GUILTY AZ - Madeline 'Maddie' Jones, 19 & William Jones-Gouchenour, 9 mos, found safe, Mesa, 15 Jun 2017

[Jethro4WS]

I'm trying to link my questions and comments to the direct post and am somehow seeing it get posted out of context or order. If someone can guide me, that would be great. lol. Sorry for my lack of inexperience, I'm new here and came specifically for this case. Have barely slept since this started-I people I know who are related to this case and since I saw it start, I've been trying to get as much info as I can.

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[Henry2326]

This link is the missing page for the City of Mesa Police Department...

https://m.facebook.com/missingcases/posts/1801323006554692

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[Jethro4WS]

The Father and his family have created a video offering a $5000 reward for information leading to finding Maddie and William.

https://www.facebook.com/MyModernLaw/videos/1510392478982082/

 

[Jennifer17]

I hope that they are safe and well, but I really do doubt it.

 

[Kiitah]

I hope something breaks in this case soon. There has been very little in the way of any real developments.

I don't know if this will help, but here is a link to the divorce decree, which has some information that helps explain the situation. This is from the public record and is signed by the judge.

Also, the judge ordered another hearing June 29:

Here is the warrant to return the child: It allows law enforcement officers to "make forcible entry on private propert at any hour to take custody of Baby William."

This has the most helpful, exhaustive information yet about the events surrounding this case.

May I ask from what site or link they came from? I am able to see them on google drive, but I would like to know how you found them in the first place. Thank you!

 

[Kiitah]

Does anyone know the significance of the July 11 "deadline" the judge gave Maddie and her family to return baby William by if they wanted leniency? I'm wondering what will happen if they haven't returned by then; what steps the Court will take next since it appears to them she is voluntarily hiding.

 

[gitana1]

He was apparently found guilty of nonconsensual sex (rape) against her according to BYU Title IX, and he was expelled http://www.crimeonline.com/2017/06/...-fly-in-case-of-missing-arizona-mom-and-baby/

Nope. You edited that. It said non-consensual "sexual behavior." That can include many things that aren't rape.

Also, a court, after a full blow psych evaluation of both parties, indicated that the mother and the grandparents made up allegations against the father. So she could've made them previously.

 

[gitana1]

I wonder if these events were reported to the local PD?

Sounds like a "gang stalking" delusion.

 

[gitana1]

You are bringing up some interesting points. I still keep thinking about the interview with the mother. I would really like to hear what an expert would have to say. Someone that studies linguistics, body language, etc... what appears to be inconsolable crying yet no tears??
Here is the link to what I am referring to:

http://www.azfamily.com/story/35688909/mesa-pd-mom-and-8-month-old-baby-missing?autostart=true

First thing odd I noticed about the case. Heaving and quivering with no tears. But I didn't know what if the weird info yet. So I pushed aside my weird feelings.

And therein lies the reason she can't be found. I'm still for Maddie. The boy/man has no idea about taking care of a baby. Shanen him and especially shame on his mother.

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She idea how to care for a baby either until she had one.

 

[gitana1]

<modsnip>
I support her leaving with the baby....now I'm worried that something bad has happened. Anytime a man goes to court to take a baby from a woman without proof she is unfit, he has control issues. I hope she is ok.

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Wow. That's a broad statement. He just asked for some visits. He didnt go for custody until she disappeared.

 

[Henry2326]

Wow. That's a broad statement. He just asked for some visits. He didnt go for custody until she disappeared.

I'm seriously worried about Maddie and Williams safety. IMO, there are other things at work here...just a gut feel.

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[GigTu]

Does anyone know the significance of the July 11 "deadline" the judge gave Maddie and her family to return baby William by if they wanted leniency? I'm wondering what will happen if they haven't returned by then; what steps the Court will take next since it appears to them she is voluntarily hiding.

I'm not the legal expert you are seeking, but I will venture to guess that they'll put a warrant out for her arrest under the guise of kidnapping. The action of keeping the baby from his father would then become a federal offense, right?

