AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[oceanblueeyes]

If the step mom swatted him for the papers at Dad's request (which makes no sense to me on either parents behalf), and this was so premeditated and calculated, why would he kill Dad and the boarder and not step mom?

Because she most likely didn't even swat him that hard.

Maybe the dad knew he was too angry to spank him and knew the step mom wouldn't hit him too hard.

Or he was trying to get the point across to him that the stepmother was one of his parents now and would be involved in part of his raising too.

Whatever........it is absolutely mind boggling that he killed his dad because he was mad at him over something he had failed to do himself. I wonder if it was his report card and he had not been doing his homework or school work. I bet this dad went to teacher meetings to see if the boy was doing his work from time to time.

From what people have said about this father he took up a lot of time with his son. I think he was trying to raise him correctly.

imoo

 

[SoobsinMI]

Well of course they will check it out Soobs. They would be derelict in their duties if they didn't check it out whether it is exist or not, that is their duty concerning their investigation but for now it seems the boy was mad at his dad because his daddy was highly upset with him that he didn't bring his papers home from school (probably had a pattern of doing so maybe) and had the stepmother give him 5 swats.

As late as yesterday Melnick said they have uncovered no abuse and even the boy's own attorney said the same thing.

I understand, I was working from an old article. But I was still trying to point out that the idea of abuse wasn't just thought about by posters here, the police also considered it. I'm still having trouble accepting that an 8 yr old child murdered two people, because he was having problems with homework. I am now more interested in hearing about the "five swats" the father ordered the SM to give him.

 

[Linda7NJ]

If there are no bruises...there is nothing wrong with the 5 swats

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If there are no bruises...there is nothing wrong with the 5 swats

And you can bet they have already checked him out the day he told them (last Wednesday) about being spanked.

As of this Monday, Melnick said he was not aware of any abuse.

I think this boy just go mad that he was disciplined and had it in for his dad because of that. I wouldn't be surprise when the case goes to trial that the father had been having trouble with the boy not bringing his school papers home before even that day.

imoo

 

[Bobbisangel]

The fact that no one is there for him is very telling. His father appears to be the only person he was close to and he killed him. His mother left the state after she found out what happened. How very sad.

I am looking at this in a whole different light. From what we have read this kid was well liked and well behaved. I'm sure that there were a lot of people in his life that cared for him.

I would guess that because he has committed murder x's 2... people are not willing to take him into their homes. Why would they place their own lives and the lives of their children in danger? He planned these murders and as of yet no one knows why. Just because LE is looking into abuse issues that doesn't mean that there were any. The motive could have been something very small like not getting something he wanted or not being able to go live with mom.
It doesn't have to be abuse of any kind.

As far as domestic violence goes and the calls to LE...it could very well have been the mother who was abusive. After all, the father has custody of the boy. We forget that women can be just as abusive as men...men just don't report it because they are ashamed to admit that a woman has been knocking them around. If mom was responsible for the domestic violence it ended when the parents split and divorced. Because the dad was so careful about remarrying...dating his wife for two years...shows that he wasn't going to just jump in head first and marry again. I guess he wasn't going to make the same mistake twice. I would also guess that he wanted his boy to get used to the girlfriend and get to know her too.

Who on here would be willing to take this boy in until he goes to trial?

 

[Salem]

The way I'm reading it, the Judge approved the gag order because of a custody dispute that was already in progress. I'm thinking biomom had already filed for custody and it was in process before these shootings took place.

That could probably be verified by looking at the Apache Co. court calendar or records. Maybe tomorrow. It's late tonight.

Salem

This is a really strange story.

 

[Bobbisangel]

:furious:

What is so chilling about all of this is how methodically he carried out all of this.

He had to reload the rifle 7 times after he fired the first shot.

And he called Mr. Romans into the home telling him he needed him and when Mr. Romans went to him he was waiting and shot him 4 times just like he did his dad.

No wonder LE knew it was premeditated. They had the rifle and knew it was a single shot rifle.

So scary.

