AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #23

[eileenhawkeye]

I truly cannot believe this information has not been leaked. I would think that there are investigator/reporters who are trying to get that information. I don't know maybe they think/know the reason isn't important or minor and not a show stopper. jmo

I think in 98% of cases the media just relies on press conferences, news releases, interviews with the parents, and released documents. Unfortunately, unless the state has very relaxed laws about releasing documents (Sunshine Law) or the parents are extremely proactive in the media, it's inevitable that the case will fade away after a month or two.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Initiated yes .... but LE have no say in voluntary no contact requests.

I wonder if there any available stats on CPS involvement stemming from a LE initiated report?

Probably not, but I'd really like to know how common it is, and what the criteria would have to be to justify such a thing?

Off to see what I can find.......

 

[GutFeeling!]

I wonder if there any available stats on CPS involvement stemming from a LE initiated report?

Probably not, but I'd really like to know how common it is, and what the criteria would have to be to justify such a thing?

Off to see what I can find.......

From my experience, when I go to something that has a child involved my first question is Has CPS been called - always makes me feel a little silly because it makes perfect sense they would be and the answer is usually yes.

Police look after the criminal aspect - CPS the child/children afterwards.

Th voluntary things though usually have stipulations that the parent must followed - things like drug rehab, anger management, parenting classes - they have to prove they are willing to mend for the benefit of the children. Police have nothing to actually do with them though.

In my case it was drugs, parent was taken to hospital for evaluation, admitted drugs, police called CPS. CPS then took charge of what was best for my grandson, mother signed 30 days away from child and had to do rehab and test clean randomly. Police took charge of the criminal side of things, had nothing to do with my grandson at all after calling CPS.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I didn't find any stats on how common it is for LE to initiate CPS involvement, but I did find this old article and I had actually forgotten that CPS was no stranger at the Celis home....

http://m.tucsonnewsnow.com/autojuic...ce-cps-had-previous-contact-with-celis-family

Since Isa was not missing in December of 2011, it really didn't matter then that it is commonplace for CPS to become involved in missing children's cases.

This has me wondering all over AGAIN what in blue blazes is going on with that family?

If CPS had become involved with this family ONLY after Isa went missing, I'd be more likely to buy into there being a more benign reason for stepping in and "suggesting" a separation.

But this ain't the Celis' first time at the rodeo.

 

[FrayedKnot]

From my experience, when I go to something that has a child involved my first question is Has CPS been called - always makes me feel a little silly because it makes perfect sense they would be and the answer is usually yes.

Police look after the criminal aspect - CPS the child/children afterwards.

Th voluntary things though usually have stipulations that the parent must followed - things like drug rehab, anger management, parenting classes - they have to prove they are willing to mend for the benefit of the children. Police have nothing to actually do with them though.

In my case it was drugs, parent was taken to hospital for evaluation, admitted drugs, police called CPS. CPS then took charge of what was best for my grandson, mother signed 30 days away from child and had to do rehab and test clean randomly. Police took charge of the criminal side of things, had nothing to do with my grandson at all after calling CPS.

You have had personal experience with CPS, so may I ask you, in your opinion, just opinion, would LE have contacted CPS over something like Sergio seeming overwhelmed or depressed?

And if that HAD been the reason for the initial call to CPS, would CPS "suggest" the separation of Sergio from the boys for reasons such as those, or would they have thanked LE for their concern, and left the family intact?

I know every case is different, but it just really doesn't seem likely that Sergio would have been separated from those boys if there weren't something more serious at play, here?

So what's yer gut, Gut?

 

[liz b.]

I didn't find any stats on how common it is for LE to initiate CPS involvement, but I did find this old article and I had actually forgotten that CPS was no stranger at the Celis home....

http://m.tucsonnewsnow.com/autojuic...ce-cps-had-previous-contact-with-celis-family

Since Isa was not missing in December of 2011, it really didn't matter then that it is commonplace for CPS to become involved in missing children's cases.

This has me wondering all over AGAIN what in blue blazes is going on with that family?

If CPS had become involved with this family ONLY after Isa went missing, I'd be more likely to buy into there being a more benign reason for stepping in and "suggesting" a separation.

But this ain't the Celis' first time at the rodeo.

In my experience CPS is rarely in the "suggesting " business LOL... JMO

 

[FrayedKnot]

In my experience CPS is rarely in the "suggesting " business LOL... JMO

LOL back atcha.

