Found Deceased AZ - Isabella Grogan-Cannella, 8, Bullhead City, 2 September 2014 - #4

[Jersey*Girl]

It states it's his attorney's number because they want all records EXCEPT those calls with the attorney. The attorney calls and visits are the only ones that are confidential. They want the calls with everyone else he has spoken to or had visits from.

I thought that was a given and self explanatory. My response was in answer of a question pertaining to whose number it was. Yes, of course they want all call logs, etc. Thank gosh they asked for this bc apparently he was telling some of his visitors &/or friends stuff that he didn't tell police at first...at least that's what I gathered from one of the Bella pages. Lotsa lotsa chatter...

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Drug addicts are drug addicts. Child killers are child killers. One isn't necessarily related to the other. By exposing her kids to people such as JJR she might have increased their risk of a lot of bad things, but not necessarily murder.

Not to promote mass disagreements or anything but this is some serious misinformation. This isn't directed at you, it's just that this has been said by several people that just think they know or read something so post as if its fact so I'm addressing it as a whole. Various drugs can absolutely turn a person into someone they may not normally be. Certain drugs especially can cause hallucinations and make a person violent. Some drugs most definitely can make a user kill. People can think all they want that the person would have had to have an underlying issue in order to act on it while on drugs. This isn't always necessarily the case. Sometimes sure, but just not always.

Sometimes people post like professionals but its incredibly important to note that unless it says Verified Such & Such under their monicker, then it's their opinion plain and simple and should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

It's ridiculous to me that Tania has lost her kids more than once and now she's lost Bella forever. Losing the first time you'd think she'd have learned my gosh. Now a little girl is dead, never coming back to offer second chances to her mother...

Something to think about - If Bella died from accidentally ingesting illegal drugs while in her mother's home under her mother's care then her mother would be arrested no doubt, maybe even the other inhabitants of the house too. If she'd have died from doing the same thing but the drugs were from a known drug user friend of her parents that was staying in their house then the parents could be arrested as well as the friend. So why is it that a known criminal with drug problems and violence problems, known to be staying with them for a few days, sleeping downstairs where the girls' bed was, he kills Bella - yet it's hard to believe in some way the mom might not face charges down the road sometime? Doesn't make any bit of sense.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I never made such a claim. The point is introducing such an element does not increases the SPECIFIC risk of abduction / (assumed rape) / murder, the crimes committed in this case.

Waitasec... He's also a thief, right? Plus he kidnapped (stole) Bella, and maybe even stole her virginity. That's pretty specific.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Wow , I've missed a lot . Been busy with my own life ... Lol... Can anyone recap what happened today in court ?

Me too & still trying to catch up!

 

[Jersey*Girl]

This link was probably already posted but I'm curious why the DA is waiting for DNA results to come back before he decides to go for the dp or not. If she was raped, does it change the fact that she was killed? No. So is he waiting for results to make sure Rector is the killer, the only killer? Or does being raped make the killing more heinous? Serious question bc I don't understand. Is this for legal reasons or something? Is it easier to seek the dp in a case involving rape & murder instead of just murder?

http://www.mohavedailynews.com/news...ebc-4164-11e4-be12-43538edfe96a.html?mode=jqm

Jantzen told Rector, 26, that if he is convicted of the murder charge, he faces life in prison with or without parole after 35 years. He also may face the death penalty. Deputy Mohave County Attorney Greg McPhillips has not decided whether to seek the death penalty against Rector, waiting until DNA results come back from FBI labs. That could take several more weeks.

 

[newone]

This link wasre able already posted but I'm curious why the DA is waiting for DNA results to come back before he decides to go for the dp or not. If she was raped, does it change the fact that she was killed? No. So is he waiting for results to make sure Rector is the killer, the only killer? Or does being raped make the killing more heinous?

http://www.mohavedailynews.com/news...ebc-4164-11e4-be12-43538edfe96a.html?mode=jqm

dna needed to determine whether accused or another was responsible and possible additional charges.....

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Early in these threads it seemed (IMO) that some posts were heck-bent on making the connection that since JJR is a drug abuser that he would be likely to commit this crime and that TG should have known.

My ONLY contention is that by and of itself, JJR's drug abuse is not an indication he would be likely to commit the specific crime described in this case: Child Abduction and Murder.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/pr/201316.pdf

Referencing the linked document, "Case Management for Missing Children - Homicide Investigation", it is indisputable that JJR (as we have come to know him in this case) embodies the description of a Child Abduction Killer. Most characteristics are applicable to JJR, with exceptions: JJR is not a 'stranger' to the victim and JJR is not a 'construction worker' (AFAIK).

