AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #25

[SUNchips]

Unfortunately not all people think that way. People hear "Missing child, arizona, hispanic, near Mexico border" people are going going to assume drugs, cartel, etc.

I don't know, I guess that could be true for some people, but I hear "missing child, Arizona, near mexico border, Fast and Furious prime suspect has same last name" (notice-no mention of race) and I think that drugs/cartel might not be so far fetched. And this is the opinion of someone who lives in Tucson.

 

[SapphireSteel]

It's often floated as a theory, but the truth is, organised Drug Cartels have absolutely no interest in stealing children, as it means the focus of the FBI, local LE, State LE and two grieving parents.

Children are a "high risk" bargaining chip. They cry, they need food, they don't behave as expected, and they come with all sorts of Investigators looking under every rock for them.

Too much trouble. And for what? What can stealing someone's child in revenge achieve, that a bullet in the head can't, with a lot less fuss?

There has been no demand for ransom, so one can assume money is not the motive.

:cow:

 

[Dr. Know?]

I guess you have to live here to understand. I don't live in fear, we do have a property we are building on near the border as it's a beautiful location but we don't automaticaly think of cartel. It is creeping into AZ. Tucson has always had it's share and don't get me started on illegals and employment as we are building contractors. We don't hire illegals, both of us over the years have worked with human being illegals. It's just a fact and a fact that legally can be corrected, if wanted. Just like a moocher on welfare. Just go get it made legal fgs. I've witnessed illegals being busted and hauled away. I knew them and they were just here illegally. My new friends back in the 90's. Gone...some back within 2 hours though. Fake id's made for them in CA....sad situation but drugs, fgs there are drugs, money, prostitution, child sex trades, and whatever else a corrupt country can supply, possibly in your town too. It's spills over and don't a one of you try to tell me differently unless you have lived in my shoes and my town, or country! for almost 40 years. gah...

 

[sweetsavi]

It's often floated as a theory, but the truth is, organised Drug Cartels have absolutely no interest in stealing children, as it means the focus of the FBI, local LE, State LE and two grieving parents.

Children are a "high risk" bargaining chip. They cry, they need food, they don't behave as expected, and they come with all sorts of Investigators looking under every rock for them.

Too much trouble. And for what? What can stealing someone's child in revenge achieve, that a bullet in the head can't, with a lot less fuss?

There has been no demand for ransom, so one can assume money is not the motive.

:cow:

I've watched several documentaries on the epidemic of kidnappings in Mexico. Most times they are held for ransom, but also many times they are sold into sex slavery.
Yes, it's much harder to get away with it in USA, it still wouldn't surprise me if it's happened that close to the border.

 

[TxLady2]

There is a fairly low level of drug sales that entails "credit". It doesn't take tons of product to get credit. At all. It's all about marketing. You, as a higher level dealer want to encourage your underlings to take some risks. So you offer credit for a key (kilo). Not only do you not have to front the cash to buy, you keep a little bit for yourself. The payback timeframe could easily be months depending on the dealer and the market.

Then there's the laundering aspect of the business. Any deposit over 10K (I believe it still is) has to be reported by the bank to the IRS and other agencies, so the dealers look for partnerships to silently move $7500, $8000, etc. through a legitimate business or account in order to convert all those $20 bills into larger denominations to buy. Those folks don't even need to sell or be involved in the actual movement or transactions of the product. They just pass money through their bank accounts.

In the cartels, the message is everything. "Hold the kid til he pays"; "hold the kid til he gets the message that we're not playing around"; "hold the kid in lieu of payment at the debtor's request"; "shoot the family dog"; "his cousin's wife stiffed us and she has no other family we can find" are not uncommon scenarios.

Then are are familial connections. "Trust Joe. His brother is key to our endeavor/business". I suspect this is the likeliest scenario, IF there is one at play here.

BWDIK? IMO.

Got a link for that?
Kidding. I know how it works for medium- to high- level dealers, but what I'm getting at is that a big drug cartel is not going to have any contact with the customer, it's going to be the low-level dealers who get the credit, not the customers who are buying. Unless you're implying that SC and BC are dealers. I don't think there is any evidence of that. So if they were into kidnapping a child to teach somebody a lesson, they'd take the kid belonging to the dealer, not the customer who is just buying dope for their own use. IMO, of course. I think if there was a connection here somewhere to a drug cartel, there would be some action we would hear about.
Can anyone point to one case where a child from an ordinary family not involved in dealing drugs was kidnapped by a drug cartel? One that has been proven, preferably... not just speculated on. I know there are speculations in a lot of missing child cases, but AFAIK, they've never been proven. TIA.