Trying to be diplomatic since it has been reported that the separation was voluntary and I'm pretty sure it wasn't Sergio's idea.....

 

[SapphireSteel]

It is standard procedure for CPS to be involved with the family, after a child is missing or abducted.

What is NOT standard, is a "no contact" agreement between a parent and an already traumatised family.

The "voluntary" part is deceptive. It is voluntary because the alternative is CPS go to court to obtain a no conact order.

If CPS go to court, all the ugly details come out as to why SC is considered a threat to his boys. His "voluntary" co-operation was probably advised by his lawyer, to prevent this. It is self serving in nature.

Please remember this no-contact order bans all contact, including phone calls. Even murderers in prison have the right to see and speak to their children.

 

[marazul]

Hi, Everyone. I'm still here and catching up every few days.. Nothing significant to add. I do appreciate the ongoing conversation, and hope there is progress soon. My daughter asked me, after I told her there were no developments in this case, " how can kids just disappear like that?" so sad.

 

[Aura]

For those that dont really know me, Im a local.

Nothing is really going on that I have heard lately. I think its sad, and this will become a cold case. But I have hopes, it was about a year before they found Vicky Lynn's body.

Anyways, I have also had a personal experience with CPS. Anyways, I didnt know they had wanted to talk to me, and it was about a year after a report was sent before they made contact with me. I was told the reason was, they had contacted my son's teachers, and doctors, and learned that there had never been any problems, and he was taken care of really good. They had talked to my sons DDD case worker, and when she came out to the house for a visit, she told me about it. So I contacted them to find out what was going on. It turned out to be a bogus report, and my case was closed with in a month of me contacting them. It was most likely an ex to my now hubby that had been causing alot of problems at that time. Thank god. It scared the crap out of me.

But anyways, from my experience, they would not have him be away from the boys because of depression unless it was a danger to the boys. If he was being abusive or yelling at the boys and causing problems like that. This is what i keep thinking... Why in the heck would they say to this father, 'ok so you just had your daughter kidnapped, so we are gonna take away your boys too.' I mean it has to be something BIG for that to take place. That is the only thing that is keeping me suspicious of SC. I had posted before, anything I ever heard about SC was that he was a very loving and caring father. There was no way he could do this. And the person saying it has been in close contact with him for at least 8 years. But as soon as the CPS thing came out, and I know it was voluntary for SC to stay away, but CPS told him too. Or they could take it to court, and make him (which is what im guessing they would do if he said he wouldnt do what they wanted.) So that is what scares me the most about this.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Been reading up a bit on the Ramseys again and I am starting to get the sick feeling that like JonBenet, Kyron, Haleigh, Haley, Ayla, Lisa.......beautiful Isabel Mercedes will always be a mystery and her killers will never be punished.

I wish I had more hope.

 

[Madeleine74]

JonBenet's (most likely) killer died of ovarian cancer and police will never reopen the case to go after her father. I guess one could say Patsy was punished in that she only lived another 10 years or so and died relatively young.

 

[time]

The perp was confronted by the six year old's older sister.

Makes you wonder, how did he know the girls were there. I usually suspect the perp has done some homework and surveillance, or knows about the family somehow. But I guess many of them of opportunistic. They hang out for a short while or commit the crime shortly after they see a child they could target.

At any rate, I'm back to wondering what kind of profile the FBI came up with (guessing that they did for Isa's abduction anyway).

 

[Madeleine74]

I'd put $100 down on a bet that the FBI believes the culprit is in the family, and specifically the nuclear family.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

I'd put $100 down on a bet that the FBI believes the culprit is in the family, and specifically the nuclear family.

Theory only----

I have never seen a case like this. Remember the police took the family BACK into the home, one by one to question them? Maybe LE and CS think that the boys were being "coached" by a certain someone. And that if they gave them time and space-someones story would change?

just a thought...

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Been reading up a bit on the Ramseys again and I am starting to get the sick feeling that like JonBenet, Kyron, Haleigh, Haley, Ayla, Lisa.......beautiful Isabel Mercedes will always be a mystery and her killers will never be punished.

I wish I had more hope.

I hope you are wrong!! But I understand your feelings...

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Below are the last time each national media channel had something on the case:

CBS: May 22
MSNBC: May 15 (It's hard to search their website...so that date might not be accurate)
FOX: May 29
ABC: May 25
CNN/HLN: May 28

And local media...

