Found Deceased AZ - Isabella Grogan-Cannella, 8, Bullhead City, 2 September 2014 - #3

[wantjustice]

Disheartening and sooooo sad. It frightens me that this is so prevalent in society now. These babies will soon be having babies of their own, I fear we as a society are losing control. I know, I am a "Debbie Downer" today. Sorry.

You are not along in feeling this way! Just the other day there was a man and woman, appeared to be in their early 20s, if that, driving on down the road, cutting cars off and in and out of traffic. Their music was very loud and the system rattled their own car. Bad enough on its own but then we spotted the top of a little head in the back seat. Barely could see her little head and didn't even know she was in there at first. She had to be two or three listening to adult music, blaring at a horribly loud level. Made me want to take her home and raise her. I see this a lot in society today. Appeared mom was dragging her to where ever she was going. Not uncommon in this city. In fact, there was an article in the paper locally about a decade ago that Social Services were having high amounts of abuse among children of single moms. As a condition of receiving aid, moms were told that after a certain time, they had to find a job or enroll in college to continue receiving assistance. This lead to many moms leaving their children with their boyfriends while attending school etc. Thus caused the intense rise of abuse since most of these boyfriends were not the bio fathers. Social Services was very overwhelmed and unsure how to handle it. I am sure this problem has only intensified. It is a sad world we live in.

 

[jojo87]

Things are definitely quietening down but with no new reports I can't really comment. I also gave up the Facebook groups they are out of control. Like ChuckMaureen I've been trying to find out the deal with the federal public defender but have came up with nothing except the fact that the FBI were investigating but I don't know if that automatically makes it a federal case.

 

[3blue1pink]

Got up because I can't sleep. Too much going in now ( in my own world ). Hoping sleuthing would help take my mind off of it for a while. All if this waiting is making me crazy . I just can't understand why with all if the evidence of child endangerment and neglect we haven't seen more arrests . I know patience is necessary however it's never been one of my strong suits. I just feel like the longer they wait , the more likely TG will walk.

 

[3blue1pink]

Things are definitely quietening down but with no new reports I can't really comment. I also gave up the Facebook groups they are out of control. Like ChuckMaureen I've been trying to find out the deal with the federal public defender but have came up with nothing except the fact that the FBI were investigating but I don't know if that automatically makes it a federal case.

It seems like society is more concerned with political correctness . As not to offend the poor addicted moms and dads . I for one am tired of the tail wagging the dog . We have got to stop the enabling and hold people accountable for their actions. I just cannot fathom how many sick people their are in the world . Scariest part is that they are parents ! If they don't kill or maim their offspring they will turn them into carbon copies of themselves . These poor little babies are being subjected to horror that even the strongest adults would find unbearable . How can we as society let this happen? I find most have their own problems to deal with and just bury Their head in the sand . Apathy and laziness seems to be the way of the 21st century .

It's only after a horrific episode that people start to take notice and only for a short period . I just want to scoop up these angels and protect them from the world .

I have a friend who is a foster parent. Wow! What a hard job. It rips her apart every time she has to give back a child that she has cared for and protected in a way that no one EVER has. Now that is dedication to humanity . That being said , I couldn't do it . Nit because I don't have that kind if heart but because I'm too worried about the after affects of the trauma they have endured in their short lives , infecting my own children. Terrible to say . Yes. But it's the truth. How many kids have we ruined by letting them endure life in Hell for too long ? This has to be nipped in the bud in order for any significant change to take effect . We have to decide what is more important . Coddling and patting the abusive parent on the head and saying "there , there" we know how hard it must be to be a drug addicted , drug dealing, foul mouthed , child abuser . Let me take you to counseling and we can undo all the terrible in your life.

Sorry, To me this kind of attitude Is "unproductive" and irresponsible . Once you have children . Game over no free passes no collecting 200 dollars . Go directly to jail!

I know I've been Suzy sunshine today . If you've bothered to read my novel my hat is off to you and I give you thanks .

 

[Tealgrove]

Just thinking out loud this morning.

After reading a number of FB posts in those groups I don't think much is going to happen for quite some time.

LE has a very large task before them wading through a ton of stories, lies, etc. I think there is going to be a real problem getting reliable witnesses just by virtue of the lifestyle issues that they are dealing with in terms of Bella's family and those that may step up with information.