 

[rachaellouise]

sorry if this has already been discussed, but what was made of the writing inside Isas closet (or on the wall, I can't remember?)? What did it say?

 

[Dr. Know?]

Didn't the writing inside the closet come from Nancy Grace's show or JVM's show? I don't remember anything about that in the court docs nor from LE.

90 days has come and gone, no word in regards to the sealed search warrants? I haven't seen anything but I don't watch news all of the time.

 

[Madeleine74]

We're going to have to accept this case may never be solved. The parents aren't looking for their daughter, no one is making ransom demands, there's no "cartel" involved, Isa is not sitting off somewhere sipping Shirley Temple drinks. It is what it is.

Somehow people managed to get over the JonBenet Ramsey case and many other cases over the years, so it can be done. If the parents aren't concerned and LE cannot get enough evidence to charge one or both parents, there's nothing anyone else can do. A witness (if there is one) needs to come forward or a body needs to be found. Outside of that... cold case and sorry, but those do happen. Not every case gets solved. Not every perp gets punished. And not every death gets avenged.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Articles on the growing sex trafficking business of Mexico into the US. I wouldn't brush it off as it couldn't happen it's a lucrative business & sadly many US men & other men from countries who are willing to pay for it. We had a teacher a few years ago as well as others who were caught going to Mexico and paying to have sex with a child. They order them up. There's a good movie about it but can't remember the name of it at the moment. It made me just sick knowing how they "order" a child up by color of skin, hair, age...etc...

I don't think Isabel was taken by a cartel, yet...I have my suspicions of well, someone in the family knowing.

http://ktar.com/category/local-news...rug-cartels-also-involved-in-sex-trafficking/

http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.c...in-crosshairs-of-child-sex-trafficking-fight/

"I was just a baby. I was 12 and they preyed on me. What would a grown man want with a twelve-year-old child?!" Now 31, she is finally getting out after nearly two decades in the sex-trade.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/l...ed-in-Tijuana-Child-Sex-Trade--133094943.html
snipped

Najeri is afraid to run away. Her pimp, she said, has told her what happens to the bodies of runaways.

“The morgue comes by the hospital and incinerates it before anybody can be alerted that an American died,” she said. “That struck fear in my heart.”

http://cedarsfoundation.com/?cat=20
snipped
The FBI says that child *advertiser censored* is the fastest growing form of *advertiser censored* on the Internet. Where do you think they get the kids?”

A good book written by a guy I went to school with, retired FBI (was on Oparah a few years ago). "The Last Undercover by Bob Hamer, The true story of an FBI agent's dangerous dance with evil.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

We're going to have to accept this case may never be solved. The parents aren't looking for their daughter, no one is making ransom demands, there's no "cartel" involved, Isa is not sitting off somewhere sipping Shirley Temple drinks. It is what it is.

Somehow people managed to get over the JonBenet Ramsey case and many other cases over the years, so it can be done. If the parents aren't concerned and LE cannot get enough evidence to charge one or both parents, there's nothing anyone else can do. A witness (if there is one) needs to come forward or a body needs to be found. Outside of that... cold case and sorry, but those do happen. Not every case gets solved. Not every perp gets punished. And not every death gets avenged.

This is a strange attitude to have for a case that's not even a year old. Yes, there are cases that go unsolved. Everyone knows that. But it doesn't mean this case is hopeless. I'm not sure what you mean by people have managed to "get over" the JBR case because there are still forums online to discuss it (not just WS) and her dad gave many national interviews to promote his book back in March. I'm not sure how much attention a 17-year-old case with no developments is suppose to get but it's still one of the most well known unsolved cases. I also don't know we are suppose to start "getting over" Isabel's case when it's still pretty recent. There are many people who will never accept Casey being acquitted, even though there is zero chance she will ever go to jail for Caylee's murder.

