AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #22

[BetteDavisEyes]

Can LE arrest you for violating a voluntary safety plan saying no contact? I thought that they are mainly enforced by CPS threatening to take you to court and get a court order if you don't comply.

That's the part that is so confusing. If it's voluntary, than would LE be tailing SC as suggested by pieper4 above? How about CPS making regular visits to wherever Becky is staying with the boys? To me, voluntary suggests a certain degree of trust between the parents, CPS, and LE so that surveillance and constant supervision isn't necessary.

As I said in an earlier post, I hope there is a da*n good reason for the no-contact agreement because this situation must be causing significant stress to a family who already find themselves in unimaginable circumstances. :moo:

 

[GutFeeling!]

How is this monitored? How would anyone know for certain that Sergio has no contact with his sons? Does someone from CPS visit the boys daily to make sure that they haven't seen and/or spoken to their dad? I have no experience with CPS, nor do I know anyone who has dealt with them, so I have no clue as to how something like this is orchestrated. TIA.

I was told by CPS what I had to do, that was if she showed up call the police and CPS, I had paperwork to explain the situation to the police. Now, here's the thing ... rightfully no one could stop her from taking the child because she legally had custody of him.

IF my son had not taken his son immediately though, he would have been taken as a ward of the state and placed in foster care. (If my son didn't do what he did you'd be reading about me kicking his butt to the curb lol)

Now, she did continuously come around with the police, the police could do nothing but call the caseworker.
In our case CPS would call my son and I to make sure we were all right - her continuous allegations and turn ups at the door worked against her, proved to CPS that she was out of control basically.

She had no previous charges against her - clean as a whistle ... nothing. That was the first time CPS was ever called (even my son would say she was a good mother and they were not together) - just the world of drugs and in this case CPS were right

 

[GutFeeling!]

Can LE arrest you for violating a voluntary safety plan saying no contact? I thought that they are mainly enforced by CPS threatening to take you to court and get a court order if you don't comply.

In short no they can't, not on a voluntary.

Once again (my case only) when the police came here with her (she had told them I may hurt her - when in reality she wasn't allowed near the child) CPS told me to tell the police she was not welcome on to my property.

This would mean she would have to leave - then if she didn't or was rude or nasty - the police can step in and get her for trespassing - but only after she had been advised by them to get off the property.

Because she made a habit of it CPS recommended another thirty days and a restraining order

 

[GutFeeling!]

Wait wait wait

If mum, dad and CPS agree you can have visitation under supervision, either the police station or the CPS office was offered. My son said no (he had no idea about the drugs)

I had forgotten about that - I do apologize. In my case there was just police at my door, I was basically useless (just the carer)

 

[GutFeeling!]

That's the part that is so confusing. If it's voluntary, than would LE be tailing SC as suggested by pieper4 above? How about CPS making regular visits to wherever Becky is staying with the boys? To me, voluntary suggests a certain degree of trust between the parents, CPS, and LE so that surveillance and constant supervision isn't necessary.

As I said in an earlier post, I hope there is a da*n good reason for the no-contact agreement because this situation must be causing significant stress to a family who already find themselves in unimaginable circumstances. :moo:

Initially, CPS didn't take sides (for lack of a better word) with either parent. Mum had a problem, had signed the voluntary, dad was taking the child. They did moniter her progress, but certainly didn't start making any kind of decision until it got nasty. (Kicker was when she attacked me at the hospital when the little guy was going for a checkup)

Second BBM - I totally agree!

 

[Donjeta]

That's the part that is so confusing. If it's voluntary, than would LE be tailing SC as suggested by pieper4 above? How about CPS making regular visits to wherever Becky is staying with the boys? To me, voluntary suggests a certain degree of trust between the parents, CPS, and LE so that surveillance and constant supervision isn't necessary.

As I said in an earlier post, I hope there is a da*n good reason for the no-contact agreement because this situation must be causing significant stress to a family who already find themselves in unimaginable circumstances. :moo:

I've never heard of LE tailing people because they've agreed to do or to not do something with CPS. If there is surveillance it's because of the criminal investigation into Isabel's disappearance imo.

