Found Deceased AZ - Jerold Williams, 5, Jacob Lake, 6 Aug 2015

[rkf]

Yeah, the two different code sources were confusing. I bookmarked both since they're handy. Anyway, I went back and I think the difference is that one source was from a sar training manual (although from southern Arizona) and the other one was from the Maricopa county sheriff's office computer codes.

You'd think the codes would be universal, at least throughout the U.S. but apparently some agencies have their own inter-office codes. What I couldn't find was any manuals for all sar. If you run across one, let me know.

And yes, I hope little Jerold died quickly. Sadly though I've managed to educate myself a little too much and I don't think his end was peaceful. The thought of him out in the middle of nowhere, all alone is too much to bear. His poor mother - I can't imagine the pain.

Another poster provided this in the last few days. Search and Rescue Council, Inc. Orientation Manual http://www.sarci.org/srdi/members/SARCI Manual.pdf

 

[rkf]

I remember reading that the heat coming off the trees interfered with the heat sensors on the helicopters that first night. Another factor in that "perfect storm." They might have found him that first night if they were able to use the heat sensors.

As somebody else mentioned, I hope he just curled up and went to sleep.

It gets so hot that the fallen trees and rocks hold on to the heat through the night. There has to be enough differentiation between the body temperature of the person their seeking and the items around him/her. I think the hot trees/rocks definitely interfered with that part of the search. I wonder if the rains would have cooled off the surroundings enough to find Jerold if he was still alive the second night.

 

[MsMarple]

Another poster provided this in the last few days. Search and Rescue Council, Inc. Orientation Manual http://www.sarci.org/srdi/members/SARCI Manual.pdf

That was me, unless someone else posted it too. It covers southern Arizona, primarily Pima county. What I can't figure out is whether the information holds for all sar teams. I would hope so. But aside from that it's got good info on how sar teams organize searches for missing people. It's worth reading.

 

[Eileen730]

"What gets me more is that Jerold was only 15-20 feet off of forest service road 240."

I'm looking at all the maps people have created (good job) as well as my own and I'm pretty confused at this point.
I'm not certain we have completely accurate information, well incomplete anyway.
Because the statement says they think he followed FR 240 to FR 241 then proceeded away from the campsite.
How would he have been found by people driving on 240 then?

Wouldn't they be yelling to him and would he NOT hear them?

How long was it before MOM noticed him missing?

This poor child I cant even begin to imagine!

 

[Eileen730]

maybe I'm alone...still not buying any of this. he can't wander four miles and die (with vomit in my throat as I say it) with 20 people on foot (larger and older than him) in four hours, nor with 1,000 persons on foot, horse, helicopter, and air force within five days over 21 miles. and a pickup full of Colorado city folk simply "spotted him" on the side of the road? am I losing it? don't answer that. read my posts on the deorr kunz page. this simply isn't possible. in my obviously stupid naïve and ignorant opinion. this might just be my last missing child case.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=35917624&nid=148&fm=most_popular&s_cid=popular-5

"Blair said the boy's body was found around 4:30 p.m. Monday by a group of volunteer searchers from Colorado City.

The group was driving in a pickup truck along Forest Service Road 240 when they spotted a body on the ground around 15 to 20 feet off the road.

The body was found nearly 4 miles from the place the boy was last seen.

"Because Jerold was found close to the road and the road would have been a natural walking area for him compared to the very thick brush, it is believed that Jerold probably found his way to Forest Road 240 and followed it to Forest Road 241 in the direction away from the campsite and may have walked off into the forest to lay down to rest," Blair said.

Authorities said more than 1,000 people helped in the search over five days that covered about 21 square miles."

Im right there with you!

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Do you guys think if LE would have been called sooner the outcome would have been different? Didn't seem to matter in DeOrr's case.


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I think it would have made a difference in this case if LE had been called sooner. I don't think it would have made any difference at all in DeOrr's case, because I don't believe it happened the way they've said it did.

 

[AmyPond]

That looks more than 4 miles in a straight line from camp. Maybe we don't have the camp coordinates right.

I also don't see 240 on the map. It's not titled. Could they have been camping off 240, rather than 241? Also that seems like it goes up the mountain. Does it?

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I wondered this as well. The way they mentioned the roads...makes me think the camp was closer to 240. I'm not sure it was ever completely known where the camp site was.

