Found Deceased AZ - Isabella Grogan-Cannella, 8, Bullhead City, 2 September 2014 - #4

[lillybell]

The abduction, (assumed) rape and murder of Isabella have nothing to do with the lifestyle. It is a separate issue.

Really? JJR wouldn't even have been there to have the opportunity if it wasn't for TG!
If TGs lifestyle didn't include drugs and convicts, I would imagine Bella would still be here.
If her children had been in bed at a reasonable hour and TG had stayed home to watch her children and their home wasn't used as a drug drop in, then the opportunity for such a crime would be less.

 

[skibaboo]

Did TG not say herself that authorities, CPS? were starting a case for 'neglect in the death of a child' against her?

Neglect, 100% caused by lifestyle.

The authorities think it, how can you NOT think TG's lifestyle choices didn't play a huge part in what happened to Bella?

:thinking:

 

[Ontario Mom]

JJR's crime is not inherent in those who choose the lifestyle attributed to the individuals related to this case. Everyone simply wants to condemn TG and company because they are druggies, burglars, etc.

The LIFESTYLE in which TG and friends engage has nothing to do with the crime committed by JJR.

I'm curious if you've ever been around meth users? If you've ever seen them switch from a regular person to a freak that scares the living carp out of everyone? If you've ever heard them plan elaborate ways to score more drugs? If you've ever listened closely as they detail things they'd like to do/try (and I mean private, perverted things)? If you've ever heard them talk about the way they avoid getting busted? If you've ever actually been IN a meth flop house where people were doing things with each other in full view of everyone, mattresses on the floor, garbage everywhere, and guns and ammo sitting right out in plain view? If you've ever heard meth dealers talk about ways to settle debts?

I don't know if you have, but the fact is, you can quote all the statistics and case studies on the planet, but until you've seen it first hand, you can't possibly know what meth addicts are like. Any one of them, at any time, can (and they do) completely flip and do the most awful things you can think of. So on this point, we're simply going to disagree because I have seen it, heard it, and ran as fast as I could from it.

 

[Ontario Mom]

The authorities think it, how can you NOT think TG's lifestyle choices didn't play a huge part in what happened to Bella?

:thinking:

Well it sure as heck wasn't the mailman, the grandpa down the street or one of the ladies TG had over for tea that afternoon that was charged with this crime.

 

[Hippiemomof5]

it comes up on his record .....

I'm not saying JJR didn't do *something* that made a 39 year old file an order of protection against three children but as far as I know, we have no proof that they are his children or what was actually done that led the 39 year adult to file the order. It's all speculation and rumor.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Really? JJR wouldn't even have been there to have the opportunity if it wasn't for TG!
If TGs lifestyle didn't include drugs and convicts, I would imagine Bella would still be here.
If her children had been in bed at a reasonable hour and TG had stayed home to watch her children and their home wasn't used as a drug drop in, then the opportunity for such a crime would be less.

Wouldas Couldas Shouldas ..are just as attributable to non-druggie families who, if only they had W C S .. then their kid might not have been abducted / murdered.

Their druggie lifestyle is tangential, not endemic to this specific type of crime (child abduction / murder).

 

[ChuckMaureen]

I'm curious if you've ever been around meth users? If you've ever seen them switch from a regular person to a freak that scares the living carp out of everyone? If you've ever heard them plan elaborate ways to score more drugs? If you've ever listened closely as they detail things they'd like to do/try (and I mean private, perverted things)? If you've ever heard them talk about the way they avoid getting busted? If you've ever actually been IN a meth flop house where people were doing things with each other in full view of everyone, mattresses on the floor, garbage everywhere, and guns and ammo sitting right out in plain view? If you've ever heard meth dealers talk about ways to settle debts?

I don't know if you have, but the fact is, you can quote all the statistics and case studies on the planet, but until you've seen it first hand, you can't possibly know what meth addicts are like. Any one of them, at any time, can (and they do) completely flip and do the most awful things you can think of. So on this point, we're simply going to disagree because I have seen it, heard it, and ran as fast as I could from it.

