AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #23

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Link below about Hispanic hyphenated names & what the redacted portion of their names might be for re: RR & HR. It's not unusal to have a couple or more. Wonder what the redacted part says? I don't remember seeing HR's name followed by a redaction? It could simply be their relationship like "uncle" redacted but doubt it as it's already been established.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/article_2eb06d6d-ca7e-53db-b0e5-9fdb217d2033.html

As far as searching court docs, jail bookings etc...it makes it harder than heck to find someone with several last names. Honestly. jmo

Thank you. I was curious about that. I did notice other pages referencing the truck where both RR and HR have a blacked out part right after Rodriguez. I don't think anything else fits besides an additional name. Just wonder why their name would be sensitive.

ETA: (trying to paste link to report but having trouble)

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
 
Thank you. I was curious about that. I did notice other pages referencing the truck where both RR and HR have a blacked out part right after Rodriguez. I don't think anything else fits besides an additional name. Just wonder why their name would be sensitive.

ETA: (trying to paste link to report but having trouble) I think Pdf 4 page 37 posted by Prof a few pages back.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2



Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
 
Thank you. I was curious about that. I did notice other pages referencing the truck where both RR and HR have a blacked out part right after Rodriguez. I don't think anything else fits besides an additional name. Just wonder why their name would be sensitive.

ETA: (trying to paste link to report but having trouble)

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
Could it be redacted because it's a name that will link to something else? One of my friends from college moved to Guatemala and married a local. She's simply Jane Doe, but his name is John Doe [mother's last name]. If RR and HR bear a maternal surname at the end, maybe it would point somewhere that the police don't want exposed? Or maybe it's just concern for their privacy?

IDK. It's grasping at straws, but it feels like that's all we've got to grab at. Please be alive, safe, and well, sweet Isa!
 
I'm going to take a guess that HR arrived in town in the very truck that he co-owns with RR, after RR toook the truck that morning and drove Isabel to Douglas and handed her off to relatives. Then, he gave HR a ride back with him. No wonder they searched that vehicle. They may indeed have it on camera as being at the house in the early morning hours. Recall that they also searched RR's cell phone and photogrpahed his texts.

Some here may think I'm cynical, but nothing else fits together as well as taking this child and tucking her away while her reknown and the donation fund grows. I really think some of the adults in this family came up with a twisted idea to make money off of her disappearance and make her "famous" and they are sticking to the tattered script even as LE signals that they're on to them and that they WILL be prosecuted. They just want the child home safe first.

Interesting theory.Do you think the two boys are in on it too ? Hard to imagine them keeping quiet... JMO
 
I just want to know what they were trying to locate in the truck that was redacted. They went to the one brothers apt and questioned all of them together there, the cellphone, truck and have we heard any of them talk publicly? Well, actually the whole family's being quiet, so I don't guess that means anything.
 
I think you just unearthed another piece of the puzzle.

I believe that many who are following this case tend to think that Sergio Celis is among the front-runners in the perp category, but I lean towards Rebecca Celis and/or her "associates" (brothers, cousins, uncles, etc.) being responsible for Isabel's disappearance. :moo:
 
Could it be redacted because it's a name that will link to something else? One of my friends from college moved to Guatemala and married a local. She's simply Jane Doe, but his name is John Doe [mother's last name]. If RR and HR bear a maternal surname at the end, maybe it would point somewhere that the police don't want exposed? Or maybe it's just concern for their privacy?

IDK. It's grasping at straws, but it feels like that's all we've got to grab at. Please be alive, safe, and well, sweet Isa!

Yes I thought the same thing. That it might link to something else. Why else when no one else's privacy is regarded in those LE reports.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
 
uploadfromtaptalk1339735591829.jpg
Here we go - what looks like redacted second last names.

ETA: This is the second place noting "Hector's" truck.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
 
Yea, I won't rule out Rebecca or family. No one actually in Isa's immediate surroundings as we just don't have the full facts to even speculate very far on any info. I'm not liking all the directions that finding Isa can go. Gah, it could be many different combos of people. Blah, need news, need the parents to speak up, need updates, need an arrest, most importantly is the need to find Isa. How can they all be so silent!!!?
 
