AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #23

[SapphireSteel]

I'd put $100 down on a bet that the FBI believes the culprit is in the family, and specifically the nuclear family.

I'd bet the house.

 

[time]

OMG Time, I know very well the efforts and time you put in... I did not in any way mean to slight that...
I have in earlier threads try to find and posts the stats in this area, and I had trouble finding any recent data...
I thank you for providing that report. I was also confident that Ocean already considered the age of the report. I should have been clearer. I was simply STO...for the record, as I had not seen it qualified.
I apologize for not being clearer.

No, no! It's fine. I wasn't jabbing at you but Ocean... I knew she was going to say she didn't like the statistics! (sorry, Ocean, but you are easy to figure out on that one and I did say if you don't like statistics pass on by :floorlaugh

 

[Madeleine74]

LE doesn't announce when they've excluded someone (except if they've cleared the immediate family, then they do, sometimes).

They investigate, they ask for DNA for comparison, they question, they check out alibis and then they move on. They don't discuss the details with the public. When they have a suspect and they've gathered enough evidence, they make an arrest. And then we know exactly who was never excluded.

 

[WhatsupAZ]

It just blows my mind that some posters actually believe that the no contact agreement could be innocently explained away... "it is voluntary..blah blah". Sorry, but I just have to say it. How can you possibly think that there isn't something serious going on involving SC. The only possible way that I can think to explain it away is a. Precautionary measures in light of the man who recently blew up his house with his two little boys tragedy (josh powell) Or b. SC has been framed.

What I am trying to say is there is NO WAY that the cps involvement is not a huge deal.

 

[pieper4]

The guy in the Circle K video is actually a High School student at a local private parachoial school. Poor kid just happened to be wearing a green tank top with shorts.

Thanks. I ran into the kid's mom eating lunch late one afternoon at Pei Wei... or at least sat next to her and two friends and overheard a long discussion about that footage and her son. There was nothing more to that video tape.

 

[pieper4]

Thank you for this info.. IMO the PCSO should have made this announcement.. i mean I get why they publicly airedthis poor young man's image on the video.. but still they never cleared him.. last heard was chief Nanos on NG stating that the father called in and identified the boy as his son.. the chief said they'd interviewed the guy and that they'd taken a buccal swab that was sent off for comparison to the DNA they had from the perp...then nothing further but silence.. atleast to us nationally we never heard another word about it leading me personally to believe the guy could have been the perp.. now hearing that he is not I feel very bad for this innocent boy whose face has been nationally broadcast in relation with a child sexual attack and it never cleared from there. .

So thank you for stating this I feel PCSO should release a statement as well.. jmo.

You have to understand PCSO or any local "politics". PCSO aren't known for being vocal/public. The video was "disclaimered" locally not as a suspect, but rather as a person LE wished to speak with/identify. That was done pretty early on. There has not been a peep here (I am about 5 miles from that home) since.

 

[GutFeeling!]

It just blows my mind that some posters actually believe that the no contact agreement could be innocently explained away... "it is voluntary..blah blah". Sorry, but I just have to say it. How can you possibly think that there isn't something serious going on involving SC. The only possible way that I can think to explain it away is a. Precautionary measures in light of the man who recently blew up his house with his two little boys tragedy (aaah the name slips my mind!) Or b. SC has been framed.

What I am trying to say is there is NO WAY that the cps involvement is not a huge deal.

define huge - I am only saying what I have gone through, not what I "think" not my "opinion" just "MY life" Sorry I blew your mind. Although I never ever said innocent, I just don;t think it has to be so dramatic as others cause I have lived it. But thanks for that. THAT's how I could possibly say it! So you stick to your theories while I live mine.

 

[Galadriel]

Thanks. I ran into the kid's mom eating lunch late one afternoon at Pei Wei...

OT: I have to know, what is Pei Wei, and is it pronounced Pee Wee? Inquiring minds... :waitasec:

 

[cajun]

I am solely a reader of Isa's case but I read this article in the Houston paper a couple of weeks ago about CPS's "voluntary" plans. Granted this is Texas, but I wonder if AZ does the same thing and for the same reasons. I was shocked at the numbers of children taken from parents "voluntarily"

