AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[Trino]

I think a lot of city-folk are using the term thrill-kill when they don't understand the culture. Killing prairie dogs is not something I would do, mind you, but it's acceptable to kill them in parts of the US.

The father waited two years before re-marrying, not exactly rushing into something. Maybe the domestic calls were related to his first marriage. The mother lives in Mississippi, AND the father had full custody - wonder why. This doesn't sound like a bad father to me. I don't know that the father or a man temporarily renting a room should automatically be considered abusers.

Certainly, the courts aren't going to send the boy home to his natural mother because it's out of state. I doubt the step-mother would take custody.

 

[ginzy]

this reminds me of Micheal Crowe for some reason. I'm not sure why, but it does.
Micheal was accused of killing his sister after a 3 day interogation with police, no parents, no attorney, He finally confessed to the murder although he did not do it, nor was there any real physical evidence to cooroberate that confession. The LE interogated 2 of Michaels friends who LE said gave enough info to warrant an arrest.

Micheal was 14.

This boy is 8.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/not_guilty/coerced_confessions/6.html

 

[MeoW333]

Yep, sure they use the old line of "behind close doors" all the time. Sensationalism sells and it is a favorite for defense attorneys.

It is like trying to prove a negative.

They are right ........no one knows what goes on behind closed doors but they sure do push that something was going on even when it is just as likely that there wasn't.

But sinister titillations boost ratings when they infer without proof to any of it.

imoo

Ocean, i agree with you on sensationalism selling and boosting ratings and all that. I just would like to hear what the police reports say on why they were called to the home on domestic violence reports is all.

I am in no way attacking you. I just would like to hear what the little fellow has to say as to why he would do such a thing.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Oceanblueeyes; it's not a slap in the face to families of hunters. Those are families; the boy came from a broken home, his parents were divorced.
We already know the police were called to the home in the past at least twice for domestic violence.
It's obviously not a case of a complete loving family; mother & father & son living together happily; as may be the case with those who have come from other hunting families.
My grandfather was an avid hunter (yes he only killed for food and brought the meat/carcass home); and we have no murderers on that side of the family. His parents also remained together until natural deaths and kept all 6 of their children in line.
An 8 year old is a child, children do not just up and kill 2 people for no reason; if they do it's likely we'll see them have some sort of disciplinary record. The boy wasn't a stranger to violence. We have him hunting prairie dogs for sport; possibly witnessing domestic violence. Something inside the little guy snapped in order for him to kill his father and their roomer. The child would have shown previous bad behavior in school otherwise. Children will act out in kindergarten or younger.
Two men lost their lives, and yes, they are victims.
An 8 year old boy is also a victim, in this case. Any child who will pick up a gun (that he was trained to use) and kill 2 adults; most likely has a reason for that and there is more to the story we aren't hearing yet.
Being that he's hunted before and his father was an avid hunter; well then, we know the boy should have respect for the weapon and how to use it.
The question is, why would he murder his own father and their roomer? Normal families of children who hunt don't do that. In this case, there is something else in the equation that led the boy to commit murder.

Well it might not be a slap in the face to you, Meow but it is highly offensive to me and the people I have known all my life that has done the same. And broken homes have not just started happening or divorces but have happened for decades.

How do we know he hunted prairie dogs for sport? I highly doubt the AZ DNR would list them to be legally hunted just for a sport. They are considered varmints just like we have huge moles and armadillos here that destroy acres and acres of earth by destroying the root systems in lawns and crops. How do we know that prairie dogs didn't plague that rural area?

The domestic dispute calls could have been conflicts with his ex wife years ago. He waited two years before he even remarried his present wife. It could have been an argument over the taking of property from the home between the two who were divorcing. We just don't know. If it involved the boy then CPS would have received a complaint notice.

I also find that he didn't just wake up one day and decide to do this one day as absurd thinking. Of course he did wake up one day and decide to do this. LE said he confessed that he planned it. That doesn't make him different than any other murderer who has their "reason" and wakes up one day and decides to carry it through. They all have their "reasons."

 

[ginzy]

i would like to see the video of LE questioning him.

 

[twinkiesmom]

I think a lot of city-folk are using the term thrill-kill when they don't understand the culture. Killing prairie dogs is not something I would do, mind you, but it's acceptable to kill them in parts of the US.

I live in a rural area and have friends who are part of the hunting community. My friends who hunt keep their guns locked up when they're not hunting. Their children do not have access to the weapons except under strict supervision.

This 8-year-old was clearly not ready to be killing prairie dogs for sport or population reduction.

 

[MissieMt]

Yep, sure they use the old line of "behind close doors" all the time. Sensationalism sells and it is a favorite for defense attorneys.

It is like trying to prove a negative.