I'm going to take a guess that HR arrived in town in the very truck that he co-owns with RR, after RR toook the truck that morning and drove Isabel to Douglas and handed her off to relatives. Then, he gave HR a ride back with him. No wonder they searched that vehicle. They may indeed have it on camera as being at the house in the early morning hours. Recall that they also searched RR's cell phone and photogrpahed his texts.

Some here may think I'm cynical, but nothing else fits together as well as taking this child and tucking her away while her reknown and the donation fund grows. I really think some of the adults in this family came up with a twisted idea to make money off of her disappearance and make her "famous" and they are sticking to the tattered script even as LE signals that they're on to them and that they WILL be prosecuted. They just want the child home safe first.

While I don't question the possibility of complicity of family members, even those in or with ties to Douglas, I don't see Isabel being *in* Douglas alive. Douglas may be a rather ratty border town, but many residents spend a lot of time in Tucson...or at the very least rely on our news. (The Douglas Disgrace, errrr, Dispatch, is woefully awful). People wanting that $60K+ reward would rat in heartbeat if she's there or submit tips if there are even vague suspicions of her being harbored/held in Douglas. Now... transferred off to Mexico or another state... I can fathom. But crossing the border in Douglas in HR/RR's truck? They would have to be daft. Only because the major entry points, including Douglas, are thoroughly recorded by numerous video cameras -- and they know that. I would *hope* that TPD has reviewed all of that footage.

As for the motive being financial gain... I can't go there. I would doubt that the TMC and PayPal "funds" have more than $20K between them, personally. Like most communities, Tucson is hurting economically.

But who on earth knows? Just my opinions/thoughts/blahblahblah.
 
If that is the case LE would also have cell phone pings of RR's phone along the route to and from Douglas. Does anyone know what time it is first documented either RR and HR were at the house?

I also find it weird that I read JM was at the neighbors house at 8 am looking for Isa. He is not on the list of people called that morning so why was he there at the time SC noticed Isa missing.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

all good questions...no answers...this is what i found:

hector:
"He lives in Douglas and made the trip to Tucson as soon as his daughter called him with news that little Isabel went missing."

justin:
"Her uncle came to the neighborhood as soon as he heard the news as well."

http://www.kvoa.com/videos/missing-girl-s-family-and-neighbors-speak-out/

i looked up the interviews and all alicia ever said was "her uncle" knocked on her door...she never said 'justin'. so really, it could have been louis or robert or mark, correct? maybe we've been wrong all along?

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/26/ng.01.html

and rick moore said LE asked him not to speculate on who was with sergio that morning...so he can't be sure it was justin, or any other male (meaning another uncle or even sergio jr.)

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/27/ng.01.html

did anyone find the detective's transcript of their visit to moore security? in the doc dump anywhere? he specifically stated they were there "right away", at 8:30am...since officers arrived on scene at 8:20, there must have been an account of officers going to moore. 500 pages, it's got to be somewhere. darned if i can find it. lol.
 
I'm going to take a guess that HR arrived in town in the very truck that he co-owns with RR, after RR toook the truck that morning and drove Isabel to Douglas and handed her off to relatives. Then, he gave HR a ride back with him. No wonder they searched that vehicle. They may indeed have it on camera as being at the house in the early morning hours. Recall that they also searched RR's cell phone and photogrpahed his texts.

Some here may think I'm cynical, but nothing else fits together as well as taking this child and tucking her away while her reknown and the donation fund grows. I really think some of the adults in this family came up with a twisted idea to make money off of her disappearance and make her "famous" and they are sticking to the tattered script even as LE signals that they're on to them and that they WILL be prosecuted. They just want the child home safe first.

good theory, and i'm on the cynical train right along with you. hector was "glued to his binoculars" according to the kvoa article. hm. worried they might find something? i believe he's in on this in some way, along with RR...also, they sprayed the interior with luminol; they must have reason to believe she was injured in some way (the blood in the house, toyota?). results came up negative but it was tested...kwim?

i'm not buying into the mexico/money thing just yet...i still feel it was opportunistic, not planned per se, to bolster the donation pleas...kind of an afterthought. and though mexico would make sense, that is so risky...who would take that chance? and would it be to save SC's behind? or RC's? or...?
 
hello, sorry if asked before, I´ve missed it!
has police made some drugs and alcohol tests to both parents that same day
Isa went missing?
I don´t think so because they first thought it was a non family abduction or that she had not met foul play
 
This may seem like a silly question but I have to askit. What is needed for an arrest and conviction? I know people will say EVIDENCE but exactly what kind of evidence?