Hart: 'Voluntary' CPS plan has some parents feeling bullied

By Patricia Kilday Hart

Updated 12:06 a.m., Monday, May 28, 2012

Patricia Kilday Hart


Two young families in the Houston area suffered unspeakable tragedies in recent months. In one case, a toddler drowned; in another, a new mother was gunned down in a parking lot and her newborn snatched. Both incidents required investigation by law enforcement officials, who as a matter of course, called Child Protective Services.
What happened next to both families reflects a disturbing trend that Houston attorney Chris Branson blames on a 2008 legal memorandum sent to all Texas CPS investigators. The grieving, distraught parents were asked to sign a "voluntary safety plan" drawn up by CPS, temporarily placing their remaining children in someone else's care.
Following a 2008 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals decision, CPS investigators were encouraged to seek such "voluntary" agreements before removing children from a home. Otherwise, the memo cautioned, they would need to wait for a court order, unless the child faced imminent danger.
Now, "not a week goes by" that Branson says he isn't contacted by parents who feel they've been bullied into surrendering their children to a "voluntary" plan under threat they will lose their children permanently through court intervention. Most were warned by CPS not to consult a lawyer, he says.


http://www.chron.com/news/kilday-hart/article/Hart-Voluntary-CPS-plan-has-some-parents-3587923.php

 

[WhatsupAZ]

define huge - I am only saying what I have gone through, not what I "think" not my "opinion" just "MY life" Sorry I blew your mind. Although I never ever said innocent, I just don;t think it has to be so dramatic as others cause I have lived it. But thanks for that. THAT's how I could possibly say it! So you stick to your theories while I live mine.[/QUOTE

I certainly was not directing at you, Gut. I didn't quote anyone because I just meant posts collectively over the past few weeks.

I appreciate personal stories like yours about cps because they shed light on how things work, but all are missing one thing... A misssing 6 year old.

Certainly did not mean to offend you, gut. You only blew my mind when you said "sexy" a few posts back. I really like your SOH and appreciate your take on things.

I still waffle every day from family to stranger and back again... But I cant get past the cps thing.

 

[katydid23]

I am solely a reader of Isa's case but I read this article in the Houston paper a couple of weeks ago about CPS's "voluntary" plans. Granted this is Texas, but I wonder if AZ does the same thing and for the same reasons. I was shocked at the numbers of children taken from parents "voluntarily"

Hart: 'Voluntary' CPS plan has some parents feeling bullied

By Patricia Kilday Hart

Updated 12:06 a.m., Monday, May 28, 2012

Patricia Kilday Hart


Two young families in the Houston area suffered unspeakable tragedies in recent months. In one case, a toddler drowned; in another, a new mother was gunned down in a parking lot and her newborn snatched. Both incidents required investigation by law enforcement officials, who as a matter of course, called Child Protective Services.
What happened next to both families reflects a disturbing trend that Houston attorney Chris Branson blames on a 2008 legal memorandum sent to all Texas CPS investigators. The grieving, distraught parents were asked to sign a "voluntary safety plan" drawn up by CPS, temporarily placing their remaining children in someone else's care.
Following a 2008 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals decision, CPS investigators were encouraged to seek such "voluntary" agreements before removing children from a home. Otherwise, the memo cautioned, they would need to wait for a court order, unless the child faced imminent danger.
Now, "not a week goes by" that Branson says he isn't contacted by parents who feel they've been bullied into surrendering their children to a "voluntary" plan under threat they will lose their children permanently through court intervention. Most were warned by CPS not to consult a lawyer, he says.


http://www.chron.com/news/kilday-hart/article/Hart-Voluntary-CPS-plan-has-some-parents-3587923.php

IIRC, this 'voluntary' agreement thing was used in the Ayla Reynolds case too. CPS swooped in and convinced the mom to make a voluntary agreement giving custody to Ayla's dad, and then she had no luck getting her back. Ever.

 

[pieper4]

OT: I have to know, what is Pei Wei, and is it pronounced Pee Wee? Inquiring minds... :waitasec:

LOL. It's an Asian-style fast food place. Kinda. http://www.peiwei.com/index.aspx. I never know how it's pronounced, and actually don't care for their food. Way too salty. It's a little 'fancier' than most fast-food places with a cafeteria-style feel.

 

[SapphireSteel]

IIRC, this 'voluntary' agreement thing was used in the Ayla Reynolds case too. CPS swooped in and convinced the mom to make a voluntary agreement giving custody to Ayla's dad, and then she had no luck getting her back. Ever.

You can't compare a custody agreement with a "no contact" agreement, they are apples and oranges.

I believe that this has come about at the request of the Celis boys. I believe if CPS or LE were very concerned about their well-being they would have also been removed from RC.

