AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #22

[Mjskit]

Okedoke. Back to square one. How does CPS know whether or not SC has had no contact with his sons since the voluntary agreement took effect?

The only way for Cps to know is if someone tells them. They do not watch every move parents make. SC could be having contact in another family members home, maybe by phone, and as long as everyone keeps quite about it CPS may never know.

 

[azmary]

The only way for Cps to know is if someone tells them. They do not watch every move parents make. SC could be having contact in another family members home, maybe by phone, and as long as everyone keeps quite about it CPS may never know.

Can TPD tap their phone lines? I just don't know how much le can do to try and solve a crime.

 

[Mjskit]

CPS must go and visit every client they have an open case on. So, I'm guessing that they may have visited RC and the children. Also, any therapists the children might be visiting would be mandatory reporters to CPS. Perhaps the NCO might come up in any hypothetical therapy session.

It's very puzzling,really.... JMO

The NCO is voluntary so there is no open case. It could become an open case if the NCO is not followed though. IMO

 

[obody]

Okedoke. Back to square one. How does CPS know whether or not SC has had no contact with his sons since the voluntary agreement took effect?

On this point they are trusting whoever does have custody of the kids. I would imagine compliance is relatively high in those situations though; given that not holding to the voluntary agreement could have CPS escalating the case.

 

[liz b.]

The NCO is voluntary so there is no open case. It could become an open case if the NCO is not followed though. IMO

Respectfully, CPS did visit this family in December. And so there could well already be an open case, prior to the NCO ? We simply do not know. I personally do believe that the family has a current open case with CPS. But,of course, no one knows for sure except the family. And,IMO, that is as it should be...these matters should be strictly confidential The goal of any CPS is to protect children, and help families overcome parenting challenges....but,that's just MOO, FWIW...

 

[liz b.]

The only way for Cps to know is if someone tells them. They do not watch every move parents make. SC could be having contact in another family members home, maybe by phone, and as long as everyone keeps quite about it CPS may never know.

If it is true that LE found something in the course of their investigation, which made them concerned for the safety of the two remaining children, and CPS agreed, it would be a real shame that SC could not comply. JMO

 

[liz b.]

Come to think of it, CPS would have likely become involved with this family when RC had the DUI charge back in 2003. Since she had a child in the car with her at the time...So, CPS likely knows the family...JMO

 

[Mjskit]

Respectfully, CPS did visit this family in December. And so there could well already be an open case, prior to the NCO ? We simply do not know. I personally do believe that the family has a current open case with CPS. But,of course, no one knows for sure except the family. And,IMO, that is as it should be...these matters should be strictly confidential The goal of any CPS is to protect children, and help families overcome parenting challenges....but,that's just MOO, FWIW...

Yes there could have already been an open case from December. Since the records are sealed the public will not know unless the family wants us to know. However, open cases require court appearances (usually every 3 months) and if the reporters are watching the courthouse they would know if SC and RC have appeared in court. Therefore, I do not believe, IMO, that there is an open CPS case at this time.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Four things are on my mind tonight, and if i didn't get it out, I wouldn't be able to sleep again tonight.
I know that most if not all of us come to these sites because we genuinely care about the missing, and would do anything in our power to reuinite the missing with those that love them.

<modsnip>

I'm really not accusing anyone or trying to cause trouble, I am just sad that Isabel still hasn't been found. It has been too long.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Can TPD tap their phone lines? I just don't know how much le can do to try and solve a crime.

With a warrant, which wouldn't be hard for them to get.

 

[FrayedKnot]

When police visited the Celis home before her disappearance, it was over graffiti in the neighborhood. According to reports released by TPD and reported on KGUN.

Wow! When was this reported? These were the "minor" incidents in December? Do you have a link to the report? Finally! Some answers.

 

[bessie]

Four things are on my mind tonight, and if i didn't get it out, I wouldn't be able to sleep again tonight.
I know that most if not all of us come to these sites because we genuinely care about the missing, and would do anything in our power to reuinite the missing with those that love them.
<modsnip>

sing anyone or trying to cause trouble, I am just sad that Isabel still hasn't been found. It has been too long.