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Does anyone know the significance of the July 11 "deadline" the judge gave Maddie and her family to return baby William by if they wanted leniency? I'm wondering what will happen if they haven't returned by then; what steps the Court will take next since it appears to them she is voluntarily hiding.

I'm not the legal expert you are seeking, but I will venture to guess that they'll put a warrant out for her arrest under the guise of kidnapping. The action of keeping the baby from his father would then become a federal offense, right?

No legal expert here, either, but ...:

If Maddie is hiding out with William on her own, her parents (or yet another party) are helping them or even holding them against their will (e.g., I understand that William's father and Maddie are the only parties who currently share William's custody, but say, a third party did not want Maddie complying with the joint custody order and thus have kidnapped -or even worse ... - both Maddie and the baby; I am not saying that's what happened, but I get the impression that the father's attorney is at least considering such scenario as a possibility), I do wonder why no criminal charges have been filed against anyone.

Perhaps LE/DA do not have quite enough evidence to have an arrest warrant issued.

For example, according to the father's attorney:
"The judge in the case of missing mother Madeline Jones and her 9-month-old baby William told the parents of the woman that they would have to share their phone, email and bank records with the court in an investigation to find out whether they have information of her and the child&#8217;s whereabouts."

I don't know if the parents would be allowed to appeal the judge's order, but even if they complied immediately, it probably would take the judge a couple weeks to obtain and review those types of records (or maybe LE are already in possession of such records, and if allowed by a criminal court judge, they can share the information with the family court judge handling the custody case??).

So perhaps LE/DA/family court are working together to file a criminal(s) charge against Maddie, someone helping her, or holding her and William against their will ... or something else .

As to Kiitah's question, according to the father's attorney:
"Thursday, the judge issued a stern warning to the Jones family, stating to the attorneys for Madeline and the Joneses that their 'next move was the most important one,' adding that if Madeline were to return now, he would grant leniency. He also stated that if Madeline did not return by July 11, she would face harsh and severe sanctions."

Since I haven't seen the actual court documents, I really don't want to speculate what may happen next. And Ireally don't know what to think at this point. I just don't like that Maddie and William are still missing.

 

[Henry2326]

No legal expert here, either, but ...:

If Maddie is hiding out with William on her own, her parents (or yet another party) are helping them or even holding them against their will (e.g., I understand that William's father and Maddie are the only parties who currently share William's custody, but say, a third party did not want Maddie complying with the joint custody order and thus have kidnapped -or even worse ... - both Maddie and the baby; I am not saying that's what happened, but I get the impression that the father's attorney is at least considering such scenario as a possibility), I do wonder why no criminal charges have been filed against anyone.

Perhaps LE/DA do not have quite enough evidence to have an arrest warrant issued.

For example, according to the father's attorney:
"The judge in the case of missing mother Madeline Jones and her 9-month-old baby William told the parents of the woman that they would have to share their phone, email and bank records with the court in an investigation to find out whether they have information of her and the child’s whereabouts."

I don't know if the parents would be allowed to appeal the judge's order, but even if they complied immediately, it probably would take the judge a couple weeks to obtain and review those types of records (or maybe LE are already in possession of such records, and if allowed by a criminal court judge, they can share the information with the family court judge handling the custody case??).

So perhaps LE/DA/family court are working together to file a criminal(s) charge against Maddie, someone helping her, or holding her and William against their will ... or something else .

As to Kiitah's question, according to the father's attorney:
"Thursday, the judge issued a stern warning to the Jones family, stating to the attorneys for Madeline and the Joneses that their 'next move was the most important one,' adding that if Madeline were to return now, he would grant leniency. He also stated that if Madeline did not return by July 11, she would face harsh and severe sanctions."

Since I haven't seen the actual court documents, I really don't want to speculate what may happen next. And Ireally don't know what to think at this point. I just don't like that Maddie and William are still missing.

Notice we only have info from the father's attorney? Why is this attorney so interested in publically displaying his argument? There are 1000s of custody cases in the country but this attorney is putting his case on public display in the disguise of mainstream media on facebook. Just my random thoughts.

