AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[shadowraiths]

Police arrived at the victim's house he shared with his wife within minutes of the shooting Wednesday, said Roy Melnick, St. Johns police chief. They found one victim just outside the front door and the other dead in an upstairs room.

So... This 8-year-old child first shot his 29-year-old father, then chased down a 39-year-old man and shot him just as he was running out the door? And he did all this in broad daylight as opposed to the middle of the night when both would have been sleeping and hence, much easier targets?

"He had no record of any kind, not even a disciplinary record at school," he said. "He has never been in trouble before."

Since this 8-year-old child exhibits no behavioral markers (i.e., conduct disorder) indicating pre-disposition to psychopathy, Iow what trigger would be so profound that he would go after two grown men?

Melnick said police got a confession, but the boy's attorney, Benjamin Brewer, said police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights.

Or, maybe he just felt like "killing" someone. After all, based upon the confession LE "got" and per statements they made to the press he executed a calculated plan to murder these two adults in cold blood (his social, emotional, and intellectual development notwithstanding). Then again, perhaps an older someone else was involved but they're so busy sensationalizing the "precedent setting" murder case against an 8-year-old child that they've totally overlooked glaring logistics problems and feasibility issues.

 

[colette]

The boy "shot each victim at least four times with a .22-caliber rifle, methodically stopping and reloading as he killed them, prosecutors said Monday."

" ...His father, an avid hunter, reportedly trained his son to shoot prairie dogs — and psychologists said that might have played a role."

"The boy told the police that he had been spanked at home the night before because he was having trouble at school. But, the prosecutor said, the boy “did not say that was the reason he committed any of the acts.”

Mr Roman was outside talking to his wife on a cell phone.
"Mr. Romans had told his wife that the boy was calling for him. He was on the porch on his way into the house when he was shot in the chest and head, the authorities said." (So he called him to murder him)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/11/us/11child.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

There is now a gag order.

 

[MCDRAW]

The fact that no one is there for him is very telling. His father appears to be the only person he was close to and he killed him. His mother left the state after she found out what happened. How very sad.

If the Mother left the state right after she found out what happened, it makes me wonder if she wasn't the guilty party. This is just my opinion. What kind of Mother would leave this child all alone. You know this little boy must be scared. She had to know that no one would be there for the boy. As for hunting, lots of little boys hunt with their father's, and they don't turn into killers.

 

[colette]

In the above article it says neighbors heard the shots and called the police, they were there immediately. Plus the fact the boy called the roomer into the home to kill him on the doorstep as he was talking to his wife gives a pretty tight time line. Next article says now the mother hasn't "taken custody of him."

also about the gag order:
http://www.kpho.com/news/17945933/detail.html

 

[Charli-Ann]

Imho, the problem w/the abuse scenario is that it "assumes" this child did, in fact, shoot his father and his father's friend. But... just "what if" someone else shot them and he witnessed that shooting? How easy would it be for him to not only be afraid to talk but to also believe that he was in some way, responsible for his dad's death?

It's called magical thinking and kids engage in that a lot... thinking they're responsible for a loved one's death when said loved one is dying from a terminal illness... thinking they're responsible for mommy or daddy leaving when mommy & daddy made an adult decision to divorce based upon adult reasons that they cannot possibly understand... thinking they are responsible for their dad's death for not protecting him from an intruder...

In the end, we may find out that he did in fact shoot his father & the friend. Otoh, I personally, have a problem when LE announces within hours of a horrific crime, that they have the perp based upon said perp's confession. Esp when said perp is an 8 year old child.

If this child is innocent, then his victimization has been compounded by a shoddy investigation. One that has painted his father as a possible abuser and him as a cold-blooded killer. If, otoh, he is guilty as charged, then, imho, we, as a society, might want to sit back and consider what it is about our current climate that is breeding killers at younger and younger ages.

ITA!!! I cannot get over this. This child was eight years old. EIGHT. To put in perspective, the average age that a child stops believing in Santa Claus is SEVEN AND A HALF.

This is a child.

 

[shadowraiths]

In the above article it says neighbors heard the shots and called the police, they were there immediately.

Indeed.

"Melnick said neighbors in the airport neighborhood reported hearing gunshots at 5:03 p.m." (WMI Central, 06 Nov 2008)

"Mr. Carlyon said the rifle produced only a “muffled, soft popping” sound, making it likely that Mr. Romans had no idea what had happened inside." (NYT Article, 10 Nov 2008)

"In a sign of the emotional and legal complexities of the case, police are pushing to have the boy tried as an adult even as they investigate possible abuse, Melnick said." (CNN, 08 Nov 2008)

"Chief Melnick said. “That’s what makes this case somewhat puzzling,” he said, adding that the court had ordered a psychological evaluation for the boy. “Our goal is to get him some help.” (NYT Article, 10 Nov 2008)

Imnsho, LE & the deputy atty might want to consider getting their "stories" straight if they plan to make psycho-legal history by exploiting this tragedy.