This kind of speculation really needs to be linked up.

 

[Ransom]

This kind of speculation really needs to be linked up.

AMEN.

JUST like posts about a NCO. THERE is no ORDER, as in No Contact ORDER = court/law/legal. SC did this voluntarily with no ORDER.

 

[bessie]

If the site can't be linked, it's content is off limits.

 

[pieper4]

Wow! When was this reported? These were the "minor" incidents in December? Do you have a link to the report? Finally! Some answers.

I can't find the video on this, but Anita mentioned upthread that KGUN stated as much last night as well as this morning on their broadcast. Wonder if that means a new set of docs is forthcoming, or if these were independent FOIA documents?

 

[liz b.]

AMEN.

JUST like posts about a NCO. THERE is no ORDER, as in No Contact ORDER = court/law/legal. SC did this voluntarily with no ORDER.

Voluntary only in the sense that CPS did not have to go into court...MOO

If it was completely voluntary, I do not think RC would state that she was "outraged " about the No Contact order ? MOO

It is not an "order" in the legal sense...NCO is just CPS language here... MOO

It is,however, a very serious matter. MOO

This NCO began with LE finding something in the course of their investigation into the disappearance of Isabel. What they found made them very concerned for the safety of the two remaining Celis children. They contacted CPS. This is what led to SC not being allowed any contact with the two other children. Very little about this was voluntary...MOO At that point,SC's options were quite limited.MOO Just some thoughts and MOO

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Sorry, Bessie I didn't mean to cause you any trouble. And Lawdy Ransom, what I posted were the facts as i have seen them. They were my opinions and I have a file full of links. I also thought the sites wouldn't be allowed to be linked here. THAT doesn't make it rumors.

 

[Prof]

Voluntary only in the sense that CPS did not have to go into court...MOO

If it was completely voluntary, I do not think RC would state that she was "outraged " about the No Contact order ? MOO

It is not an "order" in the legal sense...NCO is just CPS language here... MOO

It is,however, a very serious matter. MOO

As far as I remember, a "friend" JV, who has never been to the Celis' home, used the word "outraged" on NG. Here's the clip...
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/05/15/family-friend-defends-isabel-celis-dad

Where did RC state she was outraged?
TIA

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

The NCO is voluntary so there is no open case. It could become an open case if the NCO is not followed though. IMO

When a Social Worker is given a case by a facilitator or in many cases a mandatory reporter, they will then meet with the child, and then the family. The SW is responsible for preparing both an assessment of the child (children) and a case plan. I am not sure how long the case would remain open, but I am sure that the Social Worker is responsible for making visits to the home.

 

[Ransom]

Voluntary only in the sense that CPS did not have to go into court...MOO

If it was completely voluntary, I do not think RC would state that she was "outraged " about the No Contact order ? MOO

It is not an "order" in the legal sense...NCO is just CPS language here... MOO

It is,however, a very serious matter. MOO

This NCO began with LE finding something in the course of their investigation into the disappearance of Isabel. What they found made them very concerned for the safety of the two remaining Celis children. They contacted CPS. This is what led to SC not being allowed any contact with the two other children. Very little about this was voluntary...MOO At that point,SC's options were quite limited.MOO Just some thoughts and MOO

BBM ... What? When? I never heard/nor read this.

I didn't say it wasn't serious. I said it was NOT an "order". SC does have options. I won't go into that since I do NOT know why he voluntarily gave up his rights. I never speculate about things like that as a retired CPS worker in NM ...not AZ.

CPS in AZ never, ever said it was a NCO. Laypersons HERE have said it was an NCO.

2nd BBM: When did LE say they contacted CPS? CPS always gets involved in missing children's cases IF other minor children reside in the home. That is SOP for any CPS. CPS has been involved the moment Isa went missing. IMHO.