AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #23

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time said:
Doesn't JM's niece (CM -in the packets) say he lived there and recently moved into an apartment?
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She does say that, and there is another reference to him having just moved out in December, in the doc dump.
 
I think the Celis' have more supporters on this thread than they do in all of AZ.
 
OtherEyes said:
BBM: First of all that phrase was hilarious!:floorlaugh:
You make some really good points about the window frame and indeed if that is the dresser then it IS odd that fingerprints where not able to be taken off the top. Initially I had not been too concerned about the dresser as most prints would most likely be smeared from daily use IMO. Are we sure that is the dresser? It looks like a possible headboard? :waitasec:IDK...
But,:goodpost:
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I believe it's the dresser, because in the docs it says top of the dresser was checked for prints. It appears it is, though.
 
Lark2 said:
I think the Celis' have more supporters on this thread than they do in all of AZ.
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I'm sorry but this isn't just a one-sided forum. You may not like the fact that some posters don't feel the way you do or they don't take a side and stick to it without ALL of the facts, but that's just the way it is.

This forum is for open discussion and if we all felt the same way, it would be incredibly boring and do no good.

<modsnip>
 
Lark2 said:
I think the Celis' have more supporters on this thread than they do in all of AZ.
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Thank goodness for justice AND for the Celis family, this thing won't be decided on by a popularity contest.:moo:
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
I've read those accounts, too, but have found nothing to substantiate the blog comments on any Tucson newspaper or TV station website. Local media would have been all over this because the CPS agreement was headline news when it became known that Sergio was asked to stay away from his sons. Bloggers can say anything they want to make their followers believe that they have insider knowledge of a case, but that doesn't make it so. :moo:
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There is also the well known psychological phenomenon that if you're looking for something, you tend to see it. So, for instance, if you're looking for blue cars, all of a sudden, you see blue cars everywhere even though you'd never really noticed them before.

If a person hears a rumour that SC is being seen with his two sons, I believe that could predispose someone to seeing any relatively young, dark haired man with two boys, one tween and one teen, as SC and his sons.

But I know from visiting Tucson myself that there are tens of thousands of young, dark haired men who appear to have young, dark haired kids.
 
winterrose said:
I believe it's the dresser, because in the docs it says top of the dresser was checked for prints. It appears it is, though.
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I know it was checked for prints I thought they just couldn't lift latent prints?
 
scout35 said:
I'm sorry but this isn't just a one-sided forum. You may not like the fact that some posters don't feel the way you do or they don't take a side and stick to it without ALL of the facts, but that's just the way it is.

This forum is for open discussion and if we all felt the same way, it would be incredibly boring and do no good.
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BBM:
It isn't all one-sided yet, but I think a whole lot of posters have just given up.

<modsnip>
 
OtherEyes said:
I believe you are right Time, do you rememeber where in the doc dump this is found?
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I was just getting ready to submit this when I saw your post.

IMO we do have some other information about Justin living at the Celis residence. It is in our "unclejmmoneygun.jpg" document.

DC denied making some of the comments reported by the employee at the shoe store, but he did actually make a statement to this officer. Then CM (Justin's niece) also made a statement. Both of their statements were apparently recorded, because the officer refers to the audio recordings for further details.

I think it is fair to question the credibility of this couple, but they were willing to speak to this police officer. These accounts are part of the police document dump, not just a TV interview. Danny mentions a rumor, but CM said JM "moved out of the Celis residence", so IMO she didn't seem to consider it a rumor.

DC: The report says "DC stated the following:"

"He has heard rumors that Chelsea's uncle, JM, was staying with the family, and that he owes someone money."


CM: The report says "CM stated the following:"

"JM moved here from Florida about 6 months ago and has not held a job. She thinks he could be dealing drugs. HE MOVED OUT OF THE CELIS RESIDENCE RECENTLY and has an apartment."
 
Lark2 said:
BBM:
It isn't all one-sided yet, but I think a whole lot of posters have just given up.

And this sort of response is exactly why so many have given up.
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No, it isn't a one-sided forum in principal. It's not supposed to be a forum of same exact opinions. Differing opinions are what keeps the conversations going and moving ahead.

