GUILTY AZ - Madeline 'Maddie' Jones, 19 & William Jones-Gouchenour, 9 mos, found safe, Mesa, 15 Jun 2017

[ColoradoMomof3]

You are bringing up some interesting points. I still keep thinking about the interview with the mother. I would really like to hear what an expert would have to say. Someone that studies linguistics, body language, etc... what appears to be inconsolable crying yet no tears??
Here is the link to what I am referring to:

http://www.azfamily.com/story/35688909/mesa-pd-mom-and-8-month-old-baby-missing?autostart=true

I agree but also found the statements made by the other mother unusual too in that she also seemed to be crying for her grandson with no tears. She also took down her FB missing poster at some point today, which I don't understand since they are still "missing".

I actually don't have a theory at this point (seem like exaggerations or lies on both sides) but don't think it is a stranger abduction IMO. I find the whole situation unsettling and just pray both baby and mom are safe.


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[SouthernCutie]

I hope there's news soon this case is complicated at best and if she's missing against her will she is in need of help asap.
If she chose to leave I'd think by now she would have contacted someone in her circle to let them know she's safe.
Reminds me of my friend Jennifer Wix and Adrianna her baby who vanished with nothing over 12 yrs ago. They have their own thread here at Websleuths also.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80236

Praying for their safe return

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[KeepCalm]

I read the court reading and neither of them comes our looking great TBH. I do wonder if BYU had already wrapped up its investigation at the time of the judgement. Colleges are notorious for letting males slide on behavior and in this instance they did not, so to me that actually says a lot. A family magistrate probably shouldn't be making any clear statements on such things, but again, the mothers behavior being over the top allows for a bit of leeway. On the other hand if she was SA by her husband, and if journal writing are accurate, it goes to show the mental anguish of not wanting to allow your child near a perceived threat. Not that it makes the subterfuge right.

This water is muddy as hell.

I just hope everyone is OK.

 

[razzledazzle]

After reading that... what a hot mess! Praying little William is being loved and hugged, and that Mom is ok, will get her head together, and be part of the resolution.

 

[cvaldez1975]

as I suspected, she sounds exactly like my husband's ex. worse actually. she also repeats herself thinking if she keeps repeating it, it will be true.

I hope something breaks in this case soon. There has been very little in the way of any real developments.

I don't know if this will help, but here is a link to the divorce decree, which has some information that helps explain the situation. This is from the public record and is signed by the judge.

Also, the judge ordered another hearing June 29:

Here is the warrant to return the child: It allows law enforcement officers to "make forcible entry on private propert at any hour to take custody of Baby William."

 

[cvaldez1975]

I don't think she planned to walk anywhere. I think she got picked up.

I hadn't seen anything that said she planned on walking, just that she said she was going to visit her lawyer and friends, but none of the articles said how she planned on getting there. Walking that far in 100+ degree weather with no purse or diaper bag does not make any sense. If she was concerned for her safety why would she plan on walking miles alone with the baby?

 

[cvaldez1975]

I didn't see that but read her comments. I thought "thou protesteth much" when I read them. doing too much.

You are bringing up some interesting points. I still keep thinking about the interview with the mother. I would really like to hear what an expert would have to say. Someone that studies linguistics, body language, etc... what appears to be inconsolable crying yet no tears??
Here is the link to what I am referring to:

http://www.azfamily.com/story/35688909/mesa-pd-mom-and-8-month-old-baby-missing?autostart=true

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

I hadn't seen anything that said she planned on walking, just that she said she was going to visit her lawyer and friends, but none of the articles said how she planned on getting there. Walking that far in 100+ degree weather with no purse or diaper bag does not make any sense. If she was concerned for her safety why would she plan on walking miles alone with the baby?

I recall this discussion pretty early on in this case if you perhaps check back through some of the early posts. We talked about walking and the heat, etc. - We all had similar questions re how she really planned to go anywhere, realistically, given what had been reported.

 

[Henry2326]

I didn't see that but read her comments. I thought "thou protesteth much" when I read them. doing too much.

You are bringing up some interesting points. I still keep thinking about the interview with the mother. I would really like to hear what an expert would have to say. Someone that studies linguistics, body language, etc... what appears to be inconsolable crying yet no tears??
Here is the link to what I am referring to:

http://www.azfamily.com/story/35688909/mesa-pd-mom-and-8-month-old-baby-missing?autostart=true

I hear ya....I have a psychology backgound. But thinking like a mom who might not care much for the other family, I might consider being the wing man for my lovely grandchild to take a temporary, maybe permanent vacation, where he is safe.

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[missgulfsouth]

I hear ya....I have a psychology backgound. But thinking like a mom who might not care much for the other family, I might consider being the wing man for my lovely grandchild to take a temporary, maybe permanent vacation, where he is safe.

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But we can't go around taking children from families simply because we don't like them. I'd be reporting a lot of families to DHS if that were the case. For all we know, her family could be just as bad. Most of the time, it is in the best interests of the child to stay with BOTH parents, lies and accusations notwithstanding. I try to remember that in these situations there are always 3 versions of the truth: his, hers, and the truth.

 

[razzledazzle]

But we can't go around taking children from families simply because we don't like them. I'd be reporting a lot of families to DHS if that were the case. For all we know, her family could be just as bad. Most of the time, it is in the best interests of the child to stay with BOTH parents, lies and accusations notwithstanding. I try to remember that in these situations there are always 3 versions of the truth: his, hers, and the truth.