It is chilling as you said earlier. This boy might be just 8 years old but he knew what he was doing as he carried out the murders. He even thought through killing Mr. Romans so that he wouldn't be a witness. He calls Mr. Romans into the home knowing that he would come to see what the boy wanted. This doesn't even sound like a 8 yr old. You wouldn't think he would be capable of thinking this all through. It just gives me the creeps. I would guess he shot them each 4 times to make sure that they were dead.

I'm surprised that this boy didn't wait for his stepmother to come home and shoot her too. She is the one who gave him 5 swats the night before. Wasn't he mad at her too?

It doesn't sound like LE forced a confession out of this boy. It sounds like after talking to him for awhile about what happened...thinking that he just saw or heard what happened..the boy started telling them what really happened. He must have walked them through the two murders as they know exactly how they were committed. It just amazes me that this boy could plan exactly what to do...when to shoot each man so one wouldn't know about the other, etc. This boy must have a fairly high IQ. I wonder if he hadn't been getting in trouble at home for not bringing his papers home from school or things as simple as that. Maybe his grades weren't that great at the time and he didn't want dad to see his graded papers so he left them at school on purpose.

Darn them for slapping a gag order on this case. We have questions that need answered :furious:

 

[twinkiesmom]

I think 5 swats for an 8 year old forgetting papers is extreme...forgetting is a normal part of being a child and can be disciplined effectively by taking away tv/video game time.

If this is the punishment for forgetting papers, what happened when he got caught doing something serious?

This child doesn't have a discipline record at school because he probably was disciplined at home to "perfection".

Since he didn't shoot the stepmom, it seems more apparent to me that this was about living with his biomom....he probably didn't know she wouldn't take him.

 

[Trino]

News media says the boy is 8. I wonder if he's closer to 9. It seems unreal that he could plan these murders.

Okay. You posters all know Topix. It's all over the place as far as reliability. In some cities it's close to the truth; in others, like the Weleetka murders, you don't want to go there. BUT, the St. John's posting mention that both the step-mother and mother were given an opportunity to take the boy home and refused.

 

[impatientredhead]

News media says the boy is 8. I wonder if he's closer to 9. It seems unreal that he could plan these murders.

Okay. You posters all know Topix. It's all over the place as far as reliability. In some cities it's close to the truth; in others, like the Weleetka murders, you don't want to go there. BUT, the St. John's posting mention that both the step-mother and mother were given an opportunity to take the boy home and refused.

The stepmom not taking him I get. With the mom being out of state and the charges he is facing maybe it is not possible for her to come and be with him. Does she have other children? I am sure the state would not be jumping up and down to send a double homicide defendent out of the state.

With the topic of child custody being mentioned in other posts and the mom just visiting, I hope there wasn't one of those "you will get custody over my dead body" type of fights within his earshot.

That wouldn't explain the roommate though. No reason to kill him, not even as a witness since by report the immediately went to a neighbor. He didn't try to hide or say he came home and found them that way.

 

[Trino]

The stepmom not taking him I get. With the mom being out of state and the charges he is facing maybe it is not possible for her to come and be with him. Does she have other children? I am sure the state would not be jumping up and down to send a double homicide defendent out of the state.

With the topic of child custody being mentioned in other posts and the mom just visiting, I hope there wasn't one of those "you will get custody over my dead body" type of fights within his earshot.

That wouldn't explain the roommate though. No reason to kill him, not even as a witness since by report the immediately went to a neighbor. He didn't try to hide or say he came home and found them that way.

The boy apparently DID try to hide the fact that he killed. It was only after questioning the boy further that LE realized he was the murderer. The boy also did not tell his neighbor friend he was the killer, only said that he thought his dad and the roomer were dead.

I think there's a difference between a room-mate and a boarder. The family (father and step-mother) took in the roomer (boarder) to save him gas and time because he was working nearby at the same site as the father. I would guess the boarder paid the family. The boarder was married with a family of his own in another town. The boy apparently stated he killed the boarder so there would be no witness.

