AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #23

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cajun said:
Me? They would have to drag my butt into court, especially if I knew I was innocent of anything, but I get where some people would voluntarily give their children up, especially if CPS did bully them into signing. The Davis's went to the foster home and took their child away and left TX. I don't blame them one bit.
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012/05/drowned-cleveland-toddlers-parents-snatch-baby-sister/
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Wow! I don't blame them either. This gives me an entirely different perspective regarding the voluntary agreement with SC. The no contact part of the agreement, though, is what still has me questioning if this is the case.
 
pieper4 said:
LOL. It's an Asian-style fast food place. Kinda. http://www.peiwei.com/index.aspx. I never know how it's pronounced, and actually don't care for their food. Way too salty. It's a little 'fancier' than most fast-food places with a cafeteria-style feel.
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Oh, I love Pei Wei and miss it. Don't have it up here in the Midwest. It's the "little sister" of PF Changs (same company owns it) but it's a lot less expensive. You go up to the counter to order.
 
so what's the consensus on how long the no contract agreement will stand...i have no idea. is it up to CPS to 'lift' the restriction? or is it up to sergio to fight it?
 
SmoothOperator said:
Thank you for this info.. IMO the PCSO should have made this announcement.. i mean I get why they publicly airedthis poor young man's image on the video.. but still they never cleared him.. last heard was chief Nanos on NG stating that the father called in and identified the boy as his son.. the chief said they'd interviewed the guy and that they'd taken a buccal swab that was sent off for comparison to the DNA they had from the perp...then nothing further but silence.. atleast to us nationally we never heard another word about it leading me personally to believe the guy could have been the perp.. now hearing that he is not I feel very bad for this innocent boy whose face has been nationally broadcast in relation with a child sexual attack and it never cleared from there. .

So thank you for stating this I feel PCSO should release a statement as well.. jmo.
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I totally agree with you!!! Even though they disclaimed that this was a person of interest - the poor kid was all over the news. He attends high school with my child and he was a good sport about it. As a parent, I would be livid!
 
As a parent I would be upset that my high schooler was out at 2 am on a school night!...just saying. Maybe there was a lesson learned? I think the PCSD has no reason to apologize, personally. They stated the "man" in the video was an investigative lead. They have not disclaimed that. There is no reason to believe that someone's age or the fact that the person might go to a private religious school would clear that person, either. If the "kid" looks like he's in his 20s, acts like he's in his 20s, and is out at 2 am on a Monday, he can expect to be treated as an adult, especially when LE is doing their best to try to catch a child molester, possible rapist?
JMO
 
OT: I think Pei Wei (pronounced Pay Way) is owned by PF Changs, isn't it? I love it too. Used to live in AZ and miss it. AZ has a lot of great places to eat. :)

Sorry BrownRice - you beat me to it. I hadn't read all the way when I jumped the gun and replied.
 
I honestly think CPS's actions in AZ are case dependent, influenced by LE and the individual CPS office and employees. I have seen on the news local children removed from homes that looked like they were maintained by Martha Stewart compared to one of MY family member's homes. Yet CPS made ME look like the bad guy. Kids sleeping on the floor, on dog urine-soaked carpet, no food in the house, drugged out un-employed father who slept all day while mom worked long hours to pay the house, etc. NOTHING was done by CPS, and I was told the parents were wonderful parents. The parents did not allow me to see my grandchildren after THE call, until 5 years later when the father tried to kill my daughter after ripping off the security door with his bare hands, shattering the sliding glass doors, rendering the house even more un-liveable - all with a restraining order in place. It WAS good to see him hog-tied in the back of a police car.

With the father out of the picture, the house renovated and cleaned, things are getting back to normal. But the kids had to suffer for YEARS, and bear many emotional scars. I will NEVER forgive CPS and family court. I understand they may help some families, but I have never heard anything positive in PHX.

I pray they are doing the right thing in the BC/SC/IC family.
 
Why does Sergio have to leave home and have no contact with his sons?
Sunday, May 20th, 2012

Police released information that Child Protective Services made a voluntary agreement with Sergio Celis. He is not to have contact with his sons. He agreed to leave the family home. That does not mean the children were “removed” from the father or the family.

This type of agreement is developed during a meeting with the family and concerned professionals, as well as the CPS investigator, supervisor and CPS meeting facilitator. If the CPS agency got information from law enforcement that the father had done something to put his children in the way of harm, the agency needed to take action. But, maybe there wasn’t enough information to take the situation to court, under our Arizona laws.

Removal of children must meet stringent legal requirements that the CPS investigator would need to detail in a written petition to the court.