 

[AmyPond]

So it stormed the first night and that supposedly killed him? I don't really understand the "inclement weather" contributing to the COD here.

I am thinking maybe it was quite hot, he was in long-sleeves with long underwear, and he walked a lot, with no water.

 

[fabvab]

So the mother wasn't able to positively ID him? So now they need to check dental records and fingerprints? Most children don't have fingerprints on file, do they? Do the authorities not believe the parents that this kid is 'Jerold Williams? Was he unrecognizable? I think this is weird in addition to waiting until Wed. Maybe the community/family wanted him sent to a ME in their community? Have the parents names been mentioned yet?

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Would they have dental records? Are they allowed to see a dentist...I just read where they aren't allowed to learn to swim. Just asking. I'm trying to catch up on the thread and apologize if already asked.

 

[azure]

Deceased persons are found by their family and friends surprisingly often. The most heart-wrenching case I can think of as a case in point is Linnea Lomax. I am trying to be mindful of this and not to be suspicious of the likely FLDS connection.

However, I think LE is being very pat in saying, basically, there is evidence he died the first night and we can't find a COD so he probably died of exposure the first night. Exposure how? Dehydration? Hyperthermia? Is the ditch something that fills up with water and he did drown? In what way would the storms have contributed to his death?

If LE goes silent in this case after this, I will be disappointed.

 

[fabvab]

JMO. I guess that I am among very few who find this story VERY fishy. Only the child was a considerable distance from the camp? And he was chasing grasshoppers? And with nothing else to distract her, she lost sight of the child? And her voice did not carry and neither did the child's? A reasonable explanation could be that he was bitten by a snake, or spider or scorpion, if they are at that elevation, but I keep wondering if he was taken away from the group to be disciplined. And not necessarily by the mother. Just my opinion.

The dark circles under his eyes in this pic bothered me. He was a cutie, but he didn't look well in this pic. I guess it could be allergies, hereditary, etc b

 

[flourish]

I have no idea, but I believe one can object to autopsy. I'm not sure what the views are in the FLDS church.

Religious objections to autopsy occur in both medicolegal- and hospital (clinical)-based autopsies. For clinical autopsies the purpose is generally to investigate the cause of death and extent of natural disease, and consent must be granted by the next-of-kin in order for an autopsy to occur. When permission for an autopsy is declined for any reason, including religious objections, the autopsy is not done.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1705993-overview#a1

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Hmm... I was told I didn't have to consent for my toddler to be autopsied in Idaho. In fact, I was told since there was a criminal investigation, it would happen even if I actively opposed. Huh. Blech.

 

[Jules71]

I don't think he died the first night either. Once it got dark, Jerold was probably really scared, didn't quite know what to do, and wandered around for a bit trying to find his way back to the campsite. Isn't this what anyone would do? How long did he do this?

I'm not sure how he found the road, but it was a good thing rather than wandering thru the dark forest where it definitely would be more frightening to a 5 year old. JMO. Upon finding the road, he may have been excited, however, the further he walked and saw no signs of help, he slowed down.

By this time, he was thirsty, hungry, more afraid, wanting his mommy, tired, and unable to walk his normal speed. Add all this together and 8.5 miles is a long walk in the middle of the night for this 5 year old. I believe an article said it rained the first 36-48 hours? If so, this would make his traveling time much slower My thoughts are he reached his resting spot, exhausted, laid down and went peacefully in his sleep.

And it was also posted in msm (and scanner thread as well) that they found evidence of a place he may have bedded down at some point. Wonder where that was in reference to his final spot.

Eta: An area was also found where somebody had bedded down for the night; but, again, it is not known at this time whether that somebody was the little boy.

http://www.kcsg.com/view/full_story...or-5-year-old-Jerold--family-asks-for-prayers

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[flourish]

Would they have dental records? Are they allowed to see a dentist...I just read where they aren't allowed to learn to swim. Just asking. I'm trying to catch up on the thread and apologize if already asked.

Do you remember off-hand where you read the info about swimming? Tia

 

[Tillicum]

I've been too heartbroken to say anything before now but I'm wondering if little Jerold may have had some hearing loss that had been undetected. My youngest has slight hearing loss and for several years I thought he just wasn't paying attention. It could explain why he didn't respond the first four hours when he was close enough to hear them searching and probably calling for him.