I am close-and-personal familiar with the effects of meth, heroin, crank, coke, barbs and pot. It is that close-and-personal familiarity that kept me from partaking in the lifestyle, although I often found myself around those who did (while growing up and during some of my adult years). So?

What does being a druggie have to do with abducting, (possibly) raping and murdering of a pre-pubescent child? Last I knew such a crime was categorized as child sexual abuse-and-murder, nothing to do with whether or not the perp was high, straight or praying to Jesus.

How many of the cases referenced in the following links involved a perp who was a druggie, much less a meth head?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/22/us/missing-children-fast-facts/

http://www.crimelibrary.com/blog/tag/child-abduction/index.html

The lifestyle has nothing to do with this specific type of crime.

 

[news.talk]

Wouldas Couldas Shouldas ..are just as attributable to non-druggie families who, if only they had W C S .. then their kid might not have been abducted / murdered.

Their druggie lifestyle is tangential, not endemic to this specific type of crime (child abduction / murder).

What is "endemic to this specific type of crime" is, leaving children alone with a violent criminal who just smoked meth all day. That is asking for trouble, whether it be rape, murder, burning the house down with the kids inside, weapons being improperly handled or her kids having to watch someone O.D. from drug consumption.

The type of crime that was the result is not the issue when determining negligence. The parent's negligence was in the act of choosing a caregiver and houseguest. They don't need to be aware that a specific crime may take place, just that something bad may happen as a result of their negligence. No one is asking that they be psychic, just that they be parents and minimize any and all risk.

Had there been no drug addicted flop house with criminals lifestyle, there wouldn't have been a murder.

 

[musicaljoke]

I am close-and-personal familiar with the effects of meth, heroin, crank, coke, barbs and pot. It is that close-and-personal familiarity that kept me from partaking in the lifestyle, although I often found myself around those who did (while growing up and during some of my adult years). So?

What does being a druggie have to do with abducting, (possibly) raping and murdering of a pre-pubescent child? Last I knew such a crime was categorized as child sexual abuse-and-murder, nothing to do with whether or not the perp was high, straight or praying to Jesus.

How many of the cases referenced in the following links involved a perp who was a druggie, much less a meth head?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/22/us/missing-children-fast-facts/

http://www.crimelibrary.com/blog/tag/child-abduction/index.html

The lifestyle has nothing to do with this specific type of crime.

I don't agree. I believe that the lifestyle is hugely co-related to child abuse, sexual assaul and death. Drug user-addicts should not be allowed to keep children in their home.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...y-Children-condemned-drug-addict-parents.html

 

[news.talk]

I am close-and-personal familiar with the effects of meth, heroin, crank, coke, barbs and pot. It is that close-and-personal familiarity that kept me from partaking in the lifestyle, although I often found myself around those who did (while growing up and during some of my adult years). So?

What does being a druggie have to do with abducting, (possibly) raping and murdering of a pre-pubescent child? Last I knew such a crime was categorized as child sexual abuse-and-murder, nothing to do with whether or not the perp was high, straight or praying to Jesus.

How many of the cases referenced in the following links involved a perp who was a druggie, much less a meth head?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/22/us/missing-children-fast-facts/

http://www.crimelibrary.com/blog/tag/child-abduction/index.html

The lifestyle has nothing to do with this specific type of crime.

Here are some documented sources explaining the connection between meth use and violent crime:

Stories from recent years about brutal murders and unreal attacks, all caused by delusional meth users. Mothers killing children, a boyfriend beating a girlfriend to death with a hammer, a woman drowning her baby in a washing machine; all these people were high on meth when they committed these unthinkable crimes.