A voluntary agreement is time limited and has stipulations. For example, there is a monitor appointed whose role it is to assure that the father doesn’t violate the agreement. Typically and it is my best guest - that the mother was given the designation as monitor – which would mean that at this time she is trusted by the CPS agency, as well as law enforcement and willing and able to set and maintain these limits.

In addition to that, there may be drop in visits to the home randomly, by a CPS investigator. Or, there could be a trusted family member monitoring and visiting additionally.

All parties, including both parents need to agree to and sign off on a voluntary. It is not legally binding. However, if he violated it, that could provide legal weight for the agency to initiate a court case. In the worst case scenario, if the mother were enabling the violation, the children may be removed and put with approved relatives, or if that is lacking, in foster care.

The agreement doesn’t mean that Sergio Celis is considered to have done something wrong or hurt his daughter. It is a precaution.

If there was grave concern, there would be court action (through the Pima County Juvenile Court) initiated by CPS and not a voluntary contract.

It may be that he has a past record of arrests for driving while intoxicated with the children in the car. Or, he had an arrest several years ago – at a younger age – for using marijuana, cocaine or other drugs. Or, it could simply be based on whatever information law enforcement provided. Keep in mind if that were concrete and irrefutable proof he was somehow involved or negligent, then law enforcement would have initiated an arrest.

Sergio could be severely depressed about his daughter’s disappearance and feels so guilty that he has verbalized suicidal ideation. He could be unable to function due to depression, leading him to cry continually and/or react in unpredictable ways that adversely affect his boys.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/pats-bits-and-bytes/?author=17249?author=17249&paged=2
 
It means he was removed from them, no contact, can't even be at the same vigil with so many people around. He's not fought it, to this point noone knows if he has a lawyer and I'm sure the media would have found out already. LE said information that was found "during their investigation", so they talked to CPS about it, which were already involved.

It wasn't a random thought on LE or CPS' part that it happened. This can't be thrown under the rug or explained away, CPS is for protecting children and they wouldn't take a parent away from a child in the middle of a life crisis like their sister being abducted, unless it was necessary. This is a very public case and CPS knows people are watching, so they wouldn't lightly make such a decision.
 
I totally agree on CPS problems in many states, they've lightly taken children, many times didn't when they should have and hundreds have been lost in their systems. I believe a couple of years ago I read about 500 in Florida alone. But in this case, being so public, I don't believe CPS would be stupid enough to make such a decision lightly and I'm sure LE felt there was a big problem or they wouldn't have told CPS.
 
wow...6 members and 6 guests...
bumping for you Isa!! Still thinking about you and checking in every day.
 
In his May 14th interview, the chief said in the course of some interviews that had occurred during the last week, information was brought foreward, that "they felt it was necessary" to consult with CPS. What was told to them and CPS "consulted with detectives and some family members", and a voluntary agreement was reached. He also said everyday he gets more worried, but not giving up hope, have occurrences where children are found months later, even years, but he doesn't think this is the case with Isabel.

The chief said there were no other family member that couldn't have contact with the children. It seems to me if any of the investigations of extended family members were fruitful, the CPS agreement might have extended to them,also. JMO Reading in between the lines, when a reporter asked if both parents were at the home that night, he said they both were there when Isa went to bed, he didn't say, "from what we've been told". So I think he's confident probably from the boy's account, but then he said, "From what we have been told is Rebecca got up in the morning and left for work and then Sergio got up and discovered Isa was missing."

When asked if LE has been outsmarted, he said it's not outsmarting, he said these things take time, they're very complex, very involved, following up on leads and looking at the evidence and what they can prove. He said what evidence they can gather if they end up taking this to court, what can they prove, but they didn't have enough information to prepare for court, make an arrest, or find Isa, at that time.

http://www.kvoa.com/news/tpd-celis-...s-voluntarily-at-cps-request/#!prettyPhoto/0/
 
winterrose said:
The chief said in the course of some interviews that had occurred during the last week, information was brought foreward, that "they felt it was necessary" to consult with CPS. What was told to them and CPS "consulted with detectives and some family members", and a voluntary agreement was reached. He also said everyday he gets more worried, but not giving up hope, have occurrences where children are found months later, even years, but he doesn't think this is the case with Isabel.

The chief said there were no other family member that couldn't have contact with the children. It seems to me if any of the investigations of extended family members were fruitful, the CPS agreement might have extended to them,also. JMO Reading in between the lines, when a reporter asked if both parents were at the home that night, he said they both were there when Isa went to bed, he didn't say, "from what we've been told". So I think he's confident probably from the boy's account, but then he said, "From what we have been told is Rebecca got up in the morning and left for work and then Sergio got up and discovered Isa was missing."