 

[pieper4]

I've never heard of LE tailing people because they've agreed to do or to not do something with CPS. If there is surveillance it's because of the criminal investigation into Isabel's disappearance imo.

Agreed.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I'm sorry I haven't had time to catch up today, but I will try to post this link. Since I haven't been here very long, I'm still unsure which websites can be used and which are unacceptable here. This link doesn't come up ***********, so hopefully it's OK.

A financially motivated hoax has seemed reasonable to me since I first heard the lack of urgency or fear in Sergio and Becky's voices (especially after researching financials at the Recorder's office).

In trying to catch up, I noticed several early comments about a hoax. Some still seem to believe that this could be a possibility.

I don't know if any of you have listened to the internet radio interview with Sergio and Becky from early May. It's on blogtalkradio, so I'm not sure if it's
allowed on Websleuths. The SC/BC interview portion starts at 73:00 minutes. It's a very long program which includes almost an hour on the Bring Isa Home song creation and promotion (after the Celis interview).

IMO this interview supports concern about the family's focus on fundraising. The family interview is fairly confusing but talks primarily about donations.

Sergio spends time talking about all the worldwide attention, his daughter's face on billboards, how well the purple bracelets are doing, etc. Becky talks about how to donate nationwide through Wells Fargo and online at the BringIsaHome and the TMC websites. She also mentions an election coming up and says she hopes politicians will get involved (I'm not sure what she means by that).

I still don't hear concern about their daughter. IMO they sound relaxed. They don't really give the impression of being very "private" people. I don't know, maybe they were more comfortable doing a phone interview than TV. This was taped right after the Today show appearance.

Maybe I missed it, but I've tried to search back and haven't found this interview linked here. I just noticed it a few days ago at another blog. It definitely gives another glimpse into the way SC and BC think, and the importance of fundraising. It does show that Sergio's focus on worldwide attention (previous mention of 9/11) was not just an isolated slip of the tongue on the Today Show.

Even if it was mentioned here three weeks ago, it might still be good to revisit the interview now (after the CPS involvement, 911 tape release, and doc dump). I think many people noticed different aspects of the Today show interview, when we re-watched it recently.

The radio show is called "Solutions Now" and is apparently hosted by Denise Newton and Skyler Jett. I don't guess this is really MSM, but these are SC's and BC's words. We have heard so little from them that any additional insight seems important. I assume that LE found the interview interesting. If this link isn't acceptable you can still Google and find the interview.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/soluti...8/judge-judys-bailiff-meet-petri-hawkins-byrd

One other quick point:

After listening to the interview, I called the TMC donation site to try to find out more about the Isa fund. I asked if their Isa fund is tax deductible, if they give receipts for tax purposes, and if they are affilliated with BringIsaHome.

It may depend on who you talk to, but this person seemed to say that they don't consider the fund to be tax deductible. She said it's up to the individual whether they try to deduct, but TMC doesn't give tax receipts.

She said they established the fund to help out, because Isa's mom works there, and the donations go into a fund for the family.

She did say that they were not affiliated with BringIsaHome.

This is not what I expected. I thought we assumed that BringIsaHome was getting a tax deductible status from TMC. But I haven't been able to find it stated anywhere that BringIsaHome donations are tax deductible and now I don't know about the TMC fund. Has anyone else found actual documentation of tax deductible status for the donations?

I ended up confused, but I didn't want to call back and ask TMC to repeat their answers. Maybe others can call TMC and see if they get different information.

I just saw another comment about donations going to increase the available reward. IMO the TMC fund and the BringIsaHome fund are supposed to be for the family and to help in their search. The actual reward is through donations to 88-crime which is completely separate and controlled by Pima County.

I went to the link, but was unable to skip to the Celis part. I was using Mozilla Firefox, in case that's relevant. Is there a way to skip, or do I just have to let it run through the blah blah about Judge Judy, music, etc.?

 

[Anita Richman]

Who is 'they'? KGUN? Are you saying KGUN reported this morning, that LE previously went to the Celis home because of graffiti?

ETA: You previously mentioned per reports release by TPD. Did KGUN say it was per reports release by TPD or did someone see reports by TPD? Just trying to clarify. TIA!