Going beyond typical murder, these cases show extreme violence and torture. “When you get this type of tragedy, it’s not a surprise that drugs were involved,” said Lt. Mark Salazar, the Fresno Police Department’s homicide commander who investigated the latest of these crimes. “Meth has been a factor in other violent crimes.” (1) The National Drug Intelligence Center claims that meth is a top contributor to crimes and thefts. “It drives more crime than other drugs do. Meth is in its own category, because it’s so much more addictive than other drugs,” said Fresno County Sheriff Margaret Mims. (1)


Psychosis for Meth Users
Meth, which has been called the poor man’s cocaine, is extremely addicting. It gives users a feeling of euphoria and confidence, but after a short time the meth alters the addict’s brain chemistry. They become psychotic, hearing voices and hallucinating. In severe cases, like the violent murders, meth addicts have exhibited schizophrenia-like behavior.

“Once people who are on meth become psychotic, they are very dangerous,” said Dr. Alex Stalcup, who researches meth and works with addicts in California. “They’re completely bonkers; they’re nuts. We’re talking about very extreme alterations of normal brain function.

http://www.treatmentsolutions.com/unspeakable-methamphetamine-crimes/

Should TG made the connection between the possibility of violent reactions and meth? According to this source, Arizona is one of the leading states for meth use and subsequently violent and disturbing crimes:

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2013/06/meth_crime_arizona_top_10_phoenix.php

Oh... and yeah... some of them were praying to Jesus too. Jesus answered and said to drown a child in a puddle. These crimes listed in AZ are VERY disturbing but sadly, they are just the tip of the "ice" berg.

 

[blefuscu]

In this case there was a direct correlation between the drug use and the violent death of a child. JR was staying at that house, he was smoking meth (and not alone in that). The adults were allowing the children to do as they pleased. It has been widely reported they were upstairs (playing uno no doubts, and not partaking in the meth they had been using and abusing for ages). No-one was watching over these kids downstairs. The adults left. Leaving an 8 year old and a 10 year old more or less alone if the mother's story is to be believed. She says she didn't know JR was there, and Ralphy's mam was comotosed upstairs after smoking meth all day with the other adults. When the adults got back from Walmart they attempted to clean up their drugs mess before LE arrived and it tooK 2 hours before anyone phoned 911, by which time Bella was probably dead. So tell me, how did drug use not impact on this child?

 

[Wynnella]

Drug addicts are drug addicts. Child killers are child killers. One isn't necessarily related to the other. By exposing her kids to people such as JJR she might have increased their risk of a lot of bad things, but not necessarily murder.

 

[Ontario Mom]

The lifestyle has nothing to do with this specific type of crime.

I know what you're trying to say but unfortunately this type of crime and drug use simply cannot be separated to the extreme of saying what you're saying because it's simply not true. Especially not in this particular case. Or the one the other day where the dad murdered his 5 kids, or any other case where the murderer was on drugs and did something they'd never done before, as a direct result of the effect of the drugs in their system.

FACT: not all meth users will ever abduct and/or kill someone.
FACT: a child murderer need not be a drug user to also be a child murderer.
FACT: some children and/or adults are killed by drug users due directly to the effects of the drug on the killer's mind.
FACT: while common side effects of meth are known, uncommon or unusual/unpredictable reactions can occur at any time, in any given user. (Such as killing someone when you've never done that before)

In this particular case, drug use and the lifestyle of drug use is 100% at the center of the equation.

 

[news.talk]

Drug addicts are drug addicts. Child killers are child killers. One isn't necessarily related to the other. By exposing her kids to people such as JJR she might have increased their risk of a lot of bad things, but not necessarily murder.

Meth addicts run a *significantly* higher risk of violent psychosis than other drug users. See my post upthread for links.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Where did JJR get the meth from which he claims to have been getting high "all day" in "an upstairs bedroom" or was it in GM's bedroom?

An "all day" meth binge suggests he'd have been in tweek during when he was at WalMart and when LE located him the first time .. no mention of demeanor in currently released documentation. Surely, a drugged appearance would have been noted by LE? We'll see.

