AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #22

[winterrose]

The end of that video, or towards it, is the most interesting. It appears in a round about way, they were complaining not just about the chemical smell of an investigation in the rooms, but having to ask permission to clean it and that LE wasn't finished with the house at that time. I noticed a very changed expression and a taken back by SC when asked about an uncle, and who was closest to Isa. RC did say she didn't know where her brothers were that night, I almost felt they were being thrown under the bus, but that's possibly not how she meant it to sound. The uncles and aunts picked the kids up from school, the one aunt being very close to Isa. Their mood or demeanor seemed to change when asked about the uncles and aunt.

 

[Galadriel]

At this point, I would rejoice if it was a hoax, because that would mean sweet Isa is still alive. I've been dreading the day I come to the forum and see "Deceased" on her thread. Please God, just let her be safe!

 

[Jules71]

The end of that video, or towards it, is the most interesting. It appears in a round about way, they were complaining not just about the chemical smell of an investigation in the rooms, but having to ask permission to clean it and that LE wasn't finished with the house at that time. I noticed a very changed expression and a taken back by SC when asked about an uncle, and who was closest to Isa. RC did say she didn't know where her brothers were that night, I almost felt they were being thrown under the bus, but that's possibly not how she meant it to sound. The uncles and aunts picked the kids up from school, the one aunt being very close to Isa. Their mood or demeanor seemed to change when asked about the uncles and aunt.

I thought there was something off in that part of the video too but couldn't put my finger on it. For some reason to me, I got the impression from Becky that hearing Sergio say Isa was close with the aunt (I think it was) made her defensive. I started wondering if Sergio was the primary caretaker and closer to the children than Becky. Or he was more of the touchy feely nurturer than she was.

Does anyone know where employees park at TMC and if there are video cameras there? Can anyone confirm seeing her car parked there that morning? I know she went to work but it would be so easy to put a sleeping Isa in the car and have someone meet her to pick her up. Not sure what I think at this point.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[tiredblondy]

Things of a delicate nature, what could that mean?

 

[pieper4]

OT and OMG http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/02/12027829-police-mom-arrested-after-leaving-baby-on-car-roof-and-driving-off?lite

Ugh.

 

[Ditzie]

I haven't read the doc dump and all of the WS posts about this case, so sorry in advance if I'm beating a dead horse, so to speak. That said, this scenario occurred to me: <modsnip>

 

[Whisperer]

Apparent blood on the floor and Isa's dresser doesn't even have a print on it...wiped clean!

So she never got clothes out of her drawers and nothing was put in dresser since ...? last time of it being wiped clean. To me that is very unusual not to find any prints on the dresser. We need to know who cleaned it and wiped every drawer (man, I never do that) and when did they clean it.?

 

[Whisperer]

Welcome aboard Ditzie. It makes all of us wonder what happened in that house that night.

:welcome4:

 

[Whisperer]

LE always seems to check a car when they arrive to see if the engine is warm. I have to wonder what they found.

I'm still confused on Becky's work time. Why does this continually happen in missing children's cases. Nobody wants to discuss time of work....grrrr.

Sergio said she left @ 6:47 one time; Becky says she left @ 7:00; Sergio on 911 says his wife had just left for work and that was @ 0815. In the beginning the boss said Becky was at work early that day. I wonder what time early is....:waiting:

 

[Stash777]

Apparent blood on the floor and Isa's dresser doesn't even have a print on it...wiped clean!

So she never got clothes out of her drawers and nothing was put in dresser since ...? last time of it being wiped clean. To me that is very unusual not to find any prints on the dresser. We need to know who cleaned it and wiped every drawer (man, I never do that) and when did they clean it.?

I usually do my cleaning on my days off from work (usually during the week). So, just a bit of devil's advocate, RC or SC may have just cleaned the day before? Though even if that were true, they would have had to do this someday Friday and without having to touch anything in the mean time. Now that I'm trying to understand the lack of prints while responding to your post, I am having a difficult time explaining possibilities of the lack of prints.

Though at the same time, if it was a stranger who might have done this before, that person might have known how to prevent such prints? IDK, this case has me soooo confused and frustrated!

 

[TxLady2]

These parents haven't shed a tear in public. I don't care how private you are it is not normal. I suspect IMOO that they will cry when they finally get caught. IMOO

I also know with the layout of the house there is no way that RC could not of heard dogs barking in the early a.m. I have thought about it and perhaps if your in a deep sleep- but not when your up and getting ready for work. I suspect a trip to the bathroom, kitchen ect. No way in MOO that the dogs would not be heard.

Not to sound snarky, but how do we know they haven't shed a tear? They have been visibly upset, I've seen that at least once. But who is to say what is normal and not? I know people who refuse to cry in public. Would most of us break down if it was our child missing? YES... but not after so long a time, you eventually just go numb and there are no tears left. People can't maintain emotions like that indefinitely.

Holly Bobo's mother was a wreck, sobbing uncontrollably in front of the cameras, barely able to speak and people claimed it was an act, that she was faking it. Seems like no matter what parents do, it's wrong. They cry too much or not enough or not at all. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

As for the dogs barking in the early morning... maybe she is used to them barking and didn't pay attention. I doubt that whatever happened to Isa happened around the time Becky was getting ready for work.