I'm sorry I wasn't clear! Yes, KGUN. Both anchors (last night and then again this morning) held what appeared to be copies of the police reports while they reported this. Yes, they (the anchors) said that the reports were released by police, about prior contact that TPD had at the Celis home. (Only one report of contact with them was serious enough for a detailed report and that was the graffiti report.)

Another contact was after Isa went missing, about a suspicious vehicle, but TPD investigated and found it was nothing.

 

[liz b.]

Can LE arrest you for violating a voluntary safety plan saying no contact? I thought that they are mainly enforced by CPS threatening to take you to court and get a court order if you don't comply.

I doubt if was really all that voluntary to begin with. MOO IIRC, RC did say that she was "outraged" by the NCO...? Does not sound like a voluntary arrangement ? MOO

No, CPS cannot arrest anyone. But, they can go into court, and ensure complaince.

JMO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I've never heard of LE tailing people because they've agreed to do or to not do something with CPS. If there is surveillance it's because of the criminal investigation into Isabel's disappearance imo.

Okedoke. Back to square one. How does CPS know whether or not SC has had no contact with his sons since the voluntary agreement took effect?

 

[winterrose]

I went to the link, but was unable to skip to the Celis part. I was using Mozilla Firefox, in case that's relevant. Is there a way to skip, or do I just have to let it run through the blah blah about Judge Judy, music, etc.?

Look to the left at the minutes and it's 73 approx.

 

[azmary]

Okedoke. Back to square one. How does CPS know whether or not SC has had no contact with his sons since the voluntary agreement took effect?

I think it is called a safety plan and it is an agreement between parents and cps. Cps should do home visits and checks.
And I would suspect if anyone called cps and reported SC was visiting that might change into a court order.
Comes to down to trust I guess.
And I don't think that it is the TPD investigation they are waiting to end. I think CPS is doing their own investigation at this time. Perhaps when it concludes and conditions are met they can be reunited.

 

[winterrose]

I'm sorry I wasn't clear! Yes, KGUN. Both anchors (last night and then again this morning) held what appeared to be copies of the police reports while they reported this. Yes, they (the anchors) said that the reports were released by police, about prior contact that TPD had at the Celis home. (Only one report of contact with them was serious enough for a detailed report and that was the graffiti report.)

Another contact was after Isa went missing, about a suspicious vehicle, but TPD investigated and found it was nothing.

But that's not the December CPS visit, just police report on graffiti, right?

 

[pieper4]

Okedoke. Back to square one. How does CPS know whether or not SC has had no contact with his sons since the voluntary agreement took effect?

I would think LE would be happy to inform CPS if they picked up a violation of the terms of the "agreement" during any surveillance.

CPS may also be doing home visits or other legwork. For all we know, RC and the boys are in Douglas with family. So many questions...

 

[liz b.]

Okedoke. Back to square one. How does CPS know whether or not SC has had no contact with his sons since the voluntary agreement took effect?

CPS must go and visit every client they have an open case on. So, I'm guessing that they may have visited RC and the children. Also, any therapists the children might be visiting would be mandatory reporters to CPS. Perhaps the NCO might come up in any hypothetical therapy session.

It's very puzzling,really.... JMO

 

[A_News_Junkie]

I went to the link, but was unable to skip to the Celis part. I was using Mozilla Firefox, in case that's relevant. Is there a way to skip, or do I just have to let it run through the blah blah about Judge Judy, music, etc.?

Put your mouse on the bar (arrow) and click to skip ahead to 73 (circle) to start the interview on Isabel.

 

[mck16]

This may be old information, but have either of the Cellis's gone back to work? And is RC and the boys living in the home? Where is SC living? tia

 

[Anita Richman]

But that's not the December CPS visit, just police report on graffiti, right?

Correct. It was a report regarding "previous police visits to the Celis home". I will DVR the 5 p.m. news (and if there are any locals online, please watch too. I'd like to have this corroborated) and report back.

 

[Anita Richman]

This may be old information, but have either of the Cellis's gone back to work? And is RC and the boys living in the home? Where is SC living? tia

I haven't heard, but would like to know, as well.