I am reminded of the Tim Bosma case. He wasn't charged for the murder of his father and former girlfriend until a year after the fact even though we all thought he was guilty of something in relation to the suicide of his father (not) and the disappearance of his former girlfriend (not). He got nailed for two more murders but it took a year to bring charges.

I believe we will see more charges in Bella's case but what they may be anyone can guess and perhaps it won't be TG. Stranger things have happened.

When you are dealing with the likes of this crew LE has to be 100% sure that the information they have is right and the witnesses will be able to stand up in court. They can't just go out and arrest a "grieving mother" without all the i's dotted and t's crossed.

Patience....I think there are going to many twists and turns to be uncovered in the months to come.

 

[lillybell]

Was TGs daughter removed by cps after Bella was found because of the ongoing investigation or was it to keep a witness safe? Or do they believe TG wasn't caring for her properly?
I'm asking to see if any charges of neglect etc are likely.
I know she certainly wasn't providing a safe environment for both girls when Bella was alive, I'm wondering how common it is to have a child/children removed after one child was abducted and murdered, when LE have the killer in custody.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Was TGs daughter removed by cps after Bella was found because of the ongoing investigation or was it to keep a witness safe? Or do they believe TG wasn't caring for her properly?
I'm asking to see if any charges of neglect etc are likely.
I know she certainly wasn't providing a safe environment for both girls when Bella was alive, I'm wondering how common it is to have a child/children removed after one child was abducted and murdered, when LE have the killer in custody.

The same thing happened in the Jenise Wright case. Other children in the home were removed for a few weeks before they were eventually returned to the parents. SOP or CYA cautious or a combination?

 

[vasportsmom]

I'm still here too, was here from the start and will be to the end.
I keep checking in to see if there's been any new developments.( well arrests really), I was reading the bhc Bella Facebook page, but I had to stop, the bickering and name calling took over.
Guess we just have to wait till the next court appearance to see if we learn anything more.x

That FB group terrifies me. The hate-mongering and eye for an eye mentality is going to get someone hurt or killed if it continues unchecked. They are determined to take up their pitchforks and burn someone at the stake and when the fervor builds I don't think they will care if it is Tania, her bf or some innocent person that gets in their way and tries to quell them.


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[Krystine]

It seems like society is more concerned with political correctness . As not to offend the poor addicted moms and dads . I for one am tired of the tail wagging the dog . We have got to stop the enabling and hold people accountable for their actions. I just cannot fathom how many sick people their are in the world . Scariest part is that they are parents ! If they don't kill or maim their offspring they will turn them into carbon copies of themselves . These poor little babies are being subjected to horror that even the strongest adults would find unbearable . How can we as society let this happen? I find most have their own problems to deal with and just bury Their head in the sand . Apathy and laziness seems to be the way of the 21st century .

It's only after a horrific episode that people start to take notice and only for a short period . I just want to scoop up these angels and protect them from the world .

I have a friend who is a foster parent. Wow! What a hard job. It rips her apart every time she has to give back a child that she has cared for and protected in a way that no one EVER has. Now that is dedication to humanity . That being said , I couldn't do it . Nit because I don't have that kind if heart but because I'm too worried about the after affects of the trauma they have endured in their short lives , infecting my own children. Terrible to say . Yes. But it's the truth. How many kids have we ruined by letting them endure life in Hell for too long ? This has to be nipped in the bud in order for any significant change to take effect . We have to decide what is more important . Coddling and patting the abusive parent on the head and saying "there , there" we know how hard it must be to be a drug addicted , drug dealing, foul mouthed , child abuser . Let me take you to counseling and we can undo all the terrible in your life.

Sorry, To me this kind of attitude Is "unproductive" and irresponsible . Once you have children . Game over no free passes no collecting 200 dollars . Go directly to jail!

I know I've been Suzy sunshine today . If you've bothered to read my novel my hat is off to you and I give you thanks .

It's simple...you hit on it with your comment about political correctness. We have gone from black and white, right and wrong, as a society to being told we have no right to make judgements...about anything. It is almost a worse crime to be outspoken against lifestyle choices and actions than the crime itself.