It seems some people are tried and convicted on circumstantial evidence or the testimony of a witness and others are acquitted when there is tons of evidence. Does it vary by jurisdiction? If the crime is murder, why are some cases prosecuted without a body and other never even an arrest because there is no body?

U.S History and Government REview

The issue which forces the hand of LE are The Rights of the Accused. These are outlined in the first 10 ( 5-10)amendments. In truth these right preceded the 1789 constitution and were in place from the first constitutional convention " articles of the confederation"( this constitution didnt work so the founders created a " more perfect one". These rights were dear to the colonists who were frequently thrown in jail/executed with no evidence-These individual rights ( see below Bill of Rights):

Amendments in the Bill of Rights which pertain to the individual rights of the accused.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
Amendment VII

In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

.............

These are the examples from the Declaration of Independence which relate to what the colonists were going through under King George.

"He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers."

".....He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures."
_
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
...........

http://billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/constitution/

:guitar:
 
Yea, I won't rule out Rebecca or family. No one actually in Isa's immediate surroundings as we just don't have the full facts to even speculate very far on any info. I'm not liking all the directions that finding Isa can go. Gah, it could be many different combos of people. Blah, need news, need the parents to speak up, need updates, need an arrest, most importantly is the need to find Isa. How can they all be so silent!!!?

BBM Dr. Know!

Here are some possibie answers. Because they don't know what happened to Isa. Because they don't want to mess up the investigation. Because LE has stated all along that in order to find out what happened they need to keep all information close to the vest.

Maybe the family members are not being silent at all? IMO Just because they don't want to be put on trial in the press and public eye, does not mean they are being silent. LE has stated all along that the family has continued to work with LE cooperating fully.

Yes, I agree, that there could be every possible combination of things that happened to Isa out there. So LE has to work to rule people out. Naturally, they start with the family, the neighbors, anyone who knows Isa. They investigate anything that looks like possible evidence, from fingerprints on a window sill, to a neighbor's car, to an empty pool blocks away. I don't think any post on all of these threads has seriously ruled out anyone.

LE can rule out people, and according to their pressers LE has ruled out some. They have ruled out some family members. IMO I think it is a good possibility that some of the extended family members in the batch of reports that LE tossed to the press are those same family members they might have ruled out.

No we don't have the full facts. IMO We have little drips in the way of facts, very little, not even enough to turn off the empty gas tank warning light.

The doc dump reportedly was only a portion of reports. It is also important to keep in mind IMO that "Reports" is the key word. We don't have any results from any of these reports of searches of homes and cars in the neighborhood.

IMO There is nothing in those reports that points any more pointedly to out-of-town Grandpa, U.S. Army Physician Assistant Uncle R, Dental Assistant Dad, Pediatctric RN Mom or any of their helpful neighbors. There were warrants served on homes and cars and on any possibililty just as has LE has stated in pressers all along.

It is more of note to me that this extended family not only rush to each others' aid in time of crisis, but many work in medical field, showing they like to help others in their time of crisis. Could it not be possible that some of the family members who work in the medical field accidently transfered a little spot of patient blood from their pants to their cars?
 
They have avoided any media - and in my opinion, they are actively avoiding it because they don't want to get tripped up in talking at all about their daughter's disappearance.

These parents know they are being watched. I firmly believe they are the main suspects, and I also believe that they know it.

Bingo!
 
BBM Dr. Know!
(SNIPPED)
No we don't have the full facts. IMO We have little drips in the way of facts, very little, not even enough to turn off the empty gas tank warning light.

IMO, the most important evidence to date in this case - and probably the thing that first tipped LE off that something wasn't "right" about the Celis' story - is behavioral. There's a lot of it, and most of it is out for public consumption.
 
I believe LE wanted the docs out there to show who they were mostly looking at in the case. After vehicle searches and cellphone activities, noone's been cleared from all they've found.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
145
Guests online
2,069
Total visitors
2,214

Forum statistics

Threads
604,680
Messages
18,175,389
Members
232,803
Latest member
aceofswords
Back
Top