Arizona Daily Star: June 8
Tucson News Now: June 6
News 4 Tucson: May 31
KGUN9: June 9

Tucson News Now, News 4, and KGUN9 all have a picture of Isabel on their front page, with a link to their "full coverage" of the case.

I believe since Caylee's case, that monsters have takent pretty good notes.And parents KNOW that if they don't participate, search, do interviews...and just keep their mouths SHUT-that soon the press will move on.

Aliayah Lunsfords case is just a perfect example. Heartbreaking-but true.

 

[Madeleine74]

It's more important that Isa's case stay in the local and neighboring state's news in case someone remembers something or knows something. It's not really a national case in that kids go missing a lot and there's nothing new to report. If an arrest is made then national news will pick it up and report it.

 

[Dr. Know?]

TYVM EHE for the dates. I added the headlines I found.

Arizona Daily Star: June 8 Car wash for missing Tucson girl set for Saturday

Tucson News Now: June 6 Complete Celis documents/Documents detail initial conversations between Celis parents and TPD

News 4 Tucson: May 31 $60,500 reward now offered for information

KGUN9: June 9 Day 50: Volunteers hold on to hope, raise money for Isabel with car wash

Last the parents were heard from May 19th Isabel Celis: Mom Attends Vigil, Defends Husband

Last I know of RC & SC being seen was May 24th Isabel's parents help move volunteer command post
"The Celis' would not speak on camera today."

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18616989/isabels-parents-help-move-volunteer-command-post

Today is June 18th...tomorrow will be one month since we've heard a peep from the parents.

Last week I posted a link to Kristi Tedesco's (reporter) facebook. She mentioned she saw the Chief last Monday & he told her they were actively working on the case & KT said the chief was still being very tight lipped.

I think I'm going to take a break unti it breaks wide open or have something of interest to post. It's not giving up hoping Isa is found soon by any means. There's just no news & the parents aren't keeping Isa's name out there.

Later gators!

 

[SmoothOperator]

They do have DNA. They took the guy in the surveillance at the Circle K's DNA and fingerprints to send out for testing.

I brought up the dogs because it was another case where the dogs did not seem to make a difference to the perp.

Yeah, I don't think that AS heard the perp, and there are things that she has said and done that don't exactly make her a credible witness...sorry JMO.

Yeah, it is really difficult to be convinced in any way of any theory, since we have very little in the way of facts.

Nonfamily Abducted Children: National Estimates and Characteristics
<respectfully snipped for space by me>
I guess the attack on the three other young girls ten miles away in their own home actually becomes more important because of it's rarity if committed by a complete stranger in their home also and since it was fairly close in time to Isabel's disappearance. Going against that is that none of the girls were abducted - although I think the guy was interrupted wasn't he?

I'm not sure what to research to find out the stats on how many kids are molested by a stranger in their own home (due to home invasion).

The perp was confronted by the six year old's older sister.

I'm glad to see this brought up for discussion as regardless of whether or not directly related to Isa's abduction.. IMO it definitely has purpose for being a topic of discussion due to age of victims, geographical location, and eerily close in time when the attacks occurred in relation to Isa's case..
Such a serious case of such an extremely brazen perp that entered into a residence with not only the homeowners present but with multiple house guests, including 3 elementary aged female children.. and actually sexually assaulted atleast 1 of those 3 children for certain(and quite possibly even more) ..yet managed to escape and most importantly has thus far managed to evade arrest ...

This sexual assault within mere hours of Isa's abduction.. this perpatrater is without a doubt a stranger, unknown to the family.. that managed to enter the home and sexually assault atleast one young girl, possibly more, as well as this unknown, stranger pedophile managed to successfully leave back out of the residence he broke into..

ALL UNBEKNOWNST TO THE ATLEAST THREE ADULTS THAT WERE FOR A FACT PRESENT IN THE HOME WHEN THE BREAK IN, ASSAULTS, AND ESCAPE FROM THE SCENE WERE ALL SUCCESSFULLY DONE WITHOUT ANY OF THEM AWAKENING OR CATCHING THE ASSAILANT DOING SO..

AND HE REMAINS AT LARGE!

Forget about the Jessica Lunsford/John Couey, Danielle VanDamm /David Westerfield examples that we all know prove that it not only can, but VERY MUCH DOES HAPPEN.. it happened right here within hours and mere miles of Isa's home and abduction.. IMO ITS VERY MUCH STILL A VIABLE, VERY POSSIBLE OPTION STILL ON THE TABLE!