The significant point presented in the document:

69% of Child Abduction Killer cases involve a Sexual Motive, compared to only 5% of all murders and 14% of child murders.

Based on the Case Management documentation and what we know in this case, IMO: JJR committed the crime of child abduction and murder of Isabella because there was a sexual motivation, the opportunity and no guardian immediately present at the time.

The primary motivating factor of this type of crime is a "Sexual Motivation", regardless of other of mental state of the Child Abduction Killer and whether or not he is 'high'. The Child Abduction Killer could just as easily be sober.


30% :Child Abduction Murders Involve Classic Kidnapping.


This is 15 times greater than in all child murders and 30 times greater than in murders in general -- it is one of the defining characteristics of child abduction murders

Personal Problems Of Child Abduction Killers:
---------------------------------------------
42% :Sexual Problems.
30% :Alcohol Problems.
27% : Drug Problems.
23% :Mental Problems.

There are three basic elements in a crime:
------------------------------------------
1) A motivated offender.
2) The opportunity to commit the crime.
3) Ineffective guardians.

How The Killer Chose His Victim:
--------------------------------
57% :Victim Of Opportunity.
15% rior Relationship With The Victim.
14% hysical Characteristics.
13% :Specific Motivation.

"Personal Problems" are behaviors of the Child Abduction Killer, not the motivation. Such behaviors are exhibited in many other people who are not Child Abduction Killers. Some may argue a 'meth high' instigated this crime ..but note: a meth high is a behavior of the killer, not the motivation for the crime.

In the following attached PDF I provide page numbers and highlight details from the Case Management document that present the reasoning behind my conclusion that JJR is a Child Abduction Killer who exhibits behavior of drug use, and not vice versa: View attachment Grogan Case - crime analysis 2.pdf

 

[Magdalyn]

My ONLY contention is that by and of itself, JJR's drug abuse is not an indication he would be likely to commit the specific crime described in this case: Child Abduction and Murder.

I never made such a claim. The point is introducing such an element does not increases the SPECIFIC risk of abduction / (assumed rape) / murder, the crimes committed in this case.

JJR's crime is not inherent in those who choose the lifestyle attributed to the individuals related to this case. Everyone simply wants to condemn TG and company because they are druggies, burglars, etc.

The LIFESTYLE in which TG and friends engage has nothing to do with the crime committed by JJR.

The last quote posted above is the original point the other posters are arguing against. Your point appears to have changed. Your original point is that the lifestyle they engaged in had nothing to do with the crime that was committed by JJR. That is a specific statement about the specific criminal and a specific victim in the specific environment. Not general.

Speaking to the specific crime that happened on Sept 2nd/3rd with JRR/Bella/TG/RF et all: Most will argue, if TG were not living this lifestyle, JJR would never have even met TG, and would not have had the opportunity to be anywhere near Bella, let alone kill her. If he'd not met Bella, she would be alive today. For the two things: [1]drug/criminal lifestyle, [2]Bella's murder, to have nothing to do with one another, Bella would have to have been raised in the drug/felon lifestyle, but killed by a stranger intruder while the family was home, sleeping, or at least consciously watching their children, having not partied upstairs all day. That is not the case. The lifestyle, in this case, happened to be the one thing that made this guy being in their house, hanging with their kids, okay. Made this guy being with their children, out of their eyesight, okay. It doesn't matter that TG couldn't have known he was a potential child killer. He was a known drug user and a known felon. JJR could not get a job at a child care facility with his record, nor could he get a job at an elementary school. TG's standards of care for her children should be as high or higher than that of a public school or a private business. That CPS has since pulled her off that job speaks volumes.

The goal post then was moved to 'by and of itself JJR's drug abuse is not an indication he would be likely to commit the specific crime described in this case.'

That is a completely different argument and not the point of your original post, the one that spawned all the discussion which, as the goal posts keep being moved, will apparently go on in perpetuity.

Your original post sub-point appears to have been (and is an overarching issue you bring up often) that "Everyone simply wants to condemn TG and company because they are druggies, burglars, etc."

Well, yes, of course people do. They are criminals. Criminals and drug addicts raising children. These are people who should not be working with children, let alone raising them.The law condemns them, and so do most citizens in a law abiding society. That posters are being condemned for condemning a mother who is raising children while living a lifestyle among drug addicts and criminals, and this same mother has embraced this violent drug addict felon as 'family' and had him babysit her children....condemning condemnation of that is an interesting concept. Condemning those who condemn the condemnable. While it is within TOS. Not grasping that concept.