I believe JJR was not high (on meth) that evening. I believe JJR acted on something that's been lurking in his brain for some time. Unfortunately, he was presented with an opportunity and he acted.

The meth high claim is a cover. He is not a child (Assumed) rapist murderer, right? He's no 'short eyes'.

 

[news.talk]

Where did JJR get the meth from which he claims to have been getting high "all day" in "an upstairs bedroom" or was it in GM's bedroom?

An "all day" meth binge suggests he'd have been in tweek during when he was at WalMart and when LE located him the first time .. no mention of demeanor in currently released documentation. Surely, a drugged appearance would have been noted by LE? We'll see.

I believe JJR was not high (on meth) that evening. I believe JJR acted on something that's been lurking in his brain for some time. Unfortunately, he was presented with an opportunity and he acted.

The meth high claim is a cover. He is not a child (Assumed) rapist murderer, right? He's no 'short eyes'.

Take a look at the jail intake form from the documents you posted - it states he was under the influence of "other" substance.

One of the news links (sorry can't pull them up right now but it's the one talking about meth usage) had it bulleted while the anchor led the story stating that: Suspect smoked meth all day in Grandmothers room.

As to where he got it - well there is rumor that can't be discussed here but ANY addict can get their drug of choice when they need too. LE also seized a number of electronics still in their packages so it isn't hard to figure out.

ETA: As I have stated multiple times, the suspect has no gain from admitting to meth usage. I have no doubt he was processed for drugs and forensics which will conclusively state either way.

 

[lonetraveler]

That "too distraught" keeps getting me. Several weekends ago my son was involved in a wreck that totaled my car. As soon as J's name popped up on my phone I *knew* what had happened. I froze up briefly and then reach the phone to my husband but I never left his side. I had to hear everything that was said and ask a billion questions (mainly "are you sure you are okay" over and over). I can't imagine completely removing myself from the situation and just hanging out upstairs until someone decided to come clue me in about what 911 said. Who does that?

*my son was fine, the wreck wasn't his fault and I love my new car so all is well


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JMO but maybe any drugs in the home were removed prior to the 911 call. Maybe that was one reason Tania was upstairs at the time of the call. This would not be the first case where the disposal/hiding/removal of drugs occurred prior to the 911 call.

 

[vasportsmom]

JMO but maybe any drugs in the home were removed prior to the 911 call. Maybe that was one reason Tania was upstairs at the time of the call. This would not be the first case where the disposal/hiding/removal of drugs occurred prior to the 911 call.

"Distraught" at all the drugs that needed to be flushed before LE showed up?

O/T: I like to play Devil's Advocate as much as the next person but a good rule of thumb is if you can't utter your defense with a straight face or you can't find a single link to back up your "facts" then you should probably move on.




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[MzOpinion8d]

It states its his attorney's number.

I'm glad they're doing this. It means they're taking reports serious. Several people have commented elsewhere on skeptical things Rector supposedly told people. It could also show if he was attempting to put together a back up. I wonder, can they pull transcripts of the calls if they were done from inside of a jail? Those lines are recorded, right? I think visitation calls (visits where a window separates the visitor from the inmate) could be recorded as well, or no? I think this is being said bc it's going around that Rector told someone he only helped with the burial... This was all over social media and comments on news articles, all were reported to the police.

It states it's his attorney's number because they want all records EXCEPT those calls with the attorney. The attorney calls and visits are the only ones that are confidential. They want the calls with everyone else he has spoken to or had visits from.

 

[Amster]

"Distraught" at all the drugs that needed to be flushed before LE showed up?

O/T: I like to play Devil's Advocate as much as the next person but a good rule of thumb is if you can't utter your defense with a straight face or you can't find a single link to back up your "facts" then you should probably move on.




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But devil's advocates LOVE the attention! I've found that if they aren't getting the attention....they scamper away!