If posters have "given up", it's because there is nothing happening in this case. There is no new info so there isn't much to talk about.

<modsnip>
 
Lark2 said:
As if on cue...

Anyway, to respond: Baseless condemnation??? Most people who acquaint themselves with the facts about this case - particularly the behavioral facts - come away thinking SC had something to do with his daughter's disappearance, and many also think RC did too.

Some things we base our opinion on include:

  • The 911 call
  • TPD: "Inconsistencies in parents' statements"
  • TPD: Parents still considered suspects/not cleared two months later
  • TPD had to chastisize them for avoiding media (no use-still avoiding it)
  • TPD: "Parents lack a sense of urgency." Same lack of urgency we heard in Sergio's voice on the 911 tape.
  • SC banned from contact with sons by CPS.
  • Lack of any active searches since very early on in the case.
    Cryptic comments by TPD that undermine the parents.

There's a ton more. Maybe others here in the "family did it" camp can add to the list.
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There are other people to look at, yet everyone has been focused on the family since day one. Yes, I support the family as a general rule until I actually see evidence supported by forensic results released by credible sources. So far, that hasn't happened.

I just honestly don't understand why it bothers you so much that people support them. I see more people that are on the fence, yet hover to the "family did it" camp. Sorry, I'm not one to go with the masses and most of the time, it serves me well to keep an open mind.

For the record, no one has been publicly eliminated. In fact, TPD did say that some family members were cleared although they did not say which ones.
 
Lark2 said:
BBM:
It isn't all one-sided yet, but I think a whole lot of posters have just given up.

And this sort of response is exactly why so many have given up.
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I haven't give up, but this case totally baffles me. This family seems on the surface to be the average family. Everyone in the docs. talked well of them if not glowingly. But, there does IMO seem to be problems with the window, timeline, CPS, 911 call, yet to be explained blood on Isa's floor (I am discounting car) to a lesser extent to me lack of interviews but gladly promote & accept donations. These are things that bother me, so I do not feel comfortable in any way defending this family even though I am not sure if anyone of them is guilty of anything.
 
We all want the same ending for Isabel to be found..
I am glad to see continued interest in her case even if i don't post often.
Thank you for keeping her on the front here..

I am sitting on the fence..I learned the hard way with the Groane children.
 
time said:
Ok, guys, is there really enough known to either defend or convict the Celis'...REALLY? I, myself, don't think so.
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I defend the facts in this case. I personally don't see evidence that specifically points to someone within the family or someone outside of the family.

I admit that I do defend the facts a bit more responding to posts that have mistated the facts to convict a family, a family of possible victims, a family who has a little girl lost.

This family has not been named suspects. Because they have not been cleared as POI's either, the family are not being treated as victims as we usually do on WS.
Instead, way back in thread #4 we were asked to post responsibly.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #4

Respectfully quoting Nursebeme Thread # 4 (BBM)

Everyone including the parents are a person of interest and have not been ruled out.
http://www.kvoa.com/news/police-ever...-missing-girl/

after discussing with other mods we will allow sleuthing... with that being said, there is absolutely NO BASHING of the family. And if at any point in time the course of the investigation changes and they are ruled out then this rule will change as well. please post responsibly

eta: we are allowing sleuthing because they have been called persons of interest...not because they haven't been ruled out.
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I will continue to defend the facts in this case.

This has been a difficult case as LE has not given us much, and because we have a group of POIs who may also be victims.
JMO
 
I haven't posted much at all lately, since I don't feel that there is enough evidence to point fingers at anyone. And I haven't posted because I think that the posters who believe that family did it are just going to once again present the same "evidence" that they believe, once again, over and over. So I keep out of the discussion since we are just going over and over the same old same old, and I just keep up reading so when something new happens I am aware of it. But I truly do not see this forum as lopsided in favor of the family. I do see a few valiant posters who try and maintain a grasp on the truth, and a few posters defending the family. All the rest.... Think the family did it and think it LOUDLY. So I hope that the few who are on the fence like me, or are in defense of the family stick it out. I, for one, truly appreciate the effort it must take for them to post on here.
 
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