I generally agree with you, however, I disappeared me and my 4 year old for about 2 and half months many years ago. One police detective believed me. The Ex was a real piece of work. Only my Mom knew where we were. I was never reported missing. I eventually showed for a scheduled court date (without my child), and the Ex was awarded his visitation rights. As soon as I had a third party do the exchange, instead of showing up myself, the Ex lost interest.

I do hope Mom and Baby are ok and a resolution is reached.

 

[missgulfsouth]

The quote boxes here are all wonky!

 

[Henry2326]

But we can't go around taking children from families simply because we don't like them. I'd be reporting a lot of families to DHS if that were the case. For all we know, her family could be just as bad. Most of the time, it is in the best interests of the child to stay with BOTH parents, lies and accusations notwithstanding. I try to remember that in these situations there are always 3 versions of the truth: his, hers, and the truth.

I think there is a little bit of truth in all stories. Unfortunately, the one who tells the story the best is listened to.

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[cvaldez1975]

no its me, my work computer cant quote and I cant edit

The quote boxes here are all wonky!

 

[findher8]

Both grandmas come off as odd in their previously posted news interviews. Jacob states that Maddie has a history of mental illness, but in the above postings of their divorce decree, we learn that it was Jacob who has a history of being on psychiatric meds, not Maddie. Also it is interesting that he is so calm when we know that not only is his son missing, but his ex-wife had him EXPELLED from BYU and all church-schools because of her accusations of sexual assault. We learn this from the crime-online report from earlier. Judging from when he served his mission and his subsequent marriage to Maddie, he is presumably about halfway done with his schooling. From the crimeonline posting, his expulsion notification was mailed around June 7. Maddie and William went missing on the 15th. He had to be pretty angry, whether the accusations were true or not, as that expulsion will affect him at any future school he attempts to apply to. And we know from the divorce decree that he had only one visit with William prior to the start of supervised visits the week they went missing. Bonding is questionable. Definitely goes to support motive. They are missing as of 2 weeks tomorrow.

 

[findher8]

Also the divorce decree posted by Betty Banana discusses "uncontroverted" evidence that Jacob, as a 20 year old Mormon missionary, had a relationship with a 15 year old. The court said this did not establish sexual deviancy, only immaturity and poor judgement (missionaries are not allowed to date at all), but yikes, that is weird. He then turned around and got engaged and then married to 17 year old Maddie. Her family admittedly was a little crazy to allow her to get married (age 17 in AZ requires parental consent), but he must have been pretty convincing Scary.

 

[Henry2326]

Also the divorce decree posted by Betty Banana discusses "uncontroverted" evidence that Jacob, as a 20 year old Mormon missionary, had a relationship with a 15 year old. The court said this did not establish sexual deviancy, only immaturity and poor judgement (missionaries are not allowed to date at all), but yikes, that is weird. He then turned around and got engaged and then married to 17 year old Maddie. Her family admittedly was a little crazy to allow her to get married (age 17 in AZ requires parental consent), but he must have been pretty convincing Scary.

I bet that's a decision the family already regrets....I support Maddie....I think the judge made a huge mistake. But they listen to the people who can tell a story the best.

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[BettyBanana1]

I can't disagree that a judge will listen to the one who makes the best case, but the decree has some pretty detailed descriptions about Madeline Jones lying, and lots of instances, so that probably made it difficult for her attorney.

Also, if before they married, Jacob had dated a girl who was 15 and there was some kind of physical shenanigans, it's hardly unusual. It may be against the church rules for that sort of activity, but who can be shocked by this or call it deviant?

Based on what I read, it seems likely to me that Madeline is hiding. I hope that's the case, anyway. If someone is helping her, they aren't doing her any favors though, since we've seen other mothers go to jail for this. These two parents need to work it out and stop ramping up the drama.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

I can't disagree that a judge will listen to the one who makes the best case, but the decree has some pretty detailed descriptions about Madeline Jones lying, and lots of instances, so that probably made it difficult for her attorney.

Also, if before they married, Jacob had dated a girl who was 15 and there was some kind of physical shenanigans, it's hardly unusual. It may be against the church rules for that sort of activity, but who can be shocked by this or call it deviant?

Based on what I read, it seems likely to me that Madeline is hiding. I hope that's the case, anyway. If someone is helping her, they aren't doing her any favors though, since we've seen other mothers go to jail for this. These two parents need to work it out and stop ramping up the drama.

Respectfully bolded by me.

My daughter just turned 15 last week.

She has a friend -also 15- who is currently dating a 20-year-old. She supposedly told her parents (the father is a police officer ...) he is 19, and they are supposedly OK with it.

So I wouldn't be surprised or shocked to hear about a 15-year-old (male or female) dating or having a sexual relationship with a 20-year-old, but personally, I do think it is deviant and unacceptable. That's pretty much a high school freshman/sophomore dating a college sophomore/junior.

I know a lot of kids (girls in particular, IMO) of high-school-age don't see anything wrong with it (including my own daughter ...), and I certainly didn't when I was that age, but as a parent especially, I just don't see anything good coming out of such relationship.

The longer this goes on, the more I worry about both Madeline and William. And the lack of media coverage is really strange, IMO.

 

[Amster]

Her father doesn't come off sounding very stable in the article posted above.....divorce decree. WHOLE lot of lies coming from Madeline and her father. It sure looks like they decided to take the custody/visitation battle to an entire new level. It's wrong and cruel. IMO