store. I was horrified. His ex-wife had told me he had done this sort of thing, but he denied it, and this was the first time I had seen anything that indicated it was true. I somehow convinced myself it was a one-time thing. Over the next few months, I saw him continue to abuse his children, but always at home. Eventually I told him I was calling 911 the next time he did anything to either of his boys. I wish I had thought about having the store hold onto that surveillance tape as evidence.

 

[GutFeeling!]

Thnk you very much for the insightful reply!

Thank you Court case was yesterday and my son now has full custody of my grandson.

I am glad CPS did what they did, they were also very supportive of my son and myself (reports had been made that we did drugs, were neglecting the child) CPS followed up on every one of those claims even though they were convinced at the beginning that they were lies.

Point is that this all started with a voluntary order and could have turned out very different had she not continually kept breaking that order. Seems SC is playing by the rules for whatever reason he signed.

 

[BaxterDE42]

I really must agree with John Q. The main priority is finding Isa and bringing her home....

Respectfully snipped

I did not disagree with JohnQ. I simply pointed out that an investigation is not about everyone running out to look for a person or body. It is a multi-faceted operation. I have just as much respect and admitration for a 911 operator who gathers initial information as the detective working the case.

It is counter productive to have tunel vision, to focus on one aspect of the case and ignore what some cannot understand as relevant. Again, my post was not to focus on SC's involvememt with CPS, it was to take a look at the possibilities of CPS dropping the ball in this case because there was some unknown CPS involvement at that particular residence several months back.

Perhaps the confusion was caused because my concern for having a thorough investigation AND follow up by CPS and most importantly that agency being accountable to someone and stop using case load as a reason for many failures. That was probably off topic yet they are most definately a part of ithis investigation.

Furthermore, I stated there were diverse opinions and ideas brought to the forum and ALL are considered valid points because each point is from the perspective of the poster. NO ONE here except for the mods should dictate what is to be the focus and start calling out jposters like a game of red-rover, leaving the board to a follow the leader cheer-leading game. This is certainly not a game.

From abuse to Cartel snatching....we have covered it all and certainly won't solve this case but each time we have a discussion on any missing child case, we (hopefully) gain more knowledge of the type of person capable of such an act and WHY the agencies set up to help protect them are failing! A good defense is the result of a good offense.

EDITED to say if anyone posting here is out looking for Isa or part of a search team, if you have time please up date us on you rprogress?

 

[MaryAnn]

Holy cow! I was dating a guy with kids and he did this same thing to one of them in a drug store. I was horrified. His ex-wife had told me he had done this sort of thing, but he denied it, and this was the first time I had seen anything that indicated it was true. I somehow convinced myself it was a one-time thing. Over the next few months, I saw him continue to abuse his children, but always at home. Eventually I told him I was calling 911 the next time he did anything to either of his boys. I wish I had thought about having the store hold onto that surveillance tape as evidence.

BBM
Does this Man still have custody of his children? This is very upsetting. I know I would go balistic after one episode and God help the Man that would do something like this in front of me. I wouldn't stand for anyone laying a hand on my pets, let alone a child.

I hope he's rotting in jail right now. JMO