 

[Magdalyn]

The same thing happened in the Jenise Wright case. Other children in the home were removed for a few weeks before they were eventually returned to the parents. SOP or CYA cautious or a combination?

As I believe gitana1, a verified lawyer on WS, has explained on the Jenise case, it is not SOP to automatically remove children when there is the death of one child. There has to be a very serious determination (probable cause) by LE and CPS to put the children in immediate protective custody.

We can all think of too many cases where the children were allowed to remain for days, weeks, (Cherish Perrywinkle) or never be taken by CPS for it to be SOP or CYA.

https://www.azdes.gov/dcyf/cps/

Sometimes information gathered by Department of Child Safety (DCS) indicates that the risk of harm to a child is so great that he or she would be unprotected if allowed to remain in his or her own home. When this happens, children must be removed on an emergency basis.

In Jenise Wrights case, they were already in the CPS system, and LE reported that their removal was done due to probable cause.

"As detectives got into the investigation, they realized there was probable cause to remove two children from the house," Wilson told CBS Affiliate KIRO.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cps-removes-kids-from-wash-home-after-6-year-old-goes-missing/

 

[vasportsmom]

As I believe gitana1, a verified lawyer on WS, has explained on the Jenise case, it is not SOP to automatically remove children when there is the death of one child. There has to be a very serious determination (probable cause) by LE and CPS to put the children in immediate protective custody.

We can all think of too many cases where the children were allowed to remain for days, weeks, (Cherish Perrywinkle) or never be taken by CPS for it to be SOP or CYA.

https://www.azdes.gov/dcyf/cps/



In Jenise Wrights case, they were already in the CPS system, and LE reported that their removal was done due to probable cause.



http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cps-removes-kids-from-wash-home-after-6-year-old-goes-missing/

Nm, found it. Poor babies deserved better than being sent back to that environment.


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[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

It's simple...you hit on it with your comment about political correctness. We have gone from black and white, right and wrong, as a society to being told we have no right to make judgements...about anything. It is almost a worse crime to be outspoken against lifestyle choices and actions than the crime itself.

Maybe the issue is that being "outspoken against the lifestyle .. actions" has been found to be unsuccessful in quashing their behavior. Those of us not caught up in that world already position ourselves as being against it and agree we recognize the horrors it can produce. Being "outspoken" directly to the culprits is not equivalent to scolding a child who has done wrong. I believe many of use would agree it is much more complicated than that and should be approached in a manner that productively steers culprits away from the lifestyle and actions .. perhaps by systematically presenting the positives of a clean life, its ripple effects and by removing the reverse stigma they hold of us 'straights' as being "not cool".

 

[Krystine]

bbm



Maybe the issue is that being "outspoken against the lifestyle .. actions" has been found to be unsuccessful in quashing their behavior. Those of us not caught up in that world already position ourselves as being against it and agree we recognize the horrors it can produce. Being "outspoken" directly to the culprits is not equivalent to scolding a child who has done wrong. I believe many of use would agree it is much more complicated than that and should be approached in a manner that productively steers culprits away from the lifestyle and actions .. perhaps by systematically presenting the positives of a clean life, its ripple effects and by removing the reverse stigma they hold of us 'straights' as being "not cool".

We all know that we can't [B"]productively steer culprits away from lifestyle and actions"...that is entirely up to 'them'...all we can do is lead by example in life, and some may notice and many more may not.
My point was, we do get to judge. A healthy society makes these judgements and anyone who chooses alternatively, IMO, can flop around on their own, until they ask for help with their addiction. The only help that is of any value is the help you seek out to save yourself.

 

[vasportsmom]

We all know that we can't [B"]productively steer culprits away from lifestyle and actions"...that is entirely up to 'them'...all we can do is lead by example in life, and some may notice and many more may not.
My point was, we do get to judge. A healthy society makes these judgements and anyone who chooses alternatively, IMO, can flop around on their own, until they ask for help with their addiction. The only help that is of any value is the help you seek out to save yourself.

Well said (and kudos for reading that whole word soup)!