 

[TxLady2]

I usually do my cleaning on my days off from work (usually during the week). So, just a bit of devil's advocate, RC or SC may have just cleaned the day before? Though even if that were true, they would have had to do this someday Friday and without having to touch anything in the mean time. Now that I'm trying to understand the lack of prints while responding to your post, I am having a difficult time explaining possibilities of the lack of prints.

Though at the same time, if it was a stranger who might have done this before, that person might have known how to prevent such prints? IDK, this case has me soooo confused and frustrated!

Did the docs say no prints whatsoever? Or no usable prints? Or no prints not associated with the family? Many times when they dust for prints, they don't find anything that is clear, they're all smudged or they find just a partial print. But if the docs state no prints at all... I'm assuming they mean none that are useful to them.

 

[TxLady2]

I thought there was something off in that part of the video too but couldn't put my finger on it. For some reason to me, I got the impression from Becky that hearing Sergio say Isa was close with the aunt (I think it was) made her defensive. I started wondering if Sergio was the primary caretaker and closer to the children than Becky. Or he was more of the touchy feely nurturer than she was.

Does anyone know where employees park at TMC and if there are video cameras there? Can anyone confirm seeing her car parked there that morning? I know she went to work but it would be so easy to put a sleeping Isa in the car and have someone meet her to pick her up. Not sure what I think at this point.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

For what purpose? Do you mean to hand her off to someone? Any ideas who that might be?
I guess I'm just not following the line of thought here. What reason would they have to sell or give her to somebody? She was by all accounts well loved and cared for. The parents just don't seem to be that desperate for money, both of them work in well paid jobs.
And if it was some kind of elaborate hoax to garner donations, which I highly doubt, I think LE would have figured that out by now. Besides... how many cases do we know of where parents got tons of money donated and were eventually prosecuted for it? I know many have been accused of it, but I don't know of any that have been proven. But then, I rarely think of that as a viable theory in most missing kids cases.
Just saying.

 

[Lark2]

Wow, just went to go quote tha last post and it's gone!

Whoever the poster was had Sergio's quote from his interview in which he states,

(edited for correct statement as provided by Eileen)

"We cannot tell you the gratitude and the level of prayer our little girl has brought to this world. With the exception of 9 11, I cannot remember a worldwide chain of prayer that has been so significant."

Uhmmmm, what?? Not even close. Maybe this is a hoax and they had hoped it would be a huge media event.

Problem is, they were not believed right off the bat by LE.

 

[Lark2]

For what purpose? Do you mean to hand her off to someone? Any ideas who that might be? I guess I'm just not following the line of thought here. What reason would they have to sell or give her to somebody?

I dunno, the idea that a family could stage an abduction for financial gain isn't new, and it isn't unique. Dumb, maybe, but not unheard of.

Also, I've seen it written that LE would be on to such a hoax by now. Well, maybe they are, and they're in waiting mode. LE were certainly onto the Balloon Boy hoax early on but had to wait until someone cracked. Turns out it was the youngest member of the family who spilled the beans.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Wow, just went to go quote tha last post and it's gone!

Whoever the poster was had Sergio's quote from his interview in which he states,

"This is big. The biggest thing that's happened since 911" or words to that effect.

Uhmmmm, what?? Not even close. Maybe this is a hoax and they had hoped it would be a huge media event.

Problem is, they were not believed right off the bat by LE.

I did some searching and the exact quote was: "We cannot tell you the gratitude and the level of prayer our little girl has brought to this world. With the exception of 9 11, I cannot remember a worldwide chain of prayer that has been so significant."

Now...does Sergio truly believe that? Or is he referencing 9/11 because he wants people to think that?

 

[mck16]

I dunno, the idea that a family could stage an abduction for financial gain isn't new, and it isn't unique. Dumb, maybe, but not unheard of.Also, I've seen it written that LE would be on to such a hoax by now. Well, maybe they are, and they're in waiting mode. LE were certainly onto the Balloon Boy hoax early on but had to wait until someone cracked. Turns out it was the youngest member of the family who spilled the beans.

I am not familiar with this. Can you enlighten me? I would like to review some of those hoax cases to see if there are any similarities in behaviour, etc. tia

 

[Lark2]

I find it interesting that the parents' statements to the first officer on the scene are completely redacted in the document dump.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/link/563528/pdf-celis-2-forensics-collected-items-taken-from-home

Page 69.

 

[Lark2]

I am not familiar with this. Can you enlighten me? I would like to review some of those hoax cases to see if there are any similarities in behaviour, etc. tia

Do a search on this thread for hoax, etc., there was significant discussion in past threads and examples of recent cases.

 

[Lark2]

Everyone gets to decide for themselves what the purpose of WS is to them. I tend not to speculate because I'm only interested in the facts and getting the real story...whenever that comes out....which is usually at trial.

If it's helpful to believe that law enforcement will change their tactic and spill inside case details, then go for it! I've not seen it happen in cases I've followed, and I have no expectation of it happening in this case, but maybe LE will surprise me.

If there's some specific way to help LE find Isa beyond the searches, beyond passing out flyers, beyond candlelight vigils, then I look forward to hearing what LE is requesting. So far I haven't seen anything from them.

Madeline, you seem to be a Joe Friday, just the facts, science kind-of girl. What do you think of the FBI's Behaviour Analysis Unit, and other areas of LE that don't rely on traditional "hard evidence" or "facts" but more on nuance, psychology, etc.