This too, IMO, is a discussion point that, according to past history, will live on to be discussed in perpetuity as well.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Early in these threads it seemed (IMO) that some posts were heck-bent on making the connection that since JJR is a drug abuser that he would be likely to commit this crime and that TG should have known.

My ONLY contention is that by and of itself, JJR's drug abuse is not an indication he would be likely to commit the specific crime described in this case: Child Abduction and Murder.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/pr/201316.pdf

Referencing the linked document, "Case Management for Missing Children - Homicide Investigation", it is indisputable that JJR (as we have come to know him in this case) embodies the description of a Child Abduction Killer. Most characteristics are applicable to JJR, with exceptions: JJR is not a 'stranger' to the victim and JJR is not a 'construction worker' (AFAIK).

The significant point presented in the document:



Based on the Case Management documentation and what we know in this case, IMO: JJR committed the crime of child abduction and murder of Isabella because there was a sexual motivation, the opportunity and no guardian immediately present at the time.

The primary motivating factor of this type of crime is a "Sexual Motivation", regardless of other of mental state of the Child Abduction Killer and whether or not he is 'high'. The Child Abduction Killer could just as easily be sober.


30% :Child Abduction Murders Involve Classic Kidnapping.


This is 15 times greater than in all child murders and 30 times greater than in murders in general -- it is one of the defining characteristics of child abduction murders



"Personal Problems" are behaviors of the Child Abduction Killer, not the motivation. Such behaviors are exhibited in many other people who are not Child Abduction Killers. Some may argue a 'meth high' instigated this crime ..but note: a meth high is a behavior of the killer, not the motivation for the crime.

In the following attached PDF I provide page numbers and highlight details from the Case Management document that present the reasoning behind my conclusion that JJR is a Child Abduction Killer who exhibits behavior of drug use, and not vice versa: View attachment 59613

RSBBM. This is being made to seem as though it is a fact that absolutely could not happen. It's incredibly misleading and wrong bc meth & some other choice drugs most certainly can make people do heinous things. Sure, sometimes users may have underlying issues but sometimes they may not. This guy has been on drugs for years. Look at all the bath salt creepy crimes that have happened in recent years just to get an idea of how whacked out people can get. I only used bath salts as an example bc people hooked on meth that couldn't score it have been known to use bath salts - so literally it's only an example. There's multiple stuff in meth, various levels of it too, and depending what it's cut with could make a person go loopy...especially if its cut with something that doesn't mix with a user's chemistry. There's also various effects based on a person's level of drug use, their chemical makeup, if they do or don't have an underlying issue, etc. We are not doctors treating Rector as a subject so we can only speculate. Taking from a broad spectrum study to diagnose this specific person as fact is wrong and misleading imvho, especially considering your post insinuates she was kidnapped and then killed. Well what about if she was raped then kidnapped then murdered? Or what about if he was starting to molest her but took her away to finish when something jarred in him that he could be caught but he was stuck in his meth high that he couldn't think f anything else, then murdered her to cover up the rape? Heck, what about if she's not even raped at all? What about if she didn't even walk to where she was buried, afterall we haven't heard of any other footprints except for Justin's taped shoes, which would suggest she was carried or drug there? If that's the case, then she could have been killed, maybe even strangled with his hands for whatever reason during the time they were playing hide & seek while e sister was in the bathroom. My own personal train of thought is that he started to molest her but she started to scream, so he strangled her as a reaction and she died, then he realized what he did and huried away to a place where he could hide her. I believe meth has every bit of everything to do with Bella's death.

Why is it so hard to think it had nothing to do with why he did what he did? If drugs & alcohol can affect a person's liver, kidneys, lungs, skin, other body parts as well - then why is it so hard to understand that they do in fact affect the brain as well?

Last I heard the Viagra brand was made famous bc their drug has been proven to affect a certain organ.

In closing, abuse of certain drugs absolutely can affect a person and either help or make them do certain bad & harmful things. Everytime a person drops a hit of acid it leaves a mark on their brain that never goes away. Alcohol can do liver damage, smoking anything can cause lung damage. The list goes on. The brain is an organ. It most certainly can be damaged from meth. Just sayin'...

 

[vasportsmom]

But devil's advocates LOVE the attention! I've found that if they aren't getting the attention....they scamper away!