They are right ........no one knows what goes on behind closed doors but they sure do push that something was going on even when it is just as likely that there wasn't.

But sinister titillations boost ratings when they infer without proof to any of it.

imoo

OBE I have to respectfully disagree on this one. I think many of us are wanting to believe there must have been some type of abuse because it is so hard to believe an 8 yr old boy ( I still call mine my baby) would kill his father and friend in cold blood. I have not seen any reports stating he came from a perfect, loving home where there were no reasons for him to want to retaliate. I have only seen reports that state that there were domestic complaints in the past. Also, it seems LE would like us to believe that he willingly gave a detailed confession-but they still don't have a motive. Why would a child confess so "willingly" and then stop short at giving a reason? I know when my kiddos fess up to something they figure they are probably already in trouble so they will give the reason why they did it.
I honestly don't think whether or not this kid was from a hunting family has anything to do with this. The guns were left where he had access to them-and that was the fatal mistake.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OBE I have to respectfully disagree on this one. I think many of us are wanting to believe there must have been some type of abuse because it is so hard to believe an 8 yr old boy ( I still call mine my baby) would kill his father and friend in cold blood. I have not seen any reports stating he came from a perfect, loving home where there were no reasons for him to want to retaliate. I have only seen reports that state that there were domestic complaints in the past. Also, it seems LE would like us to believe that he willingly gave a detailed confession-but they still don't have a motive. Why would a child confess so "willingly" and then stop short at giving a reason? I know when my kiddos fess up to something they figure they are probably already in trouble so they will give the reason why they did it.
I honestly don't think whether or not this kid was from a hunting family has anything to do with this. The guns were left where he had access to them-and that was the fatal mistake.

I do concur with you, Missie, yes people want to believe that somehow his father made him do this. I think that is only normal and much easier to digest for if we believe that then we do not have to look deep into what the actual truth might turnout to be. It is much more fearful and unsettling to think that children can possibly kill for a foolish nonsensical reason as that strikes true fear in the heart of parents.

Sometimes kids can react over the slightest of things. Maybe he had loads of fun with his mom when she came (it usually is much more exciting for the child when the other parent spends time with them because they take them places and may smother them with gifts and added attention). Maybe this has nothing at all to do with abuse but about him seeing his dad standing in the way from living with his mother. Who really knows......none of us do but imo there is a chance it could be just that simple. Senseless and trivial.

I did not hear that he did not give them a motive. I thought they said they would not be discussing what he told them but that he has confessed. I have never heard LE announce motive and certainly not this early on whether they have a confession to why or not.

I will read the articles again.

imoo

 

[MissieMt]

I did read in at least one article that they still had no motive. Right now it's next to impossible to go back and look at the articles, etc. on here because the server is so busy due to the C.A. threads. I will try to find that info for you asap OBE.

 

[twinkiesmom]

http://www.kpho.com/news/17946277/detail.html

snip:
Additionally, the attorneys said nobody has stepped forward to take custody of the boy.

"We've got an 8 year-old client who is sitting in a detention facility who needs someone to take him home, and we haven't found that person," Wood said. "The stepmother didn't want to take custody of him. His mother hasn't taken custody of him.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Snipped:
St. Johns Police Chief, Roy Melnick speculated a motive.

"I think it was on his mind a long time, and then a trigger just triggered it, and the child said: I've had enough. I'm gonna take care of it today. We certainly have to take a look at physical and emotional abuse, we have to look maybe there was any domestic violence in the home that he might have witnessed, or there was discipline that was given to him, may be it was more strict than it should have been," said Melnick.

http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=9320428&nav=14RT

 

[Elf8702]

http://www.kpho.com/news/17946277/detail.html

snip:
Additionally, the attorneys said nobody has stepped forward to take custody of the boy.

"We've got an 8 year-old client who is sitting in a detention facility who needs someone to take him home, and we haven't found that person," Wood said. "The stepmother didn't want to take custody of him. His mother hasn't taken custody of him.

The fact that no one is there for him is very telling. His father appears to be the only person he was close to and he killed him. His mother left the state after she found out what happened. How very sad.

 

[MeoW333]

Well it might not be a slap in the face to you, Meow but it is highly offensive to me and the people I have known all my life that has done the same. And broken homes have not just started happening or divorces but have happened for decades.

How do we know he hunted prairie dogs for sport? I highly doubt the AZ DNR would list them to be legally hunted just for a sport. They are considered varmints just like we have huge moles and armadillos here that destroy acres and acres of earth by destroying the root systems in lawns and crops. How do we know that prairie dogs didn't plague that rural area?