When asked if LE has been outsmarted, he said it's not outsmarting, he said these things take time, they're very complex, very involved, following up on leads and looking at the evidence and what they can prove. He said what evidence they can gather if they end up taking this to court, what can they prove, but they didn't have enough information to prepare for court, make an arrest, or find Isa, at that time.

http://www.kvoa.com/news/tpd-celis-...s-voluntarily-at-cps-request/#!prettyPhoto/0/
Click to expand...

BBM

I have seen other LE basically say the same thing on other cases and those cases went cold and LE really didnt have any evidence to prove who the perpretrator is. What they have said is more of a cover their butts on trying to explain why they have not arrested anyone nor found Isa, imo.

Even in this article LE says they are still following up on tips and I imagine those are way down by now.

I am afraid I am going see this case become cold unless LE gets a lucky break or credible tip comes in on the tip line.

Of course it is 'from what we have been told.' The police wasnt there when all the Celis family was in for the night after coming home from the ballgame so the Celis family told LE all the particulars just like any family members would tell LE who were alone in their home when something like this happened.
 
I don't care what anyone says, NO WAY I let them remove my remaining children from my life if I didn't have anything to hide. That simple.
 
I find it strange that LE had a press conference to tell the world about the voluntary order. When CPS is involved it is a juvenile matter and not on public record. No one would have known about it so why did LE make it known?

Is it possible that SC agreed to stay away from his children as a means to smoke out the perp? If all eyes are on the immediate family then the perp will relax.

I wonder what SC and RCs IQ is. They would have to be genius to out smart LE, FBI, and US Marshalls, yet at the same time be stupid for allowing the walk through without legal representation for themselves AND their child. IMO

I am still:fence:

BTW I was also wondering if the 'blood' in Isa's room could have been from losing a tooth.
 
During questioning, Chief Villasenor reiterated that he would not comment on what caused the voluntary separation.

Villasenor emphasized this development does not mean that they have "settled on a path" in this investigation, and that, as has been the case, all leads and potential suspects are still being considered. He says that 12 to 15 detectives are working external viewpoints," in this case, looking into the possibility that a stranger abducted Isabel Celis. He says about four detectives are looking into internal possibilities - that a family member or someone connected to family is involved.

Whether there is family involvement or not, it just seems that LE is very heavily focused on it. Maybe it's because it's all they have to go on, but never the less, they have info we've not seen and might not.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
BBM

I have seen other LE basically say the same thing on other cases and those cases went cold and LE really didnt have any evidence to prove who the perpretrator is. What they have said is more of a cover their butts on trying to explain why they have not arrested anyone nor found Isa, imo.

Even in this article LE says they are still following up on tips and I imagine those are way down by now.

I am afraid I am going see this case become cold unless LE gets a lucky break or credible tip comes in on the tip line.

Of course it is 'from what we have been told.' The police wasnt there when all the Celis family was in for the night after coming home from the ballgame so the Celis family told LE all the particulars just like any family members would tell LE who were alone in their home when something like this happened.
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I understand Ocean, but it seems with this presser and releasing the 911 calls at that time where they thought the path is on the case. They might have another path they're looking at more heavily now. We've not heard from them recently, they're sure not tellng the public anything, nor is the family. If the seperation agreement is still intact, I think alot hasn't changed. JMO
 
Where is Isabel?:please: as we continue to hope...

I was looking at JM, RC, & SC's records at a site on FB - can I put I link?( its a discussion type page- in images) I am not sure. Please let me know if I can.

any way...In summary...about their records ::::::::::::THUD:::::::::
umm

JMOO I can't understand why there is still a team out there who think the family blameless saints.


How are all their dui, possession etc...charges all " completely dropped " all the time?

Also, SC's charges april 19th 20,12 ? ??? criminal charges??? re..the dogs loose and unvaccinated> am I right?you get dui's completely dropped but get threatened criminal convictions for unvaccinated pets in AZ? can't be so..

Isn't the timing too strange?( 4/19/12 I would bet tensions were a little high around the home. Plus it was 420.

and when I can get back up from my ::thud:: I will come up with more examples about how this entire group of people continually behave as if they are above the law...and everyone else.

:websleuther:

suddenly just MOO RC + JM , I 'm wondering if they are way more close than I've thought before.

And to think while JM had all those charges (9 /11-1/12 )( probably suspended license and all those " possessions" he was going through probation right there in isa's room.

NIce close family....triangle. They even travel together.!? ( pics from jm's fb)
 
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