GUILTY AZ - Michael, 44, & Tina Careccia, 42, Maricopa, 22 June 2015 - #3 *Arrest*

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If the Probable Cause statements says that the family last saw Mike and Tina at 9pm,
then the brother-in-law must have been mistaken when he states on video at 1 minute 29 seconds..??

"We saw them Sunday night, at you know, 10-10:30..."

http://www.azfamily.com/story/29421...or-missing-pinal-county-couple?autostart=true

So, is that the timeline then?
They were last seen at 9pm? According to the Probable Cause...

IMOO.
 
I don't think anyone wants to believe these two beautiful people were using with their killer. I'm relieved to have new info so that new theories can be discussed.

Perhaps JV told MC he didn't want to continue discussing the arsonist topic there at the get together and said they could discuss it later. Thus the said repeated calls to JV between 9:00-11:00. And...did JV ever answer or know about these calls and still leave the phones in the car? Not smart.

So maybe MC whether he received an answer or not says. "I'm going over there" even if TC said it can wait (already being in pajamas, not planning to go anywhere). Then maybe says, "you're not going without me." - just grabs phone, no purse needed.

That discussion being an emotional one for MC & TC could easily get out of hand especially if it possibly was revealed that JV could have been involved in the fires.

JMO but I could seen it going down like that.
 
Treelights said:
The Probable Cause statement states Michael and Tina were last seen by family members at 9pm.
The cellphone records of Mike and Tina were turned off after Sunday night and no longer sending a signal to the tower.
Michael made several calls to Jose between 9pm and 11pm.

This Probable Cause doesn't say their phones were turned off about 9pm.
IMOO.
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm mistaken, I thought the sheriff gave the 9:00 time of phones being turned off at the press conference after the remains were recovered.
 
Madeleine74 said:
Facts are facts and we don't know all the information that LE has gathered including statements by those who are not the killers. Many people get angry when LE doesn't say what's going on in a case because they feel entitled to know it all as LE learns it. Here we have LE giving details they've learned in the case so far and some are angry about that.

That anyone might think less of victims of a murder who might have also used drugs as part of their lifestyle choice is not the problem of investigators. People are judgmental and they want their victims to be pristine in word and deed and that isn't very realistic. Drug users or not, a double murder was committed and if drugs were involved, so be it. The justice system doesn't make a value determination on the worth of some people's lives vs others.
Click to expand...

For LE to introduce the notion that the victims were meth users, and to base this notion on the statements of the murderers, without any hard evidence (i.e. a tox report) to back it up, seems unnecessarily hurtful and unneeded. Think of the agony the children are going through with having their parents murdered and burried in a makeshift grave...now throw on top of that a story painted by their killers and further propagated by the police that they were long term (2-years) meth users...just don't get it.
 
Tbabes said:
For LE to introduce the notion that the victims were meth users, and to base this notion on the statements of the murderers, without any hard evidence (i.e. a tox report) to back it up, seems unnecessarily hurtful and unneeded. Think of the agony the children are going through with having their parents murdered and burried in a makeshift grave...now throw on top of that a story painted by their killers and further propagated by the police that they were long term (2-years) meth users...just don't get it.
Click to expand...

Web Speculators introduce all kinds of theories, speculation, and sometimes rumors, in just about every case, with not only no hard evidence, but no evidence at all, and without any consequences.

LE is sharing what they learned so far as part of their investigation and this is properly labeled as "alleged." We'll know soon enough if what LE gathered as part of the investigation is accurate or not.
 
No theories here just some things that baffle me.....Maricopa has "small town mentality" everyone pretty much knows everyone or knows * about* them. JV there at least since 2000. If that holds true, then JV habits & reputation/associations would have been somewhat known to other locals. So IMO there would be talk around town he wasn't exactly living a wholesome life, right??? if all that holds true.... Then why hire JV to do electrical work or bring him over to party-down ??? & even go into the subject of arson deep in the dark hours at creepy house?????

2nd baffling Q.... If it were my missing mother, sister, family member... I would WELCOME someone hiring a PI to get ON IT. How GREAT would that be???? Someone to put a fire under the belt of LE & someone familiar w the system doing due diligence from another angle. CAN I SAY THIS ENOUGH??.. unless..... there was something to hide...(not implying there was) but baffling... So why family so angry about the PI ???? Makes Nada sense
 
CrimeNeverPays said:
No theories here just some things things that baffle me.....Maricopa has "small town mentality" everyone pretty much knows everyone or knows * about* them. JV there at least since 2000. If that holds true, then JV habits & reputation/associations would have been somewhat known to other locals. So IMO there would be talk around town he wasn't exactly living a wholesome life, right??? if all that holds true.... Then why hire JV to do electrical work or bring him over to party-down ??? & even go into the subject of arson deep in the dark hours at creepy house?????

2nd baffling Q.... If it were my missing mother, sister, family member... I would WELCOME someone hiring a PI to get ON IT. How GREAT would that be???? Someone to put a fire under the belt of LE & someone familiar w the system doing due diligence from another angle. CAN I SAY THIS ENOUGH??.. unless..... there were something to hide.... So why family so angry about the PI ???? Makes Nada sense
Click to expand...

I admit, I am baffled by these issues as well.
Particularly the idea that Michael & Tina would leave home in the dark of night...without telling a soul... to confront an allegedly drunk man about arson. Seems irrational, IMO
 
CrimeNeverPays said:
No theories here just some things things that baffle me.....Maricopa has "small town mentality" everyone pretty much knows everyone or knows * about* them. JV there at least since 2000. If that holds true, then JV habits & reputation/associations would have been somewhat known to other locals. So IMO there would be talk around town he wasn't exactly living a wholesome life, right??? if all that holds true.... Then why hire JV to do electrical work or bring him over to party-down ??? & even go into the subject of arson deep in the dark hours at creepy house?????