Thank you, I needed that reminder. This is such a short and simple statement but it is 100% accurate.


Back to Bella - As a country we MUST stop letting parents by with failing their kids in such devastating ways. Tania, Rayne, Jim & Denise ...the list goes on and on, as does the corresponding list of dead children. Employees are fired for poor job performance if they drop the ball more than once or twice. Pet owners land in jail for neglecting their pets with far less tragic outcomes yet CPS and LE give parents chance after chance with their children. Why? Perhaps it is time to scrape the current CPS system and ask PETA or the Humane Society to recreate it. At the very least our children are entitled to the same protection as a stray animal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jersey*Girl]

To put an end to it already...there's lots of good info at the following link.

http://www.elementsbehavioralhealth...en-methamphetamine-use-paranoia-and-violence/

Snipped:
Aggression and Violence

Together with decreased behavioral control inside the pre-frontal cortex, the presence of anxiety, fear, terror or panic set the stage for unpredictable episodes of aggression and violence in habitual meth users. The potential for these behaviors is also tied to the onset of a disorder called methamphetamine-induced psychosis. People with this disorder develop psychotic symptoms that can include auditory (sound-based) or visual hallucinations, as well as various forms of delusional thinking. In some cases, this delusional thinking involves paranoid fixations, and people in the grips of psychosis have a clear capacity to turn aggressive or violent.

Methamphetamine-induced psychosis is an officially recognized psychiatric disorder that can last for a period of days, months or (in relatively rare cases) years, even in the absence of continued meth use. However, the brain changes associated with habitual meth use also appear in people who don’t develop clinical psychosis, and any long-term methamphetamine user can experience bouts of paranoia-fueled aggressive or violent behavior.

 

[claudicici]

The last quote posted above is the original point the other posters are arguing against. Your point appears to have changed. Your original point is that the lifestyle they engaged in had nothing to do with the crime that was committed by JJR. That is a specific statement about the specific criminal and a specific victim in the specific environment. Not general.

Speaking to the specific crime that happened on Sept 2nd/3rd with JRR/Bella/TG/RF et all: Most will argue, if TG were not living this lifestyle, JJR would never have even met TG, and would not have had the opportunity to be anywhere near Bella, let alone kill her. If he'd not met Bella, she would be alive today. For the two things: [1]drug/criminal lifestyle, [2]Bella's murder, to have nothing to do with one another, Bella would have to have been raised in the drug/felon lifestyle, but killed by a stranger intruder while the family was home, sleeping, or at least consciously watching their children, having not partied upstairs all day. That is not the case. The lifestyle, in this case, happened to be the one thing that made this guy being in their house, hanging with their kids, okay. Made this guy being with their children, out of their eyesight, okay. It doesn't matter that TG couldn't have known he was a potential child killer. He was a known drug user and a known felon. JJR could not get a job at a child care facility with his record, nor could he get a job at an elementary school. TG's standards of care for her children should be as high or higher than that of a public school or a private business. That CPS has since pulled her off that job speaks volumes.

The goal post then was moved to 'by and of itself JJR's drug abuse is not an indication he would be likely to commit the specific crime described in this case.'

That is a completely different argument and not the point of your original post, the one that spawned all the discussion which, as the goal posts keep being moved, will apparently go on in perpetuity.

Your original post sub-point appears to have been (and is an overarching issue you bring up often) that "Everyone simply wants to condemn TG and company because they are druggies, burglars, etc."

Well, yes, of course people do. They are criminals. Criminals and drug addicts raising children. These are people who should not be working with children, let alone raising them.The law condemns them, and so do most citizens in a law abiding society. That posters are being condemned for condemning a mother who is raising children while living a lifestyle among drug addicts and criminals, and this same mother has embraced this violent drug addict felon as 'family' and had him babysit her children....condemning condemnation of that is an interesting concept. Condemning those who condemn the condemnable. While it is within TOS. Not grasping that concept.

This too, IMO, is a discussion point that, according to past history, will live on to be discussed in perpetuity as well.