 

[Madeleine74]

I just meant that it's possible this case could remain unsolved. I'm not saying it will, I'm just saying it could happen. It appears by what we can observe that LE has suspicions about SC but does not have enough evidence to make an arrest. We know LE has not cleared the family. Cases can and do stall out right there. It doesn't mean every case will, but this one could. It's possible.

And the parents aren't going to push it because if they are involved they don't want to go to jail. So yes, it will fade away at some point if it's not solved. Not completely, and not by everyone, but if a case isn't solved, it will fade.

 

[SapphireSteel]

sorry if this has already been discussed, but what was made of the writing inside Isas closet (or on the wall, I can't remember?)? What did it say?

I know what it was alleged to have said, but posting it would be against TOS I believe?

 

[Dr. Know?]

Here is a recent cartel money laundering scheme out of Texas by a lawyer. What a guy. $600 million! Whew.

Attorney accused of trying to launder $600 million for drug cartelFrom Joe Sutton,

CNN updated 6:33 AM EST, Fri November 9, 2012

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/09/justice/texas-lawyer-arrested/index.html

Isabel needs to be found.

jmo

 

[pieper4]

Another interesting look into the seemingly "normal", outwardly admirable life of a major drug player is the book Doctor Dealer. I promise it will dash those stereotypes about dealers, middlemen, cartels and money laundering. No time to read? A quick synopsis http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/55319.Doctor_Dealer.

 

[pieper4]

And just for the record, I vacillate between pointing my finger at Dad and Uncle/Cousin. I don't personally think this has a damn thing to do with a drug cartel per se. I do "feel" that either/both of these family members may well have had some nefarious dealings on the very dark side and might have had to make a deal with the devil until things were "resolved." Take it with a grain of salt. I'm no wizard.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I don't know what happened to Isa, but the laws of KISS state the last person to see Isa is the one responsible for her disappearance.

Somehow conspiracy theories are more acceptable to us than the most likely explanation, which is the parents did it.

It happens over and over, when the parents are seemingly decent members of society. Look at Jonbenet, Caylee, Madeleine McCann. We just don't want to believe that "nice" people hurt their children - yet we know child abuse cuts across all sectors of society. :sick:

Clever individuals take advantage of our difficulty believing in their guilt, and good defense lawyers turn that resistance into "reasonable doubt".

My opinion only...Isa could have been trafficked, it happens. I personally just don't see it, especially with the hinky behaviour of mum and dad.

:cow:

 

[Knox]

I too think the KISS Principle works in Isabel's disappearance. Especially as time progresses and nothing new has been discovered.

Poor little Isa

 

[sweetsavi]

We're going to have to accept this case may never be solved. The parents aren't looking for their daughter, no one is making ransom demands, there's no "cartel" involved, Isa is not sitting off somewhere sipping Shirley Temple drinks. It is what it is.

Somehow people managed to get over the JonBenet Ramsey case and many other cases over the years, so it can be done. If the parents aren't concerned and LE cannot get enough evidence to charge one or both parents, there's nothing anyone else can do.

I'm not disagreeing necessarily, but what makes you say the parents aren't searching?
They've done several interviews, been at all the awareness/fundraiser events, made tshirts.....what more should they be doing???

 

[kat77]

I found the following link from a Phoenix TV station, but I have no idea how much time Katie Couric will spend on the Celis case:

"Parents of missing Tucson girl, Isabel Celis, on 'Katie' Monday"

"PHOENIX - The parents of missing Tucson girl, Isabel Celis, will be featured on the ABC show "Katie" Monday afternoon."

"Becky and Sergio Celis will be among several guests talking about people who vanished without a trace, according to a show news release."

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/entertainm...ts-of-missing-daughter-isabel-on-katie-monday

 

[SapphireSteel]

I'm not disagreeing necessarily, but what makes you say the parents aren't searching?
They've done several interviews, been at all the awareness/fundraiser events, made tshirts.....what more should they be doing???

This brings up another unusual aspect of this case.

It appeare that the fund raisers and community support have stopped dead.

There was even a formal search organised by the community which was inexplicably called off at the last moment, and never rescheduled.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/19194425/only-a-few-show-up-for-paper-your-streets

If you know of something happening right now, can you please share? Because I was under the impression that they aren't even pretending to search anymore.

TIA