I'm worried for this young mother And sweet baby.

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[BettyBanana1]

I'm worried too - and probably so is the attorney for the father. She just put up a new reward video on the law firm's Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/MyModernLaw/videos/1510392478982082/, but you said "in the disguise of mainstream media." Not sure I understand what's being disguised - just my opinion...

You do bring up a very good point: I wonder why we don't have info from Maddie's attorney? Shouldn't they also be concerned and working for her to be returned?

 

[BettyBanana1]

Here are the links:
"Respondent's Emergency Order To Return Child"
Degree of Dissolution
Warrant

What's interesting about the warrant - and I hadn't seen this earlier, is that it says unequivocally that the court finds that Baby William is being held "in custody, confinement, or restraint..." by Madeline Jones. He must have been convinced that she's in hiding.

 

[Henry2326]

I'm worried too - and probably so is the attorney for the father. She just put up a new reward video on the law firm's Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/MyModernLaw/videos/1510392478982082/, but you said "in the disguise of mainstream media." Not sure I understand what's being disguised - just my opinion...

You do bring up a very good point: I wonder why we don't have info from Maddie's attorney? Shouldn't they also be concerned and working for her to be returned?

When I first looked at the page for the father's attorney I had the impression that it was a news report. After another look I realized that it is a publication from the father's attorney, probably telling one side of the story. It is possible that there is a great deal of info that we don't have....typical of custody issues.

I did request that websleuths delete it since we are not allowed to discuss or publish info other than from mainstream media, LE, or the victim.

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[Henry2326]

Here are the links:
"Respondent's Emergency Order To Return Child"
Degree of Dissolution
Warrant

What's interesting about the warrant - and I hadn't seen this earlier, is that it says unequivocally that the court finds that Baby William is being held "in custody, confinement, or restraint..." by Madeline Jones. He must have been convinced that she's in hiding.

I would love to see the evidence. The judge can only go on what he's told. We have seen this go wrong before. Frankly, I have no idea. But I do know that a 17 year old with a baby can't stay missing for this long unless something is not right. As well, we see many missing teens on this site...the longer it goes, the more worrisome I become. IMO....

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[mrsNKY]

In my opinion, the judge is being very smart and so is the fathers attorney.

Nothing appears that cannot be amended easily if the mother follows the orders. Everything according to the warrant seems to be temporary until mother complies, THEN the judge will review the findings and make a more permanent decision.
I'm not sure, why we are seeing such harsh posts against the father, and then the mother is made to appear a victim. As far as I'm concerned, both parents are victims. I also believe that the last statement/fight left was the breastfeeding issue, which was proven false. Then they disappear. The whole thing is sad. I also don't find it makes sense for the father to kidnap this girl, whom has not been willing to share this precious baby. Where would the father keep the baby at this point? Why does it make sense that father harm the mom and/or the mom, knowing he would be the number one suspect? After fighting this hard to be able to have parenting time, only to lose it. (Spite?)
I think the girl feels as though she has run out of options, the judge has investigated each and every claim and finds the allegations as being unfounded. So, instead of losing the baby a couple months a year, is making a case of mental instability and brings credence to the fathers allegations.
I understand the girl being afraid but, play it honest and fair, so you are proven to be stable and .... the bigger person. Also wanting to have as many people love your child as possible, makes a better safety net for the child. Learn to love your child, more than you hate the other person.
Sorry this is long, but some of these posts appear to be man bashing and that is not okay. There are MANY men, who are better parents than the mothers. Just because it's a mother doesn't mean you automatically the better parent.
The man bashing though, needs you stop. None of us REALLY know the intricases of this case. Only what is made public, unless you are actually an insider, who knows more than you're telling.
IJS. As always these are my opinions and observations.

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[Jethro4WS]

I would love to see the evidence. The judge can only go on what he's told. We have seen this go wrong before. Frankly, I have no idea. But I do know that a 17 year old with a baby can't stay missing for this long unless something is not right. As well, we see many missing teens on this site...the longer it goes, the more worrisome I become. IMO....

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Per this thread, Maddie is 19 not 17.