 

[chiperoni]

He couldn't have planned this murder if his father had not given him the rifle. It became the eight year old's own accessible riflle. Grandmother gave it to her son and dad gave it to his eight year old son. Again an eight year old does not have the mental capacity to understand the full ramifications of killing a person. It was very easy for the child to kill a "varmint" because he had no emotional attachment.The father and stepmother disagreed according to their priest over whether the child should have his own personal rifle. She wanted him to have a BB gun. This child was going through a lot of turmoil obviously and was very upset. His father is is dead and the boarder/winess is dead too. This child's life and the lives of others are forever traumatized.

 

[Anubis]

And the guns weren't locked up because?????..... I have several guns in my home and none of my four children can access them although they all have been taught how to load and discharge them. My husband and I have made very sure they understand how and when to handle a weapon. Under California law, we must keep the guns secured and in a safe. The safe we have has a key access and combo lock (you need both to open it). There are two keys, one on my key ring that I have on me at all times (in my pocket or purse). My husband's key is also secured. None of the children have been told that you need both items to open the safe, nor is the combo written down. When someone is careless with guns, bad things happen.

Just a side note, having worked in the juvenile justice arena, there are 8 year olds out there fully capable of doing just what this young man did and fully capable of understanding it.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

:furious:


It is chilling as you said earlier. This boy might be just 8 years old but he knew what he was doing as he carried out the murders. He even thought through killing Mr. Romans so that he wouldn't be a witness. He calls Mr. Romans into the home knowing that he would come to see what the boy wanted. This doesn't even sound like a 8 yr old. You wouldn't think he would be capable of thinking this all through. It just gives me the creeps. I would guess he shot them each 4 times to make sure that they were dead.

I'm surprised that this boy didn't wait for his stepmother to come home and shoot her too. She is the one who gave him 5 swats the night before. Wasn't he mad at her too?

It doesn't sound like LE forced a confession out of this boy. It sounds like after talking to him for awhile about what happened...thinking that he just saw or heard what happened..the boy started telling them what really happened. He must have walked them through the two murders as they know exactly how they were committed. It just amazes me that this boy could plan exactly what to do...when to shoot each man so one wouldn't know about the other, etc. This boy must have a fairly high IQ. I wonder if he hadn't been getting in trouble at home for not bringing his papers home from school or things as simple as that. Maybe his grades weren't that great at the time and he didn't want dad to see his graded papers so he left them at school on purpose.

Darn them for slapping a gag order on this case. We have questions that need answered :furious:

Good Morning, Bobbi!

It is so chilling. I do agree I think it will come to pass that this boy has a high intelligence level. He so methodically planned it, even as you said, knowing to eliminate any witness at the scene. My heart just breaks for the Romans family and their great loss of their husband and loving father. Poor Mr. Romans was just in the wrong place when all this went down.

I also agree with you. I think we will find out evidentially that the father had been struggling with him to bring his work home in the past and it was a repeated pattern. I even wonder if he was to bring his report card home and didn't because he may have gone down on some of his grades. He would have to know that his father wouldn't like that and may have even taken away some of his sports activities that it seems he liked to do.

This case has nothing to do with his dad teaching him to hunt imo. There are thousands of murders committed in the country yearly, unfortunately, and many of these murderers have never even seen a hunting field in their entire lives. What it did teach him though is.......death is real and final.......he saw the prairie dogs that were killed. He knew when they are shot they never ever get back up again. This wasn't some city kid who gets the idea about death from video or computer games.

Yes, when all this began the police really believed this boy was only a tragic witness and did not even realize he was the suspect until they had finished 90% of their interview with him. Did you notice how smart he was when trying to make excuses about why a lot of gunshot reside would be found on his clothes?

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

And the guns weren't locked up because?????..... I have several guns in my home and none of my four children can access them although they all have been taught how to load and discharge them. My husband and I have made very sure they understand how and when to handle a weapon. Under California law, we must keep the guns secured and in a safe. The safe we have has a key access and combo lock (you need both to open it). There are two keys, one on my key ring that I have on me at all times (in my pocket or purse). My husband's key is also secured. None of the children have been told that you need both items to open the safe, nor is the combo written down. When someone is careless with guns, bad things happen.