Looking through SM I don't think that is true.He has known them all their lives,literally like family.It seems like everyone around them is either a drug user or involved in various other illegal activities.That is the only lifestyle TG knew,it is her surrounding ,that's why I understand TO HER,he was no threat,he was just like everyone else.I understand why we all are enraged about it ,I am as well,but I know a lot of people that simply don't know anything else ,in my neighborhood Meth is an epidemic I know people that have been doing it for decades,it's sad and tragic but they are not any more likely to murder and possibly rape a child than you or me.Would I ever invite them into my home or have them around my child,of course not

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Looking through SM I don't think that is true.He has known them all their lives,literally like family.It seems like everyone around them is either a drug user or involved in various other illegal activities.That is the only lifestyle TG knew,it is her surrounding ,that's why I understand TO HER,he was no threat,he was just like everyone else.I understand why we all are enraged about it ,I am as well,but I know a lot of people that simply don't know anything else ,in my neighborhood Meth is an epidemic I know people that have been doing it for decades,it's sad and tragic but they are not any more likely to murder and possibly rape a child than you or me.Would I ever invite them into my home or have them around my child,of course not

I agree with you with one exception - meth abuse can make a person do things they normally wouldn't otherwise do. It can affect people in different ways depending on not only how long they've used but also by the chemical compounds used in cutting it. When certain chems mix with a person's certain chemical & biological makeup, it can produce various levels of heightened experiences - one of which includes violence, another euphoria. Not all the time does the euphoria happen at the beginning of their high...that also can depend on their drug usage.

Here in my town heroin is bad. Meth has been creeping in for a couple years now. Our school actually has 2 major drug awareness events during school nights that is open to our community to learn the effects of various drugs. We always have the head of narcotics come in to speak, as well as a DEA agent and some FBI. Meth is one of the things they covered the last time I went and I'll scan the info they handed out. One of the things that stuck with me is a video they showed of a true person in the middle of a meth rage caught on some kind of security camera - went right up to a person in a car stopped in the street and punched their window out. Omg! Totally unprovoked. Sometimes drugs can have a pleasant effect but sometimes it can be very bad and harmful to others. It's not something that can be predicted by comparing to others. It's definitely something that is a nationwide epidemic at the moment.

The thing is, even though this is the life Tania was so used to, she's also been arrested for drugs. Her ex has been arrested for drugs. Her husband/boyfriend has been arrested for drugs. The majority of her inner circle have drug arrests in their backgrounds. She's known Rector for years so has to know of his arrests. She's lost her kids more than once. Her own brother gave her a piece of his mind about moving Bella all over among other things. Her own brother at one point asked her what have you done now and something about his niece better be ok or whatever. So Tania definitely knew right from wrong bc she was reprimanded for it and has been around those that were arrested for that as well as violence charges and were reprimanded. So since she knew right from wrong, and knew of violent tendencies in the past, she should have known better. IMVHO she just didn't care.

 

[Magdalyn]

Claudicici said: (sorry, having issues with the quoting feature)

Looking through SM I don't think that is true.He has known them all their lives,literally like family.It seems like everyone around them is either a drug user or involved in various other illegal activities.That is the only lifestyle TG knew,it is her surrounding ,that's why I understand TO HER,he was no threat,he was just like everyone else.I understand why we all are enraged about it ,I am as well,but I know a lot of people that simply don't know anything else ,in my neighborhood Meth is an epidemic I know people that have been doing it for decades,it's sad and tragic but they are not any more likely to murder and possibly rape a child than you or me.Would I ever invite them into my home or have them around my child,of course not

Not being snarky, here, but what part of my post specifically do you think 'is not true'? (It was a long post, lol!)

Speaking to TG being allegedly unaware her lifestyle was not compatible with safely raising children, and going only by SM, as you did in your post, she has self reportedly had issues with custody of her children in the past. She has friends who have as well. Those who have had child custody issues through the courts, and have had CPS involved in their children's lives, all know what is expected of them, what environment their children should be in/not be in, no matter if their conscience doesn't tremor at the thought of someone like JJR being around their children. She chose to marry a felon recently, and hang with druggies and felons, leaving a sleeping grandmother to 'watch' over a still awake 8 and 10 year old after partying all day. That they made a point that there was an adult home with the kids (grandma) on the 911 call, but omitted mentioning JJR to the operator or police, even though he was their life-long friend-like-family who spent the day at their house, tells us they are very aware of what should have been, and what doesn't look good, and what (in their minds) should be hidden if they don't want to get in trouble.

TG is also very aware she has provided for her children in ways that "are legal or not". She is aware of what's considered bad by society and the law, no matter how she was raised. "How I was raised" is not an acceptable explanation for being unaware of ways you could be endangering your children, especially if child custody and/or CPS has been in question in the past.

"How I chose to live" despite all that is an acceptable explanation.

People who live that way do not live every aspect of their lives in a bubble, away on some island, unaware of what's right and wrong in our society, what is considered not compatible with raising children. They are as aware of us 'squares' and the silly rules we follow, just as we are aware of the way they ignore laws, neglect their children, and embrace the drug and criminal lifestyle. Imo!