 

[colette]

I forgot the child went to the neighbor and said "my dad is dead". They called 911. The police got there in one minute. I'm sure they have looked at cell phone records, arrival time of the police, the neighbors 911 call and talked to the roomers wife about the cell call.

 

[noZme]

If the Mother left the state right after she found out what happened, it makes me wonder if she wasn't the guilty party. This is just my opinion. What kind of Mother would leave this child all alone.

that was the way I read it first but after checking another source, this is what I found:

from : http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=9314632
"Romero had full custody of the child. The boy's biological mother was visiting St. Johns over the weekend from Mississippi, and returned to Arizona after the shootings, Carlyon said."

(my emphasis)

 

[MeoW333]

"Police Chief Roy Melnick said over the weekend that police were looking into whether the boy might have been abused. He would not say who might be under scrutiny. The gag order was issued just before Melnick was to hold a news conference to discuss the case."

http://www.courierpostonline.com/article/20081111/NEWS01/81111017/1001/NEWS

 

[twinkiesmom]

My opinion is the boy believed that the dad was standing in the way of him being with his mother. He could have gotten that idea from her or just from spending time with her. The boy likely would not have had the knowledge or perspective as to why she was not the custodial parent....

The articles mention discipline and a lot of time spent hunting, fishing, and sports...I wonder how much affection this kid received living in an all-male household (sorry, un-PC).

Having been taught to kill at a young age was probably a factor in this crime.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

My opinion is the boy believed that the dad was standing in the way of him being with his mother. He could have gotten that idea from her or just from spending time with her. The boy likely would not have had the knowledge or perspective as to why she was not the custodial parent....

The articles mention discipline and a lot of time spent hunting, fishing, and sports...I wonder how much affection this kid received living in an all-male household (sorry, un-PC).

Having been taught to kill at a young age was probably a factor in this crime.

He wasn't in an all male household. He had a stepmother living there. She was most likely at work when this happened. And I am sure she was there for the two years they went together before marrying. I don't even think his coworker had lived with them very long.

It looks like he reacted to the spanking he got from his dad for getting bad grades. Strange on one of the local articles I read early on in the comment section, people from that area were already commenting that these murders had to do with the boy getting bad grades at school. Also I would think the father also may have put him on restriction until his grades improved.

It is heartbreaking how Mr. Romans was outside on the phone with his wife and the boy called him to come inside........he did as asked and was shot and killed. Talk about laying in wait...that is chilling.

imo

 

[Trino]

My opinion is the boy believed that the dad was standing in the way of him being with his mother. He could have gotten that idea from her or just from spending time with her. The boy likely would not have had the knowledge or perspective as to why she was not the custodial parent....

IMO the mother was a factor. The boy probably had no idea about the reasons for the divorce, but we know it's rare for a father to be awarded custody, which gives concern about the mother.

I found one article that said the boy, sitting next to his mother, swiveled and rocked in his chair as he was charged. Maybe to some this is typical of an 8 yr old? Maybe, but IMO it does not show deep concern about what happened.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I cannot imagine they'll be able to charge him as an adult, as I heard today they were intending to do. Anyone else hear this, too?

He is charged with two first degree homicides and will be tried as a juvenile.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IMO the mother was a factor. The boy probably had no idea about the reasons for the divorce, but we know it's rare for a father to be awarded custody, which gives concern about the mother.

I found one article that said the boy, sitting next to his mother, swiveled and rocked in his chair as he was charged. Maybe to some this is typical of an 8 yr old? Maybe, but IMO it does not show deep concern about what happened.

If she was sitting right there, I just cant fathom her not asking for custody of him. Maybe she knows if she does the Judge will delve into her background and will find she is not a suitable person to gain custody.

imoo

 

[SewingDeb]

I think the mother lives in Mississippi. Was she in the state when this happened or did she come when she found out about the murders? She was at the hearing but left without speaking to reporters.

 

[SewingDeb]

What about the grandmother? She is mentioned in one of the articles.

 

[MeoW333]

I think the mother lives in Mississippi. Was she in the state when this happened or did she come when she found out about the murders? She was at the hearing but left without speaking to reporters.

Supposedly (according to newspaper reports) she was there and had left before the shootings and then returned right back after the shootings.

 

[SewingDeb]

Thanks. That's what I thought.

 

[chiperoni]

I think that most of us agree that a child of eight should not be able to use a rifle or a gun easily or even at all. That is child neglect. So many big deals like spanking over low grades can cause an insecure eight year old to pick up a gun and kill. An eight year old has a small world.The priest said the father wanted his son to be able use a rifle and learn how to hunt while the stepmother said he should just have a BB gun. They obviously disagreed with each other.
If the youngster was talking to his friends about what was going on we'll find out but I know somethng was not right.

 

[Chezhire]

"Slain Dad Remembered As Good Father"

http://news.aol.com/article/slain-dad-remembered-as-good-father/241774

Doesn't discuss whether or not, at the present time, she has made any decision to ask for custody.