Just a side note, having worked in the juvenile justice arena, there are 8 year olds out there fully capable of doing just what this young man did and fully capable of understanding it.

I don't think it is the father's fault that he trusted his son. His son betrayed that trust. Never was he taught to use this hunting weapon against another human being. How could he have ever guessed in a million years that his son was plotting to kill him just because he became upset with him over his school work?

If a family member is murdered by another family member with a knife or a ball bat that was intended for other purposes, then should they lock away all their kitchen knifes and lock up the sports bat just to make sure they aren't murdered by their own? I don't think it is the weapon used but the mindset of the one who has decided to be a taker of human life. Once they have made that decision, what was once used for something else, now becomes a tool to murder.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He couldn't have planned this murder if his father had not given him the rifle. It became the eight year old's own accessible riflle. Grandmother gave it to her son and dad gave it to his eight year old son. Again an eight year old does not have the mental capacity to understand the full ramifications of killing a person. It was very easy for the child to kill a "varmint" because he had no emotional attachment.The father and stepmother disagreed according to their priest over whether the child should have his own personal rifle. She wanted him to have a BB gun. This child was going through a lot of turmoil obviously and was very upset. His father is is dead and the boarder/winess is dead too. This child's life and the lives of others are forever traumatized.

As coldly as he killed these two men it seems he had no emotional attachment to human beings either.

He knew death was real and final.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The way I'm reading it, the Judge approved the gag order because of a custody dispute that was already in progress. I'm thinking biomom had already filed for custody and it was in process before these shootings took place.

That could probably be verified by looking at the Apache Co. court calendar or records. Maybe tomorrow. It's late tonight.

Salem

This is a really strange story.

Which link did you read that in Salem? TIA

The gag order was placed on the DAs office, LE and the defense attorneys who are involved in the murder case.

They would have nothing at all to do with any custody case.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I am looking at this in a whole different light. From what we have read this kid was well liked and well behaved. I'm sure that there were a lot of people in his life that cared for him.

I would guess that because he has committed murder x's 2... people are not willing to take him into their homes. Why would they place their own lives and the lives of their children in danger? He planned these murders and as of yet no one knows why. Just because LE is looking into abuse issues that doesn't mean that there were any. The motive could have been something very small like not getting something he wanted or not being able to go live with mom.
It doesn't have to be abuse of any kind.

As far as domestic violence goes and the calls to LE...it could very well have been the mother who was abusive. After all, the father has custody of the boy. We forget that women can be just as abusive as men...men just don't report it because they are ashamed to admit that a woman has been knocking them around. If mom was responsible for the domestic violence it ended when the parents split and divorced. Because the dad was so careful about remarrying...dating his wife for two years...shows that he wasn't going to just jump in head first and marry again. I guess he wasn't going to make the same mistake twice. I would also guess that he wanted his boy to get used to the girlfriend and get to know her too.

Who on here would be willing to take this boy in until he goes to trial?

Another great post, I agree with totally.

I think this is why the town is backing away from this child. They knew how much his father doted on him.......how much fun he had..........how he had so much to be thankful for and they just cant comprehend why he would do such a thing.

I have always felt that fathers who gain full custody of their children are held up to a much higher standard in the courts. I am sure the Judge weighed everything.

imo

 

[colomom]

If there are no bruises...there is nothing wrong with the 5 swats

What if he was made to drop his pants?

 

[Garnan]

I think that most of us agree that a child of eight should not be able to use a rifle or a gun easily or even at all. That is child neglect. So many big deals like spanking over low grades can cause an insecure eight year old to pick up a gun and kill. An eight year old has a small world.The priest said the father wanted his son to be able use a rifle and learn how to hunt while the stepmother said he should just have a BB gun. They obviously disagreed with each other.
If the youngster was talking to his friends about what was going on we'll find out but I know somethng was not right.

It isn't child neglect. I don't agree with this post and please don't presume to speak for me in the future.

It is very common for children this age to own and use guns. The whole world isn't raised in an apartment complex.