 

[Magdalyn]

The thing is, even though this is the life Tania was so used to, she's also been arrested for drugs. Her ex has been arrested for drugs. Her husband/boyfriend has been arrested for drugs. The majority of her inner circle have drug arrests in their backgrounds. She's known Rector for years so has to know of his arrests. She's lost her kids more than once. Her own brother gave her a piece of his mind about moving Bella all over among other things. Her own brother at one point asked her what have you done now and something about his niece better be ok or whatever. So Tania definitely knew right from wrong bc she was reprimanded for it and has been around those that were arrested for that as well as violence charges and were reprimanded. So since she knew right from wrong, and knew of violent tendencies in the past, she should have known better. IMVHO she just didn't care.

RS&BBM

This! (I need you to edit my posts down for me. )

Regarding the BBM, she DID know better, IMO, which explains the lapse in time reporting a missing child (illegal activity clean-up), the implication the children were left at home with a babysitter (grandma) and the fact that TG and RF BOTH happened to have forgotten to mention JJR's presence at the house at all either to 911 or LE. As far as going through their day with LE, or any ideas where she could be, he just completely slipped their mind. Their good family friend who was staying there. And was with them all day. Pfft! Just gone from the brain.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I thought that was a given and self explanatory. My response was in answer of a question pertaining to whose number it was. Yes, of course they want all call logs, etc. Thank gosh they asked for this bc apparently he was telling some of his visitors &/or friends stuff that he didn't tell police at first...at least that's what I gathered from one of the Bella pages. Lotsa lotsa chatter...

Sorry, I may have misinterpreted a post someone else made. I thought someone was saying they wanted to subpoena the calls with the attorney so the prosecution could know the defense strategy. My excuse it that it was late and I was medicated with a muscle relaxer so my brain must have been malfunctioning =)

 

[Magdalyn]

Looking through SM I don't think that is true.He has known them all their lives,literally like family.It seems like everyone around them is either a drug user or involved in various other illegal activities.That is the only lifestyle TG knew,it is her surrounding ,that's why I understand TO HER,he was no threat,he was just like everyone else.I understand why we all are enraged about it ,I am as well,but I know a lot of people that simply don't know anything else ,in my neighborhood Meth is an epidemic I know people that have been doing it for decades,it's sad and tragic but they are not any more likely to murder and possibly rape a child than you or me.Would I ever invite them into my home or have them around my child,of course not

BBM:

Drug addicts are more likely to neglect/harm/abuse the children that they know than non-drug addicts. That is enough reason to criticize parents who are addicts, and who raise children in this environment.

One-third to two-thirds of child maltreatment cases involve substance use to some degree. 11

•In one study, children whose parents abuse alcohol and other drugs were three times more likely to be abused and more than four times more likely to be neglected than children from non-abusing families. 11

•As many as two-thirds of the people in treatment for drug abuse reported being abused or neglected as children. 9

•More than a third of adolescents with a report of abuse or neglect will have a substance use disorder before their 18th birthday, three times as likely as those without a report of abuse or neglect.12

http://www.childhelp.org/pages/statistics/

The argument isn't that TG should have known JJR would murder Bella. It's that she knew he was a violent drug using felon and she allowed him around her children. One child happened to die while TG was actively partaking in this lifestyle, at the hands of someone who is also a part of this lifestyle.

The statistic has proven out.



For further reading:

http://pediatrics.uchicago.edu/chie...sClinicsarticlesubstanceabuseandchildmalt.pdf

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Sorry, I may have misinterpreted a post someone else made. I thought someone was saying they wanted to subpoena the calls with the attorney so the prosecution could know the defense strategy. My excuse it that it was late and I was medicated with a muscle relaxer so my brain must have been malfunctioning =)

Lol, hang in there MzOpinion8d. :hug: Tension is high in crimes against children's cases, especially a case like this one where there were obvious known legal parental issues, and the threads move fast so things kind of jump around. So so sooo many of us are sick and tired of these things happening to innocent little children.

 

[Ontario Mom]

The thing is, if anyone knows how abruptly a meth user can go from "same guy we've always known" to "whoa, he just completely flipped" it's a fellow meth user. They've seen it & they've heard it. It's part & parcel of the life. They know it's possible, they know it happens, they just care more about the meth than getting themselves and their kids away from it, and those who use it.

TG and her crew are no exception.