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[vasportsmom]

bbm



Maybe the issue is that being "outspoken against the lifestyle .. actions" has been found to be unsuccessful in quashing their behavior. Those of us not caught up in that world already position ourselves as being against it and agree we recognize the horrors it can produce. Being "outspoken" directly to the culprits is not equivalent to scolding a child who has done wrong. I believe many of use would agree it is much more complicated than that and should be approached in a manner that productively steers culprits away from the lifestyle and actions .. perhaps by systematically presenting the positives of a clean life, its ripple effects and by removing the reverse stigma they hold of us 'straights' as being "not cool".

Wait, are you saying that if I can't baby you into acting legally, morally and semi intelligently then I need to ignore your offensive behaviors and hope you get tired of me being your doormat and see the error of your ways?

*general you and I

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[hambirg]

We all know that we can't [B"]productively steer culprits away from lifestyle and actions"...that is entirely up to 'them'...all we can do is lead by example in life, and some may notice and many more may not.
My point was, we do get to judge. A healthy society makes these judgements and anyone who chooses alternatively, IMO, can flop around on their own, until they ask for help with their addiction. The only help that is of any value is the help you seek out to save yourself.

BBM. . .I'm glad you wrote that.

The truth is, in a modern secular society, we need the outrage. Without getting into an in depth sociological discussion, we still need to be able to assert, as a society, those things we perceive as "bad." We also have the need to reinforce those things we deem as truth within the construct of our society. . .things like personal responsibility, free will, etc.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

We all know that we can't [B"]productively steer culprits away from lifestyle and actions"...that is entirely up to 'them'...all we can do is lead by example in life, and some may notice and many more may not.
My point was, we do get to judge. A healthy society makes these judgements and anyone who chooses alternatively, IMO, can flop around on their own, until they ask for help with their addiction. The only help that is of any value is the help you seek out to save yourself.

I agree, they must want to correct their course.... but, my point is:

Many addicts are so blind so as not to recognize the danger of their choices and it takes for an external influence to help them come to see the folly of their ways. It is not easy; telling them how *bad* they are, how *worthless* they are, etc., will not convince them (at first). Instead, it forces them to push back and dig in deeper and now you've either made the job more difficult or even virtually impossible. After you've gotten their attention to a workable degree (usually after a very tragic event, but in this cases as we witness with TG the event would have to happen *directly* to their being, as obviously the narcissism is quite strong in some), then you can highlight the negative aspects of what they've been doing and how it affects those close to them, etc.

I do not know what it would take for someone such as a TG to finally open an ear to a discussion. In this case there may be extenuating circumstances that had precluded even beginning a discussion after this tragic event since culpability beyond only neglect might be at play. Unfortunate and tragic.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Hmmm... This early report makes the most sense of all, especially if Rector hadn't actually stayed in the house but maybe instead in a garage or shed in the yard. If the kids were always outside running around, even after dark as some reports have suggested, and if considering the bedrooms are upstairs, then maybe the outside yard would be considered downstairs as well. Maybe?

http://www.azcentral.com/story/laur...old-found-murdered-in-bullhead-city/15132677/

Questions linger after 8-year-old's strangulation death
LAURIE ROBERTS
Laurie Roberts, columnist | azcentral.com 10:27 a.m. MST September 5, 2014

Bella was last seen on Monday evening by her sister, who told authorities that they'd been playing hide and seek in the yard with Rector when she went inside to use the bathroom. She returned to an empty yard.

Police say Rector had been living with the family for a few days.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I want to know if Rector tested positive for hard drugs and, if so, can whomever he got them from also be charged with Bella's murder.

 

[blefuscu]

Hmmm... This early report makes the most sense of all, especially if Rector hadn't actually stayed in the house but maybe instead in a garage or shed in the yard. If the kids were always outside running around, even after dark as some reports have suggested, and if considering the bedrooms are upstairs, then maybe the outside yard would be considered downstairs as well. Maybe?

http://www.azcentral.com/story/laur...old-found-murdered-in-bullhead-city/15132677/

Questions linger after 8-year-old's strangulation death
LAURIE ROBERTS
Laurie Roberts, columnist | azcentral.com 10:27 a.m. MST September 5, 2014

I would think that the initial report from the sister saying that Rector was there playing with them was truthful. Why would she lie about it, if she didn't realise that mom and Ralphie are later going to say they didn't know he was there?