 

[SunGirl]

maybe I'm alone...still not buying any of this. he can't wander four miles and die (with vomit in my throat as I say it) with 20 people on foot (larger and older than him) in four hours, nor with 1,000 persons on foot, horse, helicopter, and air force within five days over 21 miles. and a pickup full of Colorado city folk simply "spotted him" on the side of the road? am I losing it? don't answer that. read my posts on the deorr kunz page. this simply isn't possible. in my obviously stupid naïve and ignorant opinion. this might just be my last missing child case.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=35917624&nid=148&fm=most_popular&s_cid=popular-5

"Blair said the boy's body was found around 4:30 p.m. Monday by a group of volunteer searchers from Colorado City.

The group was driving in a pickup truck along Forest Service Road 240 when they spotted a body on the ground around 15 to 20 feet off the road.

The body was found nearly 4 miles from the place the boy was last seen.

"Because Jerold was found close to the road and the road would have been a natural walking area for him compared to the very thick brush, it is believed that Jerold probably found his way to Forest Road 240 and followed it to Forest Road 241 in the direction away from the campsite and may have walked off into the forest to lay down to rest," Blair said.

Authorities said more than 1,000 people helped in the search over five days that covered about 21 square miles."

Hello, I agree and have been reading this post on little Jerold, may he RIP. Live in North AZ and as a mom I wonder a few things. Steelman's map was very good, maybe I missed it up-thread but is the exact location of the family camp known? I didn't find that in press. Maybe their camp was a further bit up the road? Jerold was found "along" the other road by the Colorado City residents, how is it that he walked 4-8 miles in one afternoon/night, and no one heard or saw him, or vice versa?

 

[SunGirl]

How frightening, if Jerold didn't have good hearing at 5 years old wouldn't the mother and family have either known this and/or told LEO this immediately? Who is the mother? And father? Why hasn't this information been mentioned?

How frightening, I hope all is better now. If Jerold didn't have good hearing at 5 years old wouldn't the mother and family have either known this and/or told LEO this immediately? Who is the mother? And father? Why hasn't this information been mentioned?

 

[rkf]

That was me, unless someone else posted it too. It covers southern Arizona, primarily Pima county. What I can't figure out is whether the information holds for all sar teams. I would hope so. But aside from that it's got good info on how sar teams organize searches for missing people. It's worth reading.

Oops! Sorry! At least I didn't tell you your own joke...

It is chock-full of interesting info. I'm saving it for future reference. Thank you for posting it.

 

[gitana1]

maybe I'm alone...still not buying any of this. he can't wander four miles and die (with vomit in my throat as I say it) with 20 people on foot (larger and older than him) in four hours, nor with 1,000 persons on foot, horse, helicopter, and air force within five days over 21 miles. and a pickup full of Colorado city folk simply "spotted him" on the side of the road? am I losing it? don't answer that. read my posts on the deorr kunz page. this simply isn't possible. in my obviously stupid naïve and ignorant opinion. this might just be my last missing child case.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=35917624&nid=148&fm=most_popular&s_cid=popular-5

"Blair said the boy's body was found around 4:30 p.m. Monday by a group of volunteer searchers from Colorado City.

The group was driving in a pickup truck along Forest Service Road 240 when they spotted a body on the ground around 15 to 20 feet off the road.

The body was found nearly 4 miles from the place the boy was last seen.

"Because Jerold was found close to the road and the road would have been a natural walking area for him compared to the very thick brush, it is believed that Jerold probably found his way to Forest Road 240 and followed it to Forest Road 241 in the direction away from the campsite and may have walked off into the forest to lay down to rest," Blair said.

Authorities said more than 1,000 people helped in the search over five days that covered about 21 square miles."

Yet it happens.

 

[gitana1]

I revised the map to show the approx. location he was found. The news media got the roads reversed in their report, but oh well. Forest road 240 dead ends. I'm assuming they found him near the end of it. It scales out right at 8 1/2 driving miles from their campsite.

He didn't drown. He would have died from dehydration and exhaustion (and maybe fear). He was walking AWAY from all the watering holes.


MSM article: http://www.kpho.com/story/29764048/5-year-old-found-dead-in-kaibab-forest-probably-died-first-night


Map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zAAmDUXJe_aE.kcsOUmM2GJ3A&usp=sharing

Thank you very much for that. Poor little guy - he kept going, probably until he couldn't go further.