The domestic dispute calls could have been conflicts with his ex wife years ago. He waited two years before he even remarried his present wife. It could have been an argument over the taking of property from the home between the two who were divorcing. We just don't know. If it involved the boy then CPS would have received a complaint notice.

I also find that he didn't just wake up one day and decide to do this one day as absurd thinking. Of course he did wake up one day and decide to do this. LE said he confessed that he planned it. That doesn't make him different than any other murderer who has their "reason" and wakes up one day and decides to carry it through. They all have their "reasons."

Ocean, you have just straight out offended me.
I told you i was not attacking you or your hunting community family. I told about how my grandfather was a hunter. So please stop taking things so personally and throwing them back at me. I do understand that depending on where someone geographically lives; that will determine whether or not they understand the "hunting" debate on this thread. What some people may not fathom doing; may appear ordinary for other walks of life.
.. and yes, my grandparents ate squirrel as well during the great depression.

For some reason you're so quick to see this boy hung.
You need to understand that many people may not see hunting from the same perspective as you.
Regardless of the situation; to stay on topic, the boy's background in hunting shows even more that he knows to kill something it is fatal things do not come back from the dead; instead he used his hunting ability to take care of a problem that was bothering him. Only right now, we're not sure what the problem was; only who was involved in it.

 

[MeoW333]

It's very sad that in such a small town; with a lot of people kin to each other, no one will take him in; especially his birth mother, who was just in town.
IMO, maybe he was emotionally abused and used murder as a means to end the abuse.
A sociopath would show prior signs. If this boy had them; one would think they'd be in at least his school records, or neighbors' or relatives would have spoken up by now. Small town; close knit.
No one has said anything negative about the boy, the town is in shock.

 

[colomom]

My concerns with this case are related to the emotional state of this boy. I am reading about divorce/separation of his parents and a mother that has effectively abandoned him. I believe these life events can be so extremely damaging to a child's psyche. Even if he was not "abused" he must have been very disturbed to act out in this manner. I think locking up an 8 year old child could never be the "right" thing to do.

Reading about how no one will come for him just breaks my heart.

I also agree with the poster who said leaving the firearms accessible was a fatal error.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Ocean, you have just straight out offended me.
I told you i was not attacking you or your hunting community family. I told about how my grandfather was a hunter. So please stop taking things so personally and throwing them back at me. I do understand that depending on where someone geographically lives; that will determine whether or not they understand the "hunting" debate on this thread. What some people may not fathom doing; may appear ordinary for other walks of life.
.. and yes, my grandparents ate squirrel as well during the great depression.

For some reason you're so quick to see this boy hung.
You need to understand that many people may not see hunting from the same perspective as you.
Regardless of the situation; to stay on topic, the boy's background in hunting shows even more that he knows to kill something it is fatal things do not come back from the dead; instead he used his hunting ability to take care of a problem that was bothering him. Only right now, we're not sure what the problem was; only who was involved in it.

Then I sincerely apologize that I offended you. That was not my intention.

I am not trying to hang this boy nor am I trying to hang the victims that were murdered before all the facts are known.

I do believe he should be accountable for what he has done but that is for a Judge to decide, not me.

If his dad just disciplined him because of a bad report card or something by putting him on restriction from using his favorite video game or something he liked then yes, I do think that is absolutely no reason at all to do what he did.

Why is this mother not stepping forward to take custody of her own child? That is just plain weird to me. Is she also afraid to take him home with her?

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The fact that no one is there for him is very telling. His father appears to be the only person he was close to and he killed him. His mother left the state after she found out what happened. How very sad.

Ron Wood, the boy's attorney stated this.

Wood echoed Melnick's assertion that the boy does not appear to have been abused.

"At this point in time, we haven't seen anything indicating abuse," Wood said. "We haven't heard of anything; we're not aware of anything."

I thought they said earlier that the mother had returned to AZ from MS after the murders.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Snipped:
St. Johns Police Chief, Roy Melnick speculated a motive.

"I think it was on his mind a long time, and then a trigger just triggered it, and the child said: I've had enough. I'm gonna take care of it today. We certainly have to take a look at physical and emotional abuse, we have to look maybe there was any domestic violence in the home that he might have witnessed, or there was discipline that was given to him, may be it was more strict than it should have been," said Melnick.

http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=9320428&nav=14RT

It does seem like he has family there.

From your link.

Carlos, Diaz a relative of the eight-year-old also spoke up about the allegations

"He was always a good kid. You know very active a very nice kid. This is just shocking I would never think that something would happen like this," said Diaz.

 

[spector]

It's very possible we may never really know what happened in that home. How could the mother just leave? I wonder what she said to LE.

 

[Beyond Belief]

I am wondering if this is as simple as the child hating the men for killing animals. Most kids love animals. He hunted them just like he was forced to hunt the prairie dogs.