2nd baffling Q.... If it were my missing mother, sister, family member... I would WELCOME someone hiring a PI to get ON IT. How GREAT would that be???? Someone to put a fire under the belt of LE & someone familiar w the system doing due diligence from another angle. CAN I SAY THIS ENOUGH??.. unless..... there were something to hide.... So why family so angry about the PI ???? Makes Nada sense
Click to expand...

I think it probably has something to do with how her family went about it -- if they came in straight away accusing everyone of being a liar and/or being involved or just generally treating them like they were just a bunch scuzbags or something, kwim? And not from just what the PI was saying but HOW he was saying it, that seems like that could have been at least some of the problem...
 
I wonder if they(M & T) hired him (JV) as a way to get to know him a little more without being too suspicious because they had info that he may be involved...and then jv got wise to their q's and resulted in an altercation?
 
Tbabes said:
For LE to introduce the notion that the victims were meth users, and to base this notion on the statements of the murderers, without any hard evidence (i.e. a tox report) to back it up, seems unnecessarily hurtful and unneeded. Think of the agony the children are going through with having their parents murdered and burried in a makeshift grave...now throw on top of that a story painted by their killers and further propagated by the police that they were long term (2-years) meth users...just don't get it.
Click to expand...

"Valenzuela told investigators that he and the couple have been acquainted for the past two years and used methamphetamine together, including the night of the killing.
Babeu cautioned, however, that toxicology tests were needed to confirm the allegations."

http://www.midco.net/news/read/cate...ies_suspect_high_on_meth_during_arizona_ki-ap

Babeu is the Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu.
 
CrimeNeverPays said:
No theories here just some things that baffle me.....Maricopa has "small town mentality" everyone pretty much knows everyone or knows * about* them. JV there at least since 2000. If that holds true, then JV habits & reputation/associations would have been somewhat known to other locals. So IMO there would be talk around town he wasn't exactly living a wholesome life, right??? if all that holds true.... Then why hire JV to do electrical work or bring him over to party-down ??? & even go into the subject of arson deep in the dark hours at creepy house?????

2nd baffling Q.... If it were my missing mother, sister, family member... I would WELCOME someone hiring a PI to get ON IT. How GREAT would that be???? Someone to put a fire under the belt of LE & someone familiar w the system doing due diligence from another angle. CAN I SAY THIS ENOUGH??.. unless..... there was something to hide...(not implying there was) but baffling... So why family so angry about the PI ???? Makes Nada sense
Click to expand...

What did the PI say? I must have missed that part.
 
Regarding why some family members were less than enthusiastic about the hiring of the PI, that it appeared that some family members did not have an opportunity to speak with him and felt that his own initial investigation was lopsided. And as much as we'd like to believe that everybody was just one big happy family before this tragedy occurred, I am sure there was some friction between some of the members of this extended family. If someone was looking for one of my family members, I would like to have the opportunity to speak with them. You know, to put in my two cents worth. how is anybody supposed to stay calm and cool and collected when one of their parents or siblings is missing?
 
So we have two different times drugs were mentioned as a motive. The PI and LE.

I would like to think the family is right and no drugs are involved but I think the investigation might have revealed a whole different story.
 
KateB said:
The PI's first foul play theory pointed a finger at Michael.

http://www.12news.com/story/news/lo...ate-investigator-suspects-foul-play/29383027/
Click to expand...

He said he thought that the husband is involved in someway or it's foul play with someone else.

It turns out that Mike knew this perp.
It turns out that others knew this perp as well.

One thing that I will add is that in the Youtube raw video, the PI mentioned in this raw video that he was told that Mike had a drug habit.
It is around the One hour 18 minutes and 54 seconds part of this raw interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USpoVw0QDpI&feature=youtu.be

It is possible that Mike's family is not too happy with what the PI said.
IMOO.
 
Treelights said:
He said he thought that the husband is involved in someway or it's foul play with someone else.

It turns out that Mike knew this perp.
It turns out that others knew this perp as well.

One thing that I will add is that in the Youtube raw video, the PI mentioned in this raw video that he was told that Mike had a drug habit.
It is around the One hour 18 minutes and 54 seconds part of this raw interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USpoVw0QDpI&feature=youtu.be

It is possible that Mike's family is not too happy with what the PI said.
IMOO.
Click to expand...

True... I guess it could be possible that only MC was a user...I would really like to think that neither of them used, but like Honeybun1807 just said that LE and the PI are suggesting drug involvement so until I hear the tox report I guess it has to be considered :( from looking at the two and I had to choose who might be abusing a substance, I would have to say MC. He looked kind of rough in most of the pictures, unshaven and tired. But a person can look like that without using drugs lol...
 
nervous_nellie said:
True... I guess it could be possible that only MC was a user...I would really like to think that neither of them used, but like Honeybun1807 just said that LE and the PI are suggesting drug involvement so until I hear the tox report I guess it has to be considered :( from looking at the two and I had to choose who might be abusing a substance, I would have to say MC. He looked kind of rough in most of the pictures, unshaven and tired. But a person can look like that without using drugs lol...
Click to expand...

And a drug habit could mean any kind of drugs.
It doesn't have to be meth.
IMOO.
 
One thing I noticed and was surprised by during the sheriff's PC.....he stated that "we're releasing more info than we've been advised to" or something to that affect. Did anyone else hear that? I wanted to go back to listen again but the audio was terrible so I could have heard it incorrectly.
 
How did he have time to dig a 6ft grave without the roommate calling the cops. Didn't roommate ditch the car as well.

He should have called le while off the property. Jmo. Maybe he needed to smoke more meth and le would have interrupted that.
 
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