The fact that they remain with their mother indicates to me that the boys themselves requested their father be banned from contacting them.:moo:

 

[WhatsupAZ]

I too have a personal cps story. It is just too painful to dredge up, but I will post it in a nutshell: my estranged (and deranged) sister was living in squallor and dating a RSO. CPS put forth a voluntary family plan. She ignored it and le picked up her 5 and 6 year old from school and 'escorted' them to live with her exhusband. She ended up marrying the RSO and lost the kids for good.

Bright side...i finally found my nephew last year. He graduated from hs last weekend. I am super proud of him. He ended up running away and lived from friend to friend AND STAYED IN SCHOOL!

 

[GutFeeling!]

I am solely a reader of Isa's case but I read this article in the Houston paper a couple of weeks ago about CPS's "voluntary" plans. Granted this is Texas, but I wonder if AZ does the same thing and for the same reasons. I was shocked at the numbers of children taken from parents "voluntarily"

Hart: 'Voluntary' CPS plan has some parents feeling bullied

By Patricia Kilday Hart

Updated 12:06 a.m., Monday, May 28, 2012

Patricia Kilday Hart




http://www.chron.com/news/kilday-hart/article/Hart-Voluntary-CPS-plan-has-some-parents-3587923.php

Snipped : Killer article! And what i have been trying to say (not the bullying part - although I get that part) What WOULD you do? sign or take a risk? the word voluntary makes it very different doesn't it?

 

[cajun]

Snipped : Killer article! And what i have been trying to say (not the bullying part - although I get that part) What WOULD you do? sign or take a risk? the word voluntary makes it very different doesn't it?

Me? They would have to drag my butt into court, especially if I knew I was innocent of anything, but I get where some people would voluntarily give their children up, especially if CPS did bully them into signing. The Davis's went to the foster home and took their child away and left TX. I don't blame them one bit.
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012/05/drowned-cleveland-toddlers-parents-snatch-baby-sister/

 

[Carpe Pacem]

Bright side...i finally found my nephew last year. He graduated from hs last weekend. I am super proud of him. He ended up running away and lived from friend to friend AND STAYED IN SCHOOL![/QUOTE]

What a good, good kid your nephew is! Not only good, but strong! He must be full of joy to be reunited with a sweetheart of an aunt. I admire your lost-and-found capabilities so much.

 

[WhatsupAZ]

Bright side...i finally found my nephew last year. He graduated from hs last weekend. I am super proud of him. He ended up running away and lived from friend to friend AND STAYED IN SCHOOL!

What a good, good kid your nephew is! Not only good, but strong! He must be full of joy to be reunited with a sweetheart of an aunt. I admire your lost-and-found capabilities so much.[/QUOTE]

He is a good kid. He tangled with some delinquencies in his early teens, but when he finally "ran away" when he was 16 he straightened up. He is going to be 20 at the end of the summer and it amazes me that he stayed in school to graduate at 19 years old. There is TONS more to his story but despite it all he has dreams and goals and he is detetmined to reach them. He completely raised himself.

He could have just been one of our statistics. (but please say a prayer for his little sister. Not out of the woods yet with her... Very sad.)

 

[GutFeeling!]

define huge - I am only saying what I have gone through, not what I "think" not my "opinion" just "MY life" Sorry I blew your mind. Although I never ever said innocent, I just don;t think it has to be so dramatic as others cause I have lived it. But thanks for that. THAT's how I could possibly say it! So you stick to your theories while I live mine.[/QUOTE

I certainly was not directing at you, Gut. I didn't quote anyone because I just meant posts collectively over the past few weeks.

I appreciate personal stories like yours about cps because they shed light on how things work, but all are missing one thing... A misssing 6 year old.

Certainly did not mean to offend you, gut. You only blew my mind when you said "sexy" a few posts back. I really like your SOH and appreciate your take on things.

I still waffle every day from family to stranger and back again... But I cant get past the cps thing.

Sorry mate I was a dick, I jumped without good reason :whoosh:

Sometimes I am a little :nuts: other times I am a big NUT lol

Should we hug or kiss or something? I am not sure of correct protocol - may need a mod for that lol

 

[WhatsupAZ]

Sorry mate I was a dick, I jumped without good reason :whoosh:

Sometimes I am a little :nuts: other times I am a big NUT lol

Should we hug or kiss or something? I am not sure of correct protocol - may need a mod for that lol

I think you are just inviting the mod in to make it a threesome... Smooches.

Seriously, though... I am tough, I can take some, but I don